Female Supporters of FGM March In Gambia! They Want It Legalized

[AdoonkaAlle]

Not one procedure is offered to cadaan women that removes the whole clitoris let alone children unless they’re trans and that’s a whole different topic and non of us Muslims here agree with that abomination and this is why education on this topic amongst Somalis should be mandatory. At this point you’re a spreading misinformation. The clitoris is needed for women’s pleasure and that’s something cadaans certainly aren’t going to chop. Hence, your whole point is, because Trans gaals mutiliate themselves so can African countries? Since when is our standards based on there standards?

What’s offered amongst cadaan non trans women is type IV which is the removal of the hood and African countries do not do this and certainly not Gambia which YOU yourself have pointed out to type I and II and some doing III.

Fadlan pick a biology book & read up . Not a single comparison is made on the basis of the entire clitoris being removed it’s only about the visible part. The reason being majority of clitoris isn’t visible.

All the conparison between fgcs & fgm is based on alterations made to the clitoris, labia, vaginal openings etc . When it’s done in Africa etc it’s muitilation but when done in western countries it’s cosmetic surgery that’s perfectly fine. This is the contradiction at hand which you’re ignoring intentionally & no amount of deflection will make it go away

I even included a picture from the article clearly showing the similarities between fgm & fgcs to highlight the contradictions in place yet you continue to argue.

 

[Angelina]

Fadlan pick a biology book & read up . Not a single comparison is made on the basis of the entire clitoris being removed it’s only about the visible part. The reason being majority of clitoris isn’t visible.

I know this and my whole argument is that African countries remove all. We all know this hence it’s disingenuous for you to bring up another argument.

All the conparison between fgcs & fgm is based on alterations made to the clitoris, labia, vaginal openings etc . When it’s done in Africa etc it’s muitilation but when done in western countries it’s cosmetic surgery that’s perfectly fine. This is the contradiction at hand which you’re ignoring intentionally & no amount of deflection will make it go away

African countries do not only remove the hood. They chop the whole clitoris off. That’s my point! It’s Malaysian and other Asian Muslim countries that can be compared to the West! African countries mostly offer type II which is the removal of the whole clitoris and Labia. Show me any cosmetic surgeon offering that apart from trans surgery in the Wests?

I even included a picture from the article clearly showing the similarities between fgm & fgcs to highlight the contradictions in place yet you continue to argue.

No, because you’re side stepping the reality that most of Gambia and other African countries remove the whole clit and Labia and the now the proof is on you to show a cosmetic procedure that does that in the West for non trans.

What they offer in the west is shaping and removal of hood and even then it’s for adult women not children.

 

[Moon-]

The term fgm is a racist construct employed to dehumanise any non- white community that practices any form of female genital modification. It doesn’t matter whether it takes place in a hospital or not.

It’s used to make a distinction between cadan & non- cadan modifications made to the female genitalia. In western countries these procedures are described as female genital cosmetic surgery (fgcs) while in African countries etc they’re described as female genital muitilation (fgm) despite being similar. Have a look at the following comparison between the two, I took it from an article titled “ FGM” vs. female “cosmetic” surgeries: why do they continue to be treated separately? “ link is below

View attachment 320887

Fgm vs female cosmetic surgeries; why do they continue to be treated separately?

If these procedures carried out in Africa etc are all negatives then why are they offered to cadan women in western countries? “Fgm” negative narrative is a result of “fgm” activist but if you look at the literature from scholars etc you get a totally different perspective.

Take for instance all the negative associations of fgm like health risks etc this is a result of portraying the worst forms of it that are carried out in non-medical settings. The moment the same procedures are done in a medical setting then the risks associated with them are greatly reduced. Now for people who care about health of women why aren’t these ngo’s not promoting medicalising these procedures so as to alleviate the suffering?

These “fgm” activists, ngo’s etc would rather women suffer than help them by medicalising these procedures simply because it doesn’t align with their ideology. Meaning there’s a clash of interest here ; the health of African women vs cadan worldview.

All that money & resources used to advocate for zero policy towards “fgm” have failed as the practice continues. More importantly it could’ve been better spent in alleviating health risks from un-safe procedures laakin since isn’t to their liking the current predicament ensues.

