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sxb you need to understand that there’s an ideological basis for their dislike of the practice beyond the transgressions that people commit in how it’s carried out.
Had it been simply about the transgressions alone you wouldn’t find any muslim using terms like fgm which are not only racist but also vilify the very same circumcision that Islam allows which they claim they’re against. Just in this thread innocent women were being mocked for demanding rights over their own bodies
“Types of surgical forms ;(a) Circumcision or Sunna (“traditional”) circumcision: This involves the removal of the prepuce and the tip of the clitoris. This is the only operation which, medically, can be likened to male circumcision”[11]You’re all over the place
The ruling regarding female circumcision in Islam involves modification via reduction its not a pricking etc as the Hadith pertaining to the act mention this. Now in Malaysia & Indonesia both type 1 & type 4 are carried out with type 4 being the most prevalent.
I don’t know if it’s down to their understanding, customs etc that they carry it out via pricking but this definitely isn’t how it’s practiced in other places where it’s the norm like in carabaha etc. So the fact you’re trying to insinuate that only their type is the Islamic one is without a doubt false
Removal of any of isn’t allowed:Reiterated multiple times that the entire clitoris isn’t removed just the visible part & it’s only afterwards that you begin to track back from your claims very convenient. Similarly your derogatory language of describing it ONLY as muitilation when carried out by Africans only stopped when I highlighted your selectivity.
I was talking about the circumcision that happens in Gambia so why do I have talk about the West in order for me to say that Pagan circumcision is haram? To callPrior to this not once did you describe western modifications like clitoral hood reduction, labiaplasty etc all which constitute fgm under the definition of WHO. If a Gambian woman goes to a hospital & chooses to undergo labiaplasty is this muitilation?
Female genitical mutilation. Cutting the clitoris is mutilation of the genitalia that belong to females. It’s as simple.View attachment 320908
I ask why do you continuously use the term fgm despite knowing that the Islamic circumcision is included in it ? Your response is to claim that you did made a distinction between the Islamic type & other types ? How is this not a deflection of what I’m asking you ?
Type III is indeed 19% overall. Let’s not lie.Again the most common types of in Gambia is type 1& 2, type 3 is only practiced by the tribe who consistute 1%. Type 2 is the most prevalent
I’m talking about Type 1-3 that’s haram. Also, you can never say that type 3 doesn’t cause health risks even if done in the hospital. That’s a terrible lie of the highest order. When you seal a woman up it causes issues with periods and even urine as it’s now coming from one hole. I’m sorry to get graphic but it’s absurd what you’re saying Wallahi.All the health risks etc associated with “fgm” is due to the extreme forms of it which are carried out in non-medical environments. The moment they’re medicalised the risks are greatly reduced this is a better approach than letting women suffer & it also reduces the prevalence of the extreme forms of it.
Firstly, cadaan mutilation isn’t common at all. It happens with trans which I find disgusting and then you have women in the corn industry who might have a big Labia trying to reduce it which another issue and I find it disgusting to be franks is it another flip of the coin, straight up misogyny. Whilst I can acknowledge all times are haram unless it’s a medical need, you simply can’t and will make excuses by using the West as an example.I’m criticising you because of your selective outrage, hypocritical behaviour where you use derogatory language to describe Africans etc yet the same is lacking when it comes cadans ?
How about you actually stop advocating and cheering on haram practices and simply stick what’s right instead of being a weird Afrocentric who’ll champion African paganism practices.Stop acting like a racist cadaan & get of your high horse that you use to mock your fellow muslim women. You were calling them pick mes & have the audacity to play victim here
You know I was referring to this last parts
View attachment 320912
So yes ban it. Ban the female circumcision thats prescribed in the religion. That's what you said
Don't play games Angelina. You're against the Sunna circumcision for absurd reasons and excuses. Just admit it.
Since I’ve been saying from the very beginning, Islamic version is halal and some Muslim countries even the one I reside in do it fine, how can you then lie through your teeth that I ‘ideologically’ dislike it? There are two angels recording you and not once did I say anything about the halal.sxb you need to understand that there’s an ideological basis for their dislike of the practice beyond the transgressions that people commit in how it’s carried out.
