Short-term Marriage in Somalia: Ethical question about marriage, sex, zina, and savagery

[Prince of Lasanod]

Why doesn't your "friend" have a marriage here in the West?

What is he afraid of, ACCOUNTABILITY? That her brothers will knock his teeth out and put him in the hospital? So he has to resort to going to a failed state to have sex with poor women?

What a BUM and LOSER "he" is.

 

[arawelo 2.0]

I agree that he is morally corrupt. But we are trying to see what is fair here. If the girl is trying to deceive him, then is it okay for him to deceive her? Of course, she could just be trying to get herself pregnant, so that she can use the kid to extract funds from him. So the risk is present for both players. She risks her virginity and being seen as 'used goods' and he risks being bound in the marriage forever if the condom breaks.

But from a Islamic perspective, is short-term marriage to avoid committing zina okay? If it is, then shouldn't our moral compass be aligned with the religion rather than away from it.

In your view, would you rather him commit zina with her, or get married to her?

Don't shoot the messenger.

how exactly is the girl trying to decieve him? its not like she'll promise him something he won't get, whereas he is manipulating her to believe she'll be entering into a normal marriage with the possibility of happily ever after. yes she might be under the impression that he'll take her with him and its not like that is some secret that she's hiding. he is well aware of what most girls who marry diaspora guys want and that is a western passport.

'extract funds' kulaha
she is not going to be expecting more than she needs and if he marries her, its his obligation to take care of her.

he is the only one deceiving and lying.

 

[Mohamud]

It seems that you are saying that is fair game.

Stance noted.

no it is not fair game wtf. your friend is still the shittier individual in this scenario. you don't do shitty things because other people do shitty things. that's not how ethics works, and that's exactly the argument i was using for why the woman in question wouldn't be absolved of her own moral failings. your buddy's still a moron and even outside the scope of islam he's acting a fool.

how exactly is the girl trying to decieve him? its not like she'll promise him something he won't get, whereas he is manipulating her to believe she'll be entering into a normal marriage with the possibility of happily ever after. yes she might be under the impression that he'll take her with him and its not like that is some secret that she's hiding. he is well aware of what most girls who marry diaspora guys want and that is a western passport.

'extract funds' kulaha
she is not going to be expecting more than she needs and if he marries her, its his obligation to take care of her.

he is the only one deceiving and lying.

in his scenario she is actively deceiving him wtf is this logic?

i don't think you got the premise here. they BOTH have ulterior motives. he doesn't actually want a marriage in this instance and neither does she, but the moral ambiguity comes from their individual gain in the relationship.

like what is he promising her in this relationship? nothing she actually wants. which is pretty much the same from her end. the only difference is we can kinda empathize with her and understand how she got to her mindset whereas he's a bahal. but they're both literally deceiving each other because neither is being honest about what they genuinely want.

her entire plan is riding on the success of the marriage for at least a few years whereas he can bounce anytime. the time-frame and actual gain is irrelevant when we're discussing motivation. that shit only matters with who we empathize with more.

but i guess technically you mean from a holistically islamic perspective whereas he is a male and has way more of an obligation here. which is true. but from the outside perspective of just regular ethics, they both have problems here.

you're basically saying he's even more in the wrong because he already knows women will actively be trying to deceive men but that doesn't absolve them of responsibility.

 

[Madara x]

That fact that you're trying to make your friend and this woman seem as if they're on equal footing is laughable.

First of all let's not kid ourselves here Somalia is still a 3rd world country there are very little options for a woman. So of course she'll do whatever she can to pull herself out of poverty. The risks are not even that great for your friend it's 2017 contraceptives exist. But once you take a woman's virginity you can't undo that. She'll will be seen as "used goods" by every member of society including her family.

He is a man that lives in the U.K. if he commited 'zina' all he has to do is repent a few times and then his sins are forgiven. Even if people found out nobody would judge him to harshly he's a man they'll say.
But for the woman it's so much harder even though she was married she's the one all the blame falls on and she'll be regarded as less than for faults that aren't her own.
They are not on equal footing you're friend is a wealthy educated westerner while this woman is not he'll get everything out of this marriage. He gets a few weeks of pleasure and just discards her while her life is probably ruined forever.

I agree that the risks are not even at all. The girl has everything to lose and the guy has very little to lose. What he is considering doing is morally reprehensible on many levels. Almost like colonial predatory behavior.

But still, your last part got to me.

Do you really think that it is okay for a guy to commit zina?

Do you know the punishment for it? Its no light matter.

 

[Madara x]

Nothing wrong with it. If the brother can afford it he should marry the one in Somalia and find a second in the west. Why divorce her, it's not going cost much to send her money.

This is a savage, but i'm guessing Islamically accurate response.

 

[arawelo 2.0]

But she is expecting to make it overseas, because she is actively seducing him to ensure her passage to the west.