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[AdoonkaAlle]

Fr. Fircuni and the rest that do not apply to Islamic circumcision may be considered mutilation but where they ever step is when they side with the gaal on what Islam has deemed halal.

That’s the point sxb, the Islamic circumcision is still defined as “muitilation” & so it doesn’t make sense to use the term “fgm”. Whether the circumcision is within the limits set by diinta or transgress it, ALL of them are classified as “fgm”

That’s why it’s ridiculous for Muslims to use the term “fgm” to define circumcision that’s against Islam.

In addition to this there’s another hypocrisy where there’s a lack of condemnation when the same modifications that are beyond what diinta allows are carried out in cadan countries. It’s never muitilation but if happens in Africa it suddenly is muitilation

When cadan do it it’s never chopping off the clitoris laakin when it’s done in gambia etc it’s considered as such. Look at the language being used here & tell me that’s not an issue. It’s as if I’m discussing with a racist cadaan individual

 

[Khaemwaset]

That’s the point sxb, the Islamic circumcision is still defined as “muitilation” & so it doesn’t make sense to use the term “fgm”. Whether the circumcision is within the limits set by diinta or transgress it, ALL of them are classified as “fgm”

That’s why it’s ridiculous for Muslims to use the term “fgm” to define circumcision that’s against Islam.

In addition to this there’s another hypocrisy where there’s a lack of condemnation when the same modifications that are beyond what diinta allows are carried out in cadan countries. It’s never muitilation but if happens in Africa it suddenly is muitilation

When cadan do it it’s never chopping off the clitoris laakin when it’s done in gambia etc it’s considered as such. Look at the language being used here & tell me that’s not an issue. It’s as if I’m discussing with a racist cadaan individual

Well said

 

[Angelina]

That’s the point sxb, the Islamic circumcision is still defined as “muitilation” & so it doesn’t make sense to use the term “fgm”. Whether the circumcision is within the limits set by diinta or transgress it, ALL of them are classified as “fgm”

That’s why it’s ridiculous for Muslims to use the term “fgm” to define circumcision that’s against Islam.

In addition to this there’s another hypocrisy where there’s a lack of condemnation when the same modifications that are beyond what diinta allows are carried out in cadan countries. It’s never muitilation but if happens in Africa it suddenly is muitilation

When cadan do it it’s never chopping off the clitoris laakin when it’s done in gambia etc it’s considered as such. Look at the language being used here & tell me that’s not an issue. It’s as if I’m discussing with a racist cadaan individual

If someone was to chop their fingers, you’d call it mutilation. Hence why isn’t it mutilation when someone chops off their private organs? Why simply because cadaans call it?

Also, how to do you want to deferentiate what is allowed in terms of circumcision and what isn’t?

At this point, it sounds like you’re defending barbaric procedures like Fircooni and you’re literally having an issue of be calling it mutilation. Why is that?

Let’s put gaalos to the side since I couldn’t care less about a group that would mutilate themselves to change gender, but now it seems you want to change the language in which chopping an organ is is seen as mutilation by every group.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

I know this and my whole argument is that African countries remove all. We all know this hence it’s disingenuous for you to bring up another argument.

African countries do not only remove the hood. They chop the whole clitoris off. That’s my point! It’s Malaysian and other Asian Muslim countries that can be compared to the West! African countries mostly offer type II which is the removal of the whole clitoris and Labia. Show me any cosmetic surgeon offering that apart from trans surgery in the Wests?

No, because you’re side stepping the reality that most of Gambia and other African countries remove the whole clit and Labia and the now the proof is on you to show a cosmetic procedure that does that in the West for non trans.

What they offer in the west is shaping and removal of hood and even then it’s for adult women not children.

Again go read up on the female anatomy as you clearly need to brush up on it. There’s never been a case where the entire clitoris has been removed even the racist cadans don’t make such claims. You’re simply oblivious to your ignorance & it’s shocking

So when cadaan do perform modifications to the clitoris it’s about shaping & removal of the hood when Africans do the same it’s called chopping the clitoris off ??? Talk about inferiority complex

Am I speaking to a cadaan lady or somali lady which is it ?