How is type II-III which isn’t even allowed a right for a Muslim woman? You’ve never really answered that? We’ve established that’s what the majority practice? You’ll not answer this as you’re shameless.Had it been simply about the transgressions alone you wouldn’t find any muslim using terms like fgm which are not only racist but also vilify the very same circumcision that Islam allows which they claim they are not against. Just in this thread innocent women were being mocked for demanding rights over their own bodies
Not once did I say that it should be banned for the simple fact that’s it’s being done. I even used a fatwa from Islamqa to come come with my point about how it shouldn’t be done unless it’s done properly and in a hospital and I’ve also said it’s okay when it comes to places like Malaysia. I even live in a country in which it happens in hospitals. So what’s your point?Female circumcision has been practiced since the time of the prophet ﷺ & it was carried out by women they didn’t have medical degrees laakin nonetheless were able to do it.
Did the prophet circumcised his daughters?You’re all over the place
The ruling regarding female circumcision in Islam involves modification via reduction its not a pricking etc as the Hadith pertaining to the act mention this. Now in Malaysia & Indonesia both type 1 & type 4 are carried out with type 4 being the most prevalent. I don’t know if it’s down to their understanding, customs etc that they carry it out via pricking but this definitely isn’t how it’s practiced in other places where it’s the norm like in carabaha etc. So the fact you’re trying to insinuate that only their type is the Islamic one is without a doubt false
Reiterated multiple times that the entire clitoris isn’t removed just the visible part & it’s only afterwards that you begin to track back from your claims very convenient. Similarly your derogatory language of describing it ONLY as muitilation when carried out by Africans only stopped when I highlighted your selectivity.
Prior to this not once did you describe western modifications like clitoral hood reduction, labiaplasty etc all which constitute fgm under the definition of WHO. If a Gambian woman goes to a hospital & chooses to undergo labiaplasty is this muitilation?
View attachment 320908
I ask why do you continuously use the term fgm despite knowing that the Islamic circumcision is included in it ? Your response is to claim that you did made a distinction between the Islamic type & other types ? How is this not a deflection of what I’m asking you ?
Again the most common types of in Gambia is type 1& 2, type 3 is only practiced by the tribe who consistute 1%. Type 2 is the most prevalent
All the health risks etc associated with “fgm” is due to the extreme forms of it which are carried out in non-medical environments. The moment they’re medicalised the risks are greatly reduced this is a better approach than letting women suffer & it also reduces the prevalence of the extreme forms of it.
I’m criticising you because of your selective outrage, hypocritical behaviour where you use derogatory language to describe Africans etc yet the same is lacking when it comes cadans ?
Stop acting like a racist cadaan & get of your high horse that you use to mock your fellow muslim women. You were calling them pick mes & have the audacity to play victim here
If you sympathy was genuine you wouldn’t be mocking these women at all.
Yes it is mainly women who encourage itFGM is matriarchal practice in general.
"You're OK with the practice in the Muslim countries that do it properly and against the practice altogether in the Muslim countries that don't do it properly and sometimes transgress"You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
My body my rules, kudos to these beautiful sisters for standing up to feminist garbage. I guess they hate it when women choose to stay chaste.
are you jokingMy body my rules, kudos to these beautiful sisters for standing up to feminist garbage. I guess they hate it when women choose to stay chaste.
Well yes, because countries that don’t do it properly due to pre-Islamic pagan beliefs. Somalis call guudnin Fircooni and that didn’t come from Islam the way they do it, it came from pagan origins."You're OK with the practice in the Muslim countries that do it properly and against the practice altogether in the Muslim countries that don't do it properly and sometimes transgress"
Firstly, the fatwa itself said the same thing. It literally said it shouldn’t be done if it isn’t in a hospital and don’t properly:This itself itself is doomed principle and not how the deen works. You're advocating for banning and making it haram something that is halal in the deen because some people don't do it properly lol.
What about banning the taraweeh prayers in the Masjidul Haram because they pray 10 rakats which is contrary to the Ijma of the Muslims that the taraweeh should be 20 rakats plus witr and it's just qiyamul layl if it's less than 20.
No, your logic is very dumb and earlier you claimed that you didn’t have issues with the Fatwa but you clearly do.Or better why not ban the hijab since some people don't know how to wear it properly and misuse. I mean it's valid reason to ban the hijab if we follow your logic.
