Why Should I Believe in Somaliweyn?

[Tucking_Fypo]

Dont believe in somalia/weyne as its just a product of colonialism, There have never been such a thing in history and can never happen, the whole idea about a somali nation came during colonialism but before that every mans tribe was his nation.

Every man for himself is the only way forward.

 

[Bahal]

They said the same thing about weak ass Germany and Italy when they was the playground of Europe with a gorillion little principalities and mini states gettin buttfucked by France and Spain. They was bein played just like the Somalis, little pawns being used against each other and frequently "inviting" foreign troops who only lookin out for they own pockets

History is against you, a Greater Somali Republic is inevitable

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you tbh I had just had yet another conversation with someone here where they eventually admitted to being so hell bent on the idea of union that they were happy to see many people die, which would in effect make an honest union impossible, but they don't care. It's happened a few times that's why I'm getting stressed

"how do we unite as a people"

People should first learn to actively avoid conflict at virtually all costs. I think the war mongers should be shamed cultually. If that makes sense. With enough peace over enough years, the natural kinship will become more dominant. In the mean time, I'm not sure, I use to think the diaspora and the young would be better at finding unity and peace than older generation, giving that so many are born and raised outside of the milieu, now I'm not so sure.
how can we as people unite? we shouldnt even include regions that are indepent, declared independence or occupied. Just Somalia on its own.how do
how can we as people unite? we shouldnt even include regions that are indepent, declared independence or occupied. Just Somalia on its own.

You are liar.

We will never recognize one Sub hebel in north somalia. Forget it if you think we will recognize one subclan of Dir in north Somalia as independent country. UN knows the reality about the subclan of dir seceding when all other somalis wants unity.

I prefer eternal hatred and eternal war between us and traitorous sub hebel in north somalia.
To see eternal clash between the gaaloraac traitorous sub hebel in north somalia versus other somalis is more beloved to me, more dear to me than to see recognition for amxaarkalkaal snmland.

 

[RedStar]

I'd recommend you spent some time in Dire Dawa or other occupied Somali cities. I'll elaborate on what I mean later on.

 

[Waranle]

I'd recommend you spent some time in Dire Dawa or other occupied Somali cities. I'll elaborate on what I mean later on.

I recommend you to shut the f*ck up boi

 

[54321]

They said the same thing about weak ass Germany and Italy when they was the playground of Europe with a gorillion little principalities and mini states gettin buttfucked by France and Spain. They was bein played just like the Somalis, little pawns being used against each other and frequently "inviting" foreign troops who only lookin out for they own pockets

History is against you, a Greater Somali Republic is inevitable

As I said somewhere else, I'm not in inherent disagreement with the concept, and I actually I agree that it is inevitable sometime in the future. I'm talking about today, when people are clannish, still hold grudges and are unforgiving, politicians and tribal elders are corrupt etc etc Is there a reason to get behind it right now, when it will more than likely just inflame all of these issues and make actual unity more difficult in the future?

 

[54321]

I'd recommend you spent some time in Dire Dawa or other occupied Somali cities. I'll elaborate on what I mean later on.

Okay.

 

[Southsidemj1]

@Bahal dont forget germans wanted to go against the status quo whereas somali leaders today their highest achievement is a government job and a few trips to addis and they are satisfied. How many somali leaders do you know that have criticized amison, un, ethiopia and kenya? Even our most outspoken leaders wouldnt dream of it. We wont be doing what the germans anytime soon. Good example though

 

[Tucking_Fypo]

Germans have always seeked the grreater Germania and been hardcore nationalists ever since their first struggles against the roman empire, somalis on the other have dont have a common history of unity or seeking unity and see their clans and regions as their nations. Somalia was created by the UN not be its people thats why we should go back to pre-colonial statuses and start developing from there.

 

[TheSayid]

Somaliweyn is unislamic we should advocate for a caliphate United ummah based on Islam not ethnicity.

but states based on qabil are okay somahan?

 

[Cognitivedissonance]

but states based on qabil are okay somahan?

Where have you been for the past 25 years?

Don't you know that we've been killing each other indiscriminately over tribe?

I whole heartedly support shariah that's why in the Somalia federal constitution it states that we can't adopt a law which goes against Allahs law.

Currently we have these bacteria & fungus that are called al shish kebab & we need to burn them till they evaporate.

The Somali people choose federal states who I'm I to refuse as long as it doesn't go against Islam.