 

[Angelina]

Again go read up on the female anatomy as you clearly need to brush up on it. There’s never been a case where the entire clitoris has been removed even the racist cadans don’t make such claims. You’re simply oblivious to your ignorance & it’s shocking

!

Are you saying Fircooni doesn’t remove the clitoris? It removes the total clitoris although I’m aware there are nerve cells which are part of the clitoris inside the vagina. But it’s well known that Firconi is a form of Clitoridectomy.

Also, what’s your point? Are you trying to imply that type II and III are allowed? So now it’s racist for me to say most of the clitoris is cut? This is the issue, you’re defending it aren’t you?

So when cadaan do perform modifications to the clitoris it’s about shaping & removal of the hood when Africans do the same it’s called chopping the clitoris off ??? Talk about inferiority complex

What is type II and type III if it isn’t the cutting of the clitoris? Are you being for real now? They even sew the Labia? When do cadaans do this apart from transgender surgeries? Claiming otherwise is an egregious lie at this point.

How can you compare type Ii which is clitordectomy to removal of the hood or vaginal tightening?


Secondly: procedures like Vaginal tightening which you tried to compare to type III which is utter madness Is a procedures usually done for mothers who’ve given birth back to back. Please explain how that’s equivalent to doing pagan III on a 6 yr old child in which their clit is removed and their labia sewed together to case and artificial and straight up dangerous tightening that impacts periods and causes infections.

Am I speaking to a cadaan lady or somali lady which is it ?

The fact that you’re comparing the incomparable shows that you’re incredibly ignorant of the dangers of type II and three and you’re comparing it to vaginal tightening down to a mother and a child being sewed up. Have a bit of shame.

 

[Burqad]

Pick me's are so retarded LMAO

how are they pickmes when men tend to be against FGM and women tend to be for it?

 

[Burqad]

Because before 1991, 100% of somalis women…

There has never been a period of time when 100% of somalis did anything. what about reer magal Islamic women or the regions in which it was never practiced? You need to have a yibir women to carry it out and they simply don’t exist in some areas.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

If someone was to chop their fingers, you’d call it mutilation. Hence why isn’t it mutilation when someone chops off their private organs? Why simply because cadaans call it?

Also, how to do you want to deferentiate what is allowed in terms of circumcision and what isn’t?

At this point, it sounds like you’re defending barbaric procedures like Fircooni and you’re literally having an issue of be calling it mutilation. Why is that?

Let’s put gaalos to the side since I couldn’t care less about a group that would mutilate themselves to change gender, but now it seems you want to change the language in which chopping an organ is is seen as mutilation by every group.

If cutting off fingers is muitilation would you make a distinction when an African does it & when a European does it ? Of course not, this is exactly what you’re doing as you continuously make distinction when the modifications are made in Africa vs Europe etc. Why didn’t you say Europeans were chopping their clitoris off when they performed alterations to the clitoris ? Why use that language ONLY towards Africans ?

You were insulting fellow muslim women simply because they wanted their right to practice circumcision. Misconstrued facts, engaged in selective outrage, continue to use muitilation to describe the Islamic circumcision, give benefit of the doubt to European, dehumanise fellow Muslims so as to justify your selective & subjective claims pertaining to female circumcision

How is hood reduction, labiaplasty, piercing, pricking etc muitilation? How are these equivalent to chopping off the head from a man’s penis ? Look at the derogatory language that use here & have the audacity to play victim here

FGM by definition includes the Islamic circumcision & makes no distinction between what diinta allows versus its opposite. So the fact that you continuously use such a term to then make a distinction between the islamic type vs fircooni one is just nonsensical

 

[Angelina]

There has never been a period of time when 100% of somalis did anything. what about reer magal Islamic women or the regions in which it was never practiced? You need to have a yibir women to carry it out and they simply don’t exist in some areas.

majority of the women in my family are reer magaal and it still happened to them. Amongst ethnic Somalis, it was simply ceeb not to do it.

 

[Angelina]

If cutting off fingers is muitilation would you make a distinction when an African does it & when a European does it ? Of course not, this is exactly what you’re doing as you continuously make distinction when the modifications are made in Africa vs Europe etc. Why didn’t you say Europeans were chopping their clitoris off when they performed alterations to the clitoris ? Why use that language ONLY towards Africans ?