Don't you see the problems in your logic?
No, you're playing with words that fatwa is with me and against your demonic agenda. Hospitals are a pretty modern invention to most of the world's population and people have been circumcised since dawn of time by experts in the field. Those Habro(old women) in Miyi are experts in the field. They know how to do sunna circumcision and they also know how to do fircooni. It's your choiceFirstly, the fatwa itself said the same thing. It literally said it shouldn’t be done if it isn’t in a hospital and don’t properly:
It seems you don't know what "ban" entails in legal formation. It entails being put in jail or fined for doing/practicing something that is banned. Now taraweeh or any salah being postponed for bad weather or plague doesn't mean it's banned and anyone who is praying is breaking the law.No, your logic is very dumb and earlier you claimed that you didn’t have issues with the Fatwa but you clearly do
Why does the Fatwa say medical personal? are you accusing them of being demonic? It literally said that yet you’re fighting me?No, you're playing with words that fatwa is with me and against your demonic agenda. Hospitals are a pretty modern invention to most of the world's population and people have been circumcised since dawn of time by experts in the field.
They don’t do it in hospitals in Somalia and they usually do the Fircoonic version which isn’t even allowed in Somalia. So get out of here. They’re not experts Authobillah. They do Fircooni style! They are not experts in Sunnah so why lie? If they were why would the majority of Somalis for centuries go for Fircooni?!Those Habro(old women) in Miyi are experts in the field. They know how to do sunna circumcision and they also know how to do fircooni. It's your choice
The fact that you praised old habros in our dhaqan who have been doing the pagan unIslamic version for centuries and we have lots of cases of women in our community that have health problems due to this tells me you’re not worth debating with. Anyone that does the haram version should be thrown in jail. If should be done By a medical expert.It seems you don't know what "ban" entails in legal formation. It entails being put in jail or fined for doing/practicing something that is banned. Now taraweeh or any salah being postponed for bad weather or plague doesn't mean it's banned and anyone who is praying is breaking the law.
So why don't you say ban gudniinka ficooniga and encourage more gudniinka sunnaha. Instead of using gudniinka fircooniga as pretext to ban gudniinka oo dhan. Isn't this a bad principle. It's clear as day to me that you are against female circumcision.Well yes, because countries that don’t do it properly due to pre-Islamic pagan beliefs. Somalis call guudnin Fircooni and that didn’t come from Islam the way they do it, it came from pagan origins.
Hence, it’s a pretty straight forward reasoning.
So why don't you say ban gudniinka ficooniga and encourage more gudniinka sunnaha. Instead of using gudniinka fircooniga as pretext to ban gudniinka oo dhan. Isn't this a bad principle. It's clear as day to me that you are against female circumcision.
The old Habros are most definitely medical experts in the field. Again don’t play with words. They do fircooni because that's what most of the parents choose or used to choose. The old umulisooyin in the miyi are experts in the field so are gudniin habroos. Not everyone in Somalia has access to hospitals.Why does the Fatwa say medical personal? are you accusing them of being demonic? It literally said that yet you’re fighting me?
In conclusion, Female Circumcision is permitted in Islam by the manner prescribed by the Fuqaha (Jurists), and should only be undertaken by medical experts in that field.
Are old Somali ladies who are used to cutting too much and doing Fircooni medical experts? We have enough literature that talks about women bleeding to death and infections.
I’ll tell you why? Because you’re a liar and you have nothing to accuse me of which is why you started searching me up to find anything that will try and trap me.
I knew you were a weirdo when you @ me during another thread saying I hated men like you even though I don’t know you. You’re ill do leave me alone.
They don’t do it in hospitals in Somalia and they usually do the Fircoonic version which isn’t even allowed in Somalia. So get out of here. They’re not experts Authobillah. They do Fircooni style! They are not experts in Sunnah so why lie? If they were why would the majority of Somalis for centuries go for Fircooni?!
You are truly dumb and don’t know what you’re talking about.
The fact that you praised old habros in our dhaqan who have been doing the pagan unIslamic version for centuries and we have lots of cases of women in our community that have health problems due to this tells me you’re not worth debating with. Anyone that does the haram version should be thrown in jail. If should be done By a medical expert.
Don’t debate with someone when you don’t even know what you’re talking about.