Federal states are a reality somaliweyn is a pipe dream, caliphate is more realistic in my humble opinion.

 

[RedStar]

@Orgnzm Somalis face an existential threat from the south and west. If global warming, deforestation, and the droughts don't kill us, then the manipulative and expansionist mindset of our neighbours will definitely finish us off. I was going to tell you an anecdote from my time in Dire Dawa, but it would most likely bore you because you think it isn't relevant to Somaliland. I assure if we don't unite, they will break us up into 100s of tiny states and pick us off one by one. The Abyssinians did the same thing to the Muslims before Ahmed Gurey, and his generals united them and fought back.

 

[54321]

@Orgnzm Somalis face an existential threat from the south and west. If global warming, deforestation, and the droughts don't kill us, then the manipulative and expansionist mindset of our neighbours will definitely finish us off. I was going to tell you an anecdote from my time in Dire Dawa, but it would most likely bore you because you think it isn't relevant to Somaliland. I assure if we don't unite, they will break us up into 100s of tiny states and pick us off one by one. The Abyssinians did the same thing to the Muslims before Ahmed Gurey, and his generals united them and fought back.

I don't think neighbouring countries will be able to kill Somali's off as I don't think the world really works that way anymore. The issue that I have, is that many of these things can be addressed without full national/political union. Somali regional countries and states can have defence agreements, agreements in regards to the environment etc etc, as is normal in the world. The full political/national unity is what I am having a hard time coming up with actual arguments for.

Regarding the bolded, Why do you think that?

 

[RedStar]

I don't think neighbouring countries will be able to kill Somali's off as I don't think the world really works that way anymore. The issue that I have, is that many of these things can be addressed without full national/political union. Somali regional countries and states can have defence agreements, agreements in regards to the environment etc etc, as is normal in the world. The full political/national unity is what I am having a hard time coming up with actual arguments for.

Regarding the bolded, Why do you think that?

Do you honestly think that after breaking up into many states, Somalis would get together and sign defence treaties? Somalis already use foreign muscle to outpower other Somalis. If anything, they'd hold those talks with ajnabi states. For that reason, I think it is easier to mend the old wounds now rather than establishing new identities, boundaries and flags then talk about unity later on.
In the real world, if you're weak and your interests are not aligned with the powers that be, you get trampled on. There is no guarantee that if Somalia disintegrates that we won't get absorbed by Kenya and Ethiopia. I'll admit that Somaliweyn is a dreamy utopia, but who says we can't achieve it?

As for my assumption that you'd find the anecdote irrelevant, I told a lander relative of mine how Dire is not a Somali city anymore. He thought it was all hogwash and what happened in Dire Dawa would never happen in Somaliland. The Dire Dawa area is only 30% Somali on paper which is a fat lie. Now I'm not saying that Oromos and the Xabash would take over Somaliland, my point is that it was the Somali disunity that caused this.

 

[54321]

Do you honestly think that after breaking up into many states, Somalis would get together and sign defence treaties? Somalis already use foreign muscle to outpower other Somalis. If anything, they'd hold those talks with ajnabi states. For that reason, I think it is easier to mend the old wounds now rather than establishing new identities, boundaries and flags then talk about unity later on.
In the real world, if you're weak and your interests are not aligned with the powers that be, you get trampled on. There is no guarantee that if Somalia disintegrates that we won't get absorbed by Kenya and Ethiopia. I'll admit that Somaliweyn is a dreamy utopia, but who says we can't achieve it?

As for my assumption that you'd find the anecdote irrelevant, I told a lander relative of mine how Dire is not a Somali city anymore. He thought it was all hogwash and what happened in Dire Dawa would never happen in Somaliland. The Dire Dawa area is only 30% Somali on paper which is a fat lie. Now I'm not saying that Oromos and the Xabash would take over Somaliland, my point is that it was the Somali disunity that caused this.

I think it's more likely than Somalis coming together in an act of forgiveness and honest fraternity anytime soon.
I think Somaliweyn is probably inevitable, I just can't see advocating right now, as being beneficial to Somalis. As there isn't any brotherhood when it comes to politics, as it is overtly clan based and thus the opposite of what we are looking for. And politicians, who might have been able to curtain the influence of clan bullshit, tend to themselves peddle the same stuff &/ are corrupt af. Nobody with any power is seriously interested in mending old wounds, that's the material issue. I use to think clan based hatred would die out and national unity would become more likely, but I think some of the youth are even worse.
Anyway, thanks for giving me your thoughts.