Do I make a distinction when gaalos mutilate their confused transgender people? Did I not say that’s mutilation? Hence why lie?


Also, how is vaginal tightening or reducing the hood mutilation? That’s what cadaan offer. I don’t consider type IV which is the Islamic form mutilation. Anything else is.

Type II and type III FGM is removing the whole clitorial hood and glands.

How and in what earth is that comparable?

At this point, I’m going to assume you’re defending Fircooni and not one cadaan surgeon offers cutting off most of the clitoris and sewing the Labia unless it’s a trans surgery, hence your point is now a verging on to lies.

Also, do cadaans cut the organs of children? The average age of type II and III is 6? So how can you compare walal?

You were insulting fellow muslim women simply because they wanted their right to practice circumcision. Misconstrued facts, engaged in selective outrage, continue to use muitilation to describe the Islamic circumcision,

Wallahi Allah is my witness and you’re a liar to the core. Show me at one instance that I called Sunnah circumcision mutilation? Wallahi I can’t believe what my eyes are seeing. This level of lies is shocking to see.

give benefit of the doubt to European, dehumanise fellow Muslims so as to justify your selective & subjective claims pertaining to female circumcision

Those Muslim women practice type II and III mostly. That’s Haram. Only type IV is the correct way.

Now with that comment I’ll assume you’re for haram pagan practices as long as they’re African in nature.

You’re also a liar wallahi and it’s the month of Ramadan. If my intentions was to dehumanize Muslims why have I said time and time again many Muslim countries do it correctly and I don’t believe in the gaal slander of let’s say Malaysia. I’ve made my self clear but you still lie.

How is hood reduction, labiaplasty, piercing, pricking etc muitilation? How are these equivalent to chopping off the head from a man’s penis ? Look at the derogatory language that use here & have the audacity to play victim here

Hood reduction is halal. Labiaplasty is haram. Piercing your Labia is haram and hence mutilation.

What’s equivalent to chopping the head of a man’s penis is type II and type III as you’re cutting the clitoris glands and the head of penis is where the glands are.

Unless you’re a deviant and believe in Fircooni circumcision, you wouldn’t be going against that point.

FGM by definition includes the Islamic circumcision & makes no distinction between what diinta allows versus its opposite. So the fact that you continuously use such a term to then make a distinction between the islamic type vs fircooni one is just nonsensical

I honestly don’t care since gaals won’t call changing your gender mutilation. But because in African pagan cultures type II and type III isn’t seen as mutilation but it’s seen as mutilation, you’re not going to call it what it is? Cutting an organ which is indeed mutilation.

Unless you’re in agreement with type II and type III which your arguments does seem like
It, why on earth would you think cutting into an organ and sewing the Labia isn’t mutilation? What do you want to call it?

Also, the fact that you don’t even understand that chopping the clitorial glands is the same as cutting the head of the penis and you found that comparison offensive shows you think type II and type III is acceptable.

Authobillah is what I have to say and you’ve shown your true colors. For all of your talk of semantics, what it boils down to is, how dare you talk about type II and two II which is what literally 70% of Gambian women are going and it isn’t halal.

 

[Angelina]

@AdoonkaAlle

It’s the month of Ramadan and your lies is incredibly to witness. Thought out my exchange with I made a difference between Sunnah circumcision and sited the countries of Malaysia and Indonesia as an example and type I, type II and III which isn’t allowed Islamically which is overwhelming practiced in Gambia which isn’t allowed in Islam.

Why would you lie about someone just to win a debate? Why?

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

!

Are you saying Fircooni doesn’t remove the clitoris? It removes the total clitoris although I’m aware there are nerve cells which are part of the clitoris inside the vagina. But it’s well known that Firconi is a form of Clitoridectomy.

Also, what’s your point? Are you trying to imply that type II and III are allowed? So now it’s racist for me to say most of the clitoris is cut? This is the issue, you’re defending it aren’t you?

What is type II and type III if it isn’t the cutting of the clitoris? Are you being for real now? They even sew the Labia? When do cadaans do this apart from transgender surgeries? Claiming otherwise is an egregious lie at this point.