She her hopes are based on her deceptive activities. Which make them morally reprehensible.

She is trying to take advantage of him, so is it okay for him to take advantage of her? That is the question

if 'your friend' is one ugly nigga, and she throws herself at him, then its easy to tell what she wants.

if he is a normal guy who says he is looking for marriage, and she accepts his marriage proposal, then how the hell can he what her intentions are.

at the end of the day, HE is the one asking the girl to marry him. she isnt seducing him or forcing him to do anything.

 

[EternalLightX]

Women are treated so harshy in patrachial societie's, the term 'used goods' wow that's sad. Women cannot express their desires without being labeled hores or used goods. But a man can run a race track of women and be let off. Double standard's are a wicked game in this world.

 

[Daanyeer]

Her life will not be ruined as long as he pays her a reasonable amount in maher. ($500 to $1000). This works out for everyone. Encourage your friend to do it. Don't listen to the feminists and beta males

 

[Madara x]

It's absolutely not a blurry line, I've literally just posted ahadeeth where Rasululah (SAW) prohibited temporary marriage. It seems your "friend" doesn't seem to care about what the religion says, and simply wants to have sex with women in a third world country because he is incompetent and a loser.

I agree that he is a incompetent loser. And it is so easy to just say that this is haram and move on.

But there is a grey area here.

No one can see a persons intention. Intentions change. People deceive themselves all the time into liking things or situations that they know they won't like later on.

There is a deeper question here: how can we judge whether a person wants to have a temporary marriage or a long term one? Some people jump right into a marriage because they find a person attractive.

For such people, even if they don't intend to enter into a temporary marriage, their lack of due diligence in assessing the character of their spouse, shows that they're in it just for the sex.

Ignoring the interpersonal work that needs to be done prior to marriage, or simply marrying to have sex, is pretty much the same as indirectly choosing to have a temporary marriage. In other words, deceiving yourself into believing that your marriage will not fail, even when it lacks a proper foundation, is the same as choosing a temporary marriage. What do you think?

 

[Mohamud]

I agree that he is a incompetent loser. And it is so easy to just say that this is haram and move on.

But there is a grey area here.

No one can see a persons intention. Intentions change. People deceive themselves all the time into liking things or situations that they know they won't like later on.

There is a deeper question here: how can we judge whether a person wants to have a temporary marriage or a long term one? Some people jump right into a marriage because they find a person attractive.

For such people, even if they don't intend to enter into a temporary marriage, their lack of due diligence in assessing the character of their spouse, shows that they're in it just for the sex.

Ignoring the interpersonal work that needs to be done prior to marriage, or simply marrying to have sex, is pretty much the same as indirectly choosing to have a temporary marriage. In other words, deceiving yourself into believe that your marriage will not fail, even when it lacks the proper foundation, is the same as choosing a temporary marriage. What do you think?

you...have a bad grasp on ethics and morality my friend.

 

[Madara x]

Some scholars consider marrying with the intention to divorce is an invalid marriage(mutah) ie. zina . Other scholars say that the marriage is valid but its haram due to the deceit and betrayal involved. Mut'ah(temporary marriage) is what some shias do, trying to find loopholes in the religion to have fun but its an obvious haram.

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https://islamqa.info/en/111841

Looking at it from logical perspective: Ask your friend how he'd like it if someone did that to his sister/mother/daugther. Morally you can't cut ties with his responsibility. Only thinking of women as sex objects isn't a good mindset either.

That was a deep answer. I agree with you.

So for you, it is morally reprehensible.

Stance noted.

 

[Madara x]

After a few weeks of bashal with her I'd fake my death and get out of the country immediately, she'll still feel a bit grieved but it's better than being scammed plus she won't hate you for the rest of her life. Problem solved

Savage shit right here

 

[dhegdheer]

She's marrying OP's 'friend' because yes he's well off and more likely to offer her and any future offspring they have with a better life, by virtue of his bassabor. Isn't that his islamic duty? now how exactly is she taking advantage of him???

Marriage is a contract... Obviously the good sis needs to be clever about it like why else would u marry some dhaqan celis neef if he doesn't bring anything to the table? for love??? nah in return she'll do her house wifely duties

@Mohamud tell me what noble intentions are worth marrying for

 

[Assata]

I agree that the risks are not even at all. The girl has everything to lose and the guy has very little to lose. What he is considering doing is morally reprehensible on many levels. Almost like colonial predatory behavior.

But still, your last part got to me.

Do you really think that it is okay for a guy to commit zina?

Do you know the punishment for it? Its no light matter.

In this case yes I would say it's better for him to commit zina instead of ruining that poor woman's life. He can repent. I think it says something about him to think he can ruin someone else's life but doesn't want the guilt that he commited zina on his conscience.