 

[Trailblazer]

I was going to ask this in the Debate section, but it looks like it's gone.

I noticed a lot of people online subscribe to the ideology of Somaliweyn. Some seem to do it out of genuine brotherly feeling towards all Somalis, others for far less virtuous reasons.

My personal opinion is that if Somaliweyn is something to aspire to, it is something to aspire to in the very long term. And that to insist in its implementation at this point in time and history, is akin to insisting on more bloodshed between Somali’s and not less. (Never mind non-Somalis) That it will actually make the concept much harder to realise down the line. This, coupled with the clannish mentality that Somalis have, makes me think it would be better for now, to concentrate on building up our various regions and countries until the time is right.

Why should I, as an Isaaq who’s family is from Somaliland, abandon the status quo and the overwhelming sentiments of my clansmen, to subscribe to the Somaliweyn ideology?

Convince me if you please.

Also, SomaliWadaniSoldier, please, nobody needs your input. Only serious replies.

I like you mature more nuance way at looking at this question. all somalis were breast feed to believe in Somaliwayn because it truely is a survival mechanism. because we are very small demographically. only 25 million yet our neighbours in ethiopia will soon be 160 million and kenya will reach 60 million in the coming decades. we are surrounded by more robust people with stronger economies and more people, they will dominate us covert if not overtly. do you know that ethiopia is currently building several dams on the jubba and shebelle to control the flow of water to somalia, do you also know that our brain dead leader want to join the East african community( thank god they refused) not thinking about the future where more open border means free movement of people and goods. bantus from east africa would not only settle in somalia and take away our jobs but they would flood the market with their goods and we could not refuse because we signed binding treaties. as Somalis, we hold on to grudges: what happen in the pass influence how we interact politically with each other. without genuine reconciliation, i don't expect somalis to move forward. in the past, threat of invasion would rouse your patriotic fervor, yet in 2009 when Ethiopia invade the south and reach the india ocean something they have not done in their entire history and somalis were mute that when i realized that last generation is useless and we're not that different. today it is only the UN ideal that state should keep their territorial integrity is the only thing that keep us from further disintegration and being invade by our neighbours. for now deal with your status quo, but understand that you're the only stake holder in the north. I don't belief that SL should be brought back, they have every right to break away as a people but the same right should be accord the harti clans and Dir.

 

[Trailblazer]

The impression I have always got is that these people are not interest in unity, and what they're really interested in is subjugation. I seriously made this thread in the hope that somebody would prove to me that wasn't true. In the end their real sentiments come out. They want war and bloodshed and subjugation.

And Somaliland doesn't, such hypocrisy. in 1991, how many Gudabirsa did your SNM kill, how many Ogaden refugees. how many Dulbahante have perished for you dream of independent Somaliland. You dare to take the Moral high ground when you clan elder swear to make the Dulbahante like the Palestinians. "land does move people do". warya do you see fathom Fagash soldiers , who is fighting you except local clans. Xamar's army is not moving north. your the only once bring bloodshed and subjugation to Harti not the other way around.

 

[54321]

And Somaliland doesn't, such hypocrisy. in 1991, how many Gudabirsa did your SNM kill, how many Ogaden refugees. how many Dulbahante have perished for you dream of independent Somaliland. You dare to take the Moral high ground when you clan elder swear to make the Dulbahante like the Palestinians. "land does move people do". warya do you see fathom Fagash soldiers , who is fighting you except local clans. Xamar's army is not moving north. your the only once bring bloodshed and subjugation to Harti not the other way around.

How am I hypocrite when I don't condone ANY of that. I guess you think because I am isaaq, I want to see non Isaaq treated badly. I like how you can't seperate individual people from decision made and things said by clan elders and politicians they have no connection to. My comment was about specific people I had spoken to, some on here.

 

[Trailblazer]

How am I hypocrite when I don't condone ANY of that. I guess you think because I am isaaq, I want to see non Isaaq treated badly. I like how you can't seperate individual people from decision made and things said by clan elders and politicians they have no connection to. My comment was about specific people I had spoken to, some on here.

if i misjudge you character forgive me, yet you mad the blanket statement that some people want bloodshed and subjugation as if all none somalilands want that. i may be pro-somaliweyn but i would rather renounce Wagooyi to prevent another 88. i would willing dismember somalia to prevent further bloodshed are you will to let go of harti clans if they wish to return to somalia.

 

[Bahal]

i would willing dismember somalia to prevent further bloodshed