Where can we find the 111 STR’f all of them. (From AlFaraj to the Hawiye guy) ?
Sorry for the late reply.
The Samaron Y111 sample is accessible on the Somali T FTDNA page. So is the Al Faraj, it is a 67 STR test, however, it is sufficient for comparison purposes as there are enough slowly mutating STR's to use. The 111 Muuse Cabdalle sample is also available, I believe, on the Somali FTDNA page. The above, your 111 STR'S and the Surre one are the only Somali ones I know of.
The Hawiye T STR data is available in Iacovacci's paper. You can find his paper by doing a Google search. However, it is not 111 STR's.
Esteban collates most, possibly even all, T samples published in academic papers etc. He also has access to individual STR test results which he does not obviously share for privacy purposes. However, he is very helpful when one wants a breakdown of who is closer to them as has an in-depth understanding on the mutation rate of T STR's. I also possess a rudimentary understanding of how to use STR calculators but I defer to him for in-depth analysis as I am not that well versed in the varied T STR mutations. However, if you put the time in and have access to STR data, you can do it yourself. FTDNA has a colour coded guide to the mutation rates of STR's for different haplogroups. You can crosscheck this with mutation rates published by other bodies etc.
@anonimo
If you’re disregarding historical manuscripts describing the genealogy of the Isaak tribe then the oldest historical reference of a stand-alone Isaak lineage is derived from Amir Sharmarka Ali Saleh in 1854. This individual of authority traces his ancestry to Sheikh Ishaak and not to Dir.
Somali poetry is based on alliteration and in old Somali the word Dir means people. In that context the poet states that his nemesis is causing problem between his people and Darod. The poet doesn’t mention lineage so Dir the clan can be excluded. In the same context “Dir Rooble” would mean “Rain bearing people” and not Dir the clan.
Haji Ali Shermake's lineage was considered laughable by Burton. He also added in the same book that there was contradictory evidence as to whether the Isaaq were Dir or of Hashemite ancestry. Other Historical material collected around the same time also allude to the Dir ancestry of Isaaqs so why be selective when engaging in a historical debate? The onus is on you to provide evidence of a Sheekh called 'Isxaaq' whose history is documented 800 years ago as you alluded to. Was this Sheekh Bani Hashim by any chance as claimed by a large section of the Isxaaq? If it is the case that an Arab Sheikh called Isxaaq settled among Dir clansmen in the North as claimed by the purveyors of the Sheekh Isxaaq myth, then it is logical to assert the Isaaq T's are just Sheegaad Dirs who claimed the lineage of this Arab Holy man as they are clearly share an ancestry with Dir T's!
Please, I am not here for FKD, my arguments are evidence based, not my own personal interpretation of facts. You are not a linguist cut from the same cloth as the pre-eminent Isaaq linguist Muuse Galal. He collaborated with Andrzejewski in their peer reviewed journal, A Somali Poetic Combat. The Gubba Chain of poems were translated by Muuse Galal and it is clearly highlighted that the Dir clan is referenced in the extract that I provided. For any uninformed readers who have chanced upon this debate via some Google search etc., read Andrzejewski book and all will be clear. There are intellectually dishonest individuals on Somali forums that seek to hide the truth.
As for the Damal Muuse, like I said they paid blood money with my clan, they always identified themselves as Dir hence the name of their clan 'Dir Rooble'. They weren't our Sheegaads/Soo Rac and were only part of our Dia group.
@anonimo
A handful of individuals claiming something doesn’t make their message the gospel. The overwhelming majority of Isaak reject a Dir identity.
We are not talking about a random group of individuals, we are talking about your traditional elders and politicians, individuals who are meant to be representatives of the masses. It does not get more damning than that. As for random individuals, like yourself, a quick search through Somali speaking FKD contributors on Social Media will present countless of Isaaqs identifying as Dir. I ain't claiming the majority identify with Dir but where there is smoke, there is fire.
@anonimo
Unless you’ve confirmed that the individual is of Somali origin I don’t think you can exclude any possibility of T-BY181012 entering the Afar gene pool around the same time it entered the Somali gene pool (~ 200-2 BCE).
It’s forbidden for noble Somali clans to use bow and arrow in warfare (just like the Afar), only Madiban, Tumal and similar castes use bow and arrow. The assimilated Somalis were most likely from these castes.
Unlike you, I do not make make sweeping statements hence why I have not asserted what you have insinuated above. All I did was highlight the ignorance of your claim that the Afars carry the Somali specific subclade when the current data contradicts your claim. Only one OUTLIER Afar sample has so far been proven to belong our subclade.
As for archery being ignoble. Many so called noble clans employed archery, for instance, the Abgaal and Biimaal. I think there is even a reference to Somali archers among some of the clans in Futuh Al Habasha.
@anonimo
SPN derived estimates are far superior and I don’t think the Isaak-Gadabursi/Ciisa split will be recent. I don’t think it will be far removed from 1850ybp and despite two outliers Isaak will turn out a legit.
I agree SNP derived estimates are better, did I ever dispute this? I did not make any concrete assertions about the TMRCA, I only checked the claim you have been peddling that the Surre sample is representative of the Ciise, Samaron etc.
What evidence do you have that it will be far removed from 1800ybp? I am being the devil's advocate. You have no evidence to argue for or against. Neither do I! Comments are free but facts are sacred (C.P. Scott). You only possess the former!
As for the possible Isaaq outliers, I presented them for the sake of argument. I already said that I have a hunch that young clans that bear Muslim names such as Isaaq etc. will turn out to be genetic clan families irrespective of haplogroup divesrity. Just a hunch though.