As a modern woman however don't expect me to champion for him as marriage material after he commited zina he's not. If most of us are strong enough to control his urges than he should be too. He should act like an adult and not a selfish little child who only thinks of himself and doesn't even worry about how his actions will impact others.


I don't even know this man and I'm so disappointed with him.

 

[Madara x]

how exactly is the girl trying to decieve him? its not like she'll promise him something he won't get, whereas he is manipulating her to believe she'll be entering into a normal marriage with the possibility of happily ever after. yes she might be under the impression that he'll take her with him and its not like that is some secret that she's hiding. he is well aware of what most girls who marry diaspora guys want and that is a western passport.

'extract funds' kulaha
she is not going to be expecting more than she needs and if he marries her, its his obligation to take care of her.

he is the only one deceiving and lying.

The act of seducing someone because you want to take advantage of them financially is the deception that i am referring to here. But i see what your'e saying.

 

[arawelo 2.0]

in his scenario she is actively deceiving him wtf is this logic?

i don't think you got the premise here. they BOTH have ulterior motives. he doesn't actually want a marriage in this instance and neither does she, but the moral ambiguity comes from their individual gain in the relationship.

like what is he promising her in this relationship? nothing she actually wants. which is pretty much the same from her end. the only difference is we can kinda empathize with her and understand how she got to her mindset whereas he's a bahal. but they're both literally deceiving each other because neither is being honest about what they genuinely want.

the only difference is her entire plan is riding on the success of the marriage for at least a few years whereas he can bounce anytime. the time-frame and actual gain is irrelevant when we're discussing motivation. that shit only matters with who we empathize with more.

but i guess technically you mean from a holistically islamic perspective whereas he is a male and has way more of an obligation here. which is true. but from the outside perspective of just regular ethics, they both have problems here.

you're basically saying he's even more in the wrong because he already knows women will actively be trying to deceive men but that doesn't absolve them of responsibility.

waryaahe this isnt some romantic movie or western style relationship where the guy and the girl should fall madly in love before considering marriage.

most Somali mary first and expect love to come second. if any guy, whether local or diaspora asks a girl back home to marry him she'll probably say yes without much thought to what she is getting out of the marriage or whether or not they are compatible.

she is not deceiving him in any way. he already knows her intentions, and he even has the choice to say no if she asks him to sponsor her.

by your logic, no man or woman from the diaspora should ever go home to get married since everyone back home is conniving and only in it for some monatery gain.

 

[DeathWish]

I have a friend who is going to Somalia.

He knows that when he goes back, girls will throw themselves at him because he has a British passport and hes financially good. And his family is telling him to settle down in Somalia.

He told me that if he finds a hot girl, he will marry her simply because he needs to satisfy his desires;
after all, the religion does say that one should marry rather than commit zina.

But he also said that he will probably eventually leave Somalia and go back to the u.k; and once he returns to the u.k, he will [without doubt] cut ties with the girl because he has no intention of sponsoring anyone or sending money back to her.

Here is the question: If a sexy girl tries to take advantage of him and seduce him because of his wealth and status, then is it okay [morally] for him to marry her simply for sex [knowing that he will eventually divorce her]?

In other words, if she is trying to take advantage of him [financially], then is it okay for him to take advantage of her [sexually]? And more importantly, is this situation good or evil according to the deen.
After all, zina is being avoided, albeit for all the wrong reasons

Don't worry about these people. Your friend is intelligent. She will try to use him, and he will be done using her.

That is life. It is halaal for him to get married as many times as he wants.

If I were younger, I would get married to Somali girls in Somalia and divorce them the second I saw a more beautiful one.

 

[EternalLightX]

A man cannot control his urges it's like telling a dog to not chew abone that is infront of them. Men will be men

 

[Madara x]

if 'your friend' is one ugly nigga, and she throws herself at him, then its easy to tell what she wants.

if he is a normal guy who says he is looking for marriage, and she accepts his marriage proposal, then how the hell can he what her intentions are.

at the end of the day, HE is the one asking the girl to marry him. she isnt seducing him or forcing him to do anything.

Solid clarification here.

But seduction is always at play. Men ask the question, but various events lead to that moment. Seduction is a process. Let's leave that alone.

Tell me this, if a girl swerves on him aggressively and consistently, even after he says that he won't be in the city for long, what should he do then: Commit zina or wifey her?

 

[arawelo 2.0]

The act of seducing someone because you want to take advantage of them financially is the deception that i am referring to here. But i see what your'e saying.

but how will she financially take advantage of him?

she isnt expecting him to fly her around the world and buy her and her family a house or any other ludicrous things.

at most, he'll be sending her few hundred dollars a month. As her husband that is his obligation. if it isnt your friend any other man who marries her is expected to do the same. she might be slightly better off if she marries your friend rather than a local guy, but that is not deception, its being smart.

on the other hand, your friend is planning on ruining her life for few weeks of pleasure.