How can you compare type Ii which is clitordectomy to removal of the hood or vaginal tightening?


Secondly: procedures like Vaginal tightening which you tried to compare to type III which is utter madness Is a procedures usually done for mothers who’ve given birth back to back. Please explain how that’s equivalent to doing pagan III on a 6 yr old child in which their clit is removed and their labia sewed together to case and artificial and straight up dangerous tightening that impacts periods and causes infections.



The fact that you’re comparing the incomparable shows that you’re incredibly ignorant of the dangers of type II and three and you’re comparing it to vaginal tightening down to a mother and a child being sewed up. Have a bit of shame.

Even in fircooni type the entire clitoris is never removed, the reason being majority of the clitoris is inside not outside. The visible part is a small part, it’s called clitoris glans this is what most people refer to when they talk about the clitoris. Furthermore there’s variations to the fircooni types as well, where are you getting that majority of fircooni type involve removal of clitoris ?

You’re entire basis for this is material from fgm activists pls research up on it from actual scholars & people who’ve dealt with them. Stop accusing me of things that I’ve not even mentioned & focus on what exactly I’m criticising you for.

 

[Angelina]

Even in fircooni type the entire clitoris is never removed, the reason being majority of the clitoris is inside not outside.

I know this but their clitorial glands are removed which I why I compared it to cutting off the head of a penis as that where the glands are for men. Also, their Labia is sewn.

The visible part is a small part, it’s called clitoris glans this is what most people refer to when they talk about the clitoris. Furthermore there’s variations to the fircooni types as well, where are you getting that majority of fircooni type involve removal of clitoris ?

By removing of the clitoris I’m talking of removing all the hood and the glands. The inside part doesn’t count as it is covered by the sewing of the Labia and also, with type II when women’s clitorial hood and glands are cut, they can’t feel since that’s where most of the sensation is.

You’re entire basis for this is material from fgm activists pls research up on it from actual scholars & people who’ve dealt with them. Stop accusing me of things that I’ve not even mentioned & focus on what exactly I’m criticising you for.

I know what I’m talking about. But what I want to know is why are you going out of your way to make the distinction unless you’re pro type II or III? Even if the whole clitoris isn’t removed which we’ve noted, the glands are and their Labia is sewn. That’s still a form of mutilation and is haram unless you think it’s okay and if you do, we can stop this debate as then at least you’ve admitted it. You can have that view if you want.

This whole exchange is laughable Walahi as you’re making yourself sound sympathetic to the haram pagan types. ‘Oh but only the whole hood and the glands are chopped off!’ So what are you going to say next? It isn’t so bad?

Authobillah.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

@AdoonkaAlle

It’s the month of Ramadan and your lies is incredibly to witness. Thought out my exchange with I made a difference between Sunnah circumcision and sited the countries of Malaysia and Indonesia as an example and type I, type II and III which isn’t allowed Islamically which is overwhelming practiced in Gambia which isn’t allowed in Islam.

Why would you lie about someone just to win a debate? Why?

Lie about what exactly?

Those types of circumcision from Malaysia etc are still classified as muitilation as fgm type 4. Knowing this why do you continue to use the term “fgm” as it doesn’t make any distinction between Islamic circumcision & all other types ?

Since all forms of modification made to the female genitalia are classified as muitilation it makes no sense to then use it to make any distinction afterwards. This is here is the problem

You well aware that “fgm” comprised of different types yet this didn’t stop you from claiming that the male comparison to it was chopping head of the penis

 

[Angelina]

Lie about what exactly?

Those types of circumcision from Malaysia etc are still classified as muitilation as fgm type 4. Knowing this why do you continue to use the term “fgm” as it doesn’t make any distinction between Islamic circumcision & all other types ?

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Since all forms of modification made to the female genitalia are classified as muitilation it makes no sense to then use it to make any distinction afterwards. This is here is the problem

I simply couldn’t careless about what cadaans call mutilation. You’re talking to me about a group who think it’s fine to chemically castrate their young despite their overwhelming medical literature noting the health issues and but they’ll call Islamic circumcision practiced in Malaysia FGM despite their own medical papers noting it causes 0 health problems.

Im interested in facts. Type II and III factually cases health issues and is a type of mutilation. Even if cadaans didn’t see it as so, I’d call it mutilation as a spade is a spade and it’s also haram, hence there is no reason for to defend it if that is your intentions.

You well aware that “fgm” comprised of different types yet this didn’t stop you from claiming that the male comparison to it was chopping head of the penis

Type II and three is indeed similar to chopping the head of a penis as your chopping the glands of an organ. The head is where most of the sensation is and for me I’ve always made a distinction between Islamic and FGM. I don’t care about cadaan’s and unfortunately, the reality is that over 90% of Gambian Muslims engage in haram circumcision which is indeed mutilation of the private parts.

If you can’t even admit that cutting the glands of someone is indeed mutilation, I can’t with you. You might as well say you’re for it, because then you’d have to ask yourself, why is it haram? Why does it cause health problems? Why does it causes problems in peoples marriages? Because they cut a part that Allah didn’t Allah and created specificity for a purpose.

 

[Angelina]

@AdoonkaAlle

This part to me is absolutely heinous and created the impression that you’re for pagan versions of haram circumcision.

According to every single statistic and data with regards to the types of circumcision practiced in Gambia it’s overwhelming typeII and type III. Type I from what I can remember is only practiced by only 9% and even that isn’t seen as wholly Islamic. Type IV is.

Hence knowing that a whole nation mostly practices a pagan ritual of circumcision that is categorically haram, how dare and I mean how dare you say I’m attacking Muslim women for rights? The right to what? Type II Type III?

From my interaction with you and I hope I’m wrong, the same way gaals don’t want to distinguish between different types of circumcision, you too don’t want to differentiate between the haram and halal hence why you’re attacking me on a nation in which near enough more than 90% practice a pagan version which literally causes immense health problems for young women. How dare you wallahi.

Seriously, fear Allah and stop with the lies and slander and follow your own advise, learn to differentiate between what’s haram and what’s halal. You’re literally arguing with me because I’m calling the chopping off of private glands of woman is a form of mutilation. Bisinka.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

I know this but their clitorial glands are removed which I why I compared it to cutting off the head of a penis as that where the glands are for men. Also, their Labia is sewn.

By removing of the clitoris I’m talking of removing all the hood and the glands. The inside part doesn’t count as it is covered by the sewing of the Labia and also, with type II when women’s clitorial hood and glands are cut, they can’t feel since that’s where most of the sensation is.

I know what I’m talking about. But what I want to know is why are you going out of your way to make the distinction unless you’re pro type II or III? Even if the whole clitoris isn’t removed which we’ve noted, the glands are and their Labia is sewn. That’s still a form of mutilation and is haram unless you think it’s okay and if you do, we can stop this debate as then at least you’ve admitted it. You can have that view if you want.

This whole exchange is laughable Walahi as you’re making yourself sound sympathetic to the haram pagan types. ‘Oh but only the whole hood and the glands are chopped off!’ So what are you going to say next? It isn’t so bad?

Authobillah.

Why do you do this ? it’s as you’re immune from admitting that you’re wrong

Not once did you bother to clarify yourself about the clitoris all this time you were claiming that they were removing the entire clitoris. It’s only after i confronted & corrected you that you decided to say that you meant something else very convenient.

You stated explicitly that the male equivalent of fgm was chopping off the head of the penis meaning all the different types covered by fgm not just the removal of clitoris etc. Piercing, pricking, hood reduction etc are all forms of fgm yet they’re not even remotely close to chopping head of the penis the only reason why you did such a thing is to shut down any sort of discussion between female & male circumcision


I agree this entire exchange is indeed laughable as you don’t want to admit your wrongdoing. I simply stated not to insult fellow muslim women & your reaction since then has been lacking

Why is it the gaalo who classify Islamic circumcision as muitilation are entitled to your advocacy, benefit of the doubt, respect laakin the same can’t be said for your fellow muslim women ?

Not only were you mocking them but engaged in dehumanising rhetoric simply because they dared to advocate for their Islamic right to circumcise themselves ?

You say you’re not against female circumcision in Islam but continuously use a label that classifies the Islamic circumcision as muitilation? Something just doesn’t add up & I hope you at least try to reflect back on your views