Why is Islam so bad to women and why do Islamic laws treat them more as property than a person?

[HouseofSamaale]

What is your agenda here honestly?

People have repeatedly told you such obvious fabrications are not followed by anyone or considered legitimate.

 

[tumal]

Allah says the Messenger does not speak his own opinions, he conveys only what was revealed to him, so hadiths are from Allah. So why not include these hadiths in Allah's book? Why did it require human beings to complete the religion?

As noted before, and as you conceded, you don't learn how to pray from hadiths. Nobody does. You learn them from your family. You learn how to worship through the exact same way as hadiths are handed down from generation to generation - through a chain of people teaching others. People would know how to pray even if they never heard of these hadiths, as most of them never have.

Yes, hadiths that merely support what's already in the Quran are legitimate, but there's nothing in the Quran about women's intellectual deficiency or FGM. That's all in the fake hadiths that you follow.

do you actually believe that he flew on a winged horse into the 7 heavens, because there are totally 7 heavens right? The sun also revolves around the Earth let's not forget that. Islam is the true science, Mashallah brother! Let's pray to in an language we don't understand to a Pagan temple that's located in a desert

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

Quran.

What do you mean 'source'? All prophets before Mohammed (PBUH) were non-Arabs, at least that is how I was taught. I am by no means an expert in Islam but who else was/were Arabs?

Prophets Aden, Noah, Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus -- all non-Arabs.

Sxb, don't ask me complicated Islamic stuff. After failing dugsi, and parents dejected due to my lack of effort in applying myself, I have enrolled in this link to better myself:

https://www.educationquizzes.com/us/specialist/islam/prophets-of-islam/

Don't judge me.

I wasn't being sceptical. Just interested.

You may well be right. Allah said that prophets were sent to every people, including Africans, whites, and Chinese.

 

[HouseofSamaale]

Is this guy an apostate?

Soomaali ku hadal.

 

[BestCaseScenario]

Allah says the Messenger does not speak his own opinions, he conveys only what was revealed to him, so hadiths are from Allah. So why not include these hadiths in Allah's book? Why did it require human beings to complete the religion?

As noted before, and as you conceded, you don't learn how to pray from hadiths. Nobody does. You learn them from your family. You learn how to worship through the exact same way as hadiths are handed down from generation to generation - through a chain of people teaching others. People would know how to pray even if they never heard of these hadiths, as most of them never have.

Yes, hadiths that merely support what's already in the Quran are legitimate, but there's nothing in the Quran about women's intellectual deficiency or FGM. That's all in the fake hadiths that you follow.

When did I say I don't learn how to pray from the Hadiths? Quite the opposite and it is only through the Hadiths one can pray the form of prayer we currently practice as Muslims.


Let us put this on the record before we proceed and waste time. Correct what you said first about me. No prayer as we pray without the Hadiths of the Prophet. Let me know if you accept that.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

do you actually believe that he flew on a winged horse into the 7 heavens, because there are totally 7 heavens right? The sun also revolves around the Earth let's not forget that. Islam is the true science, Mashallah brother! Let's pray to in an language we don't understand to a Pagan temple that's located in a desert

He couldn't breathe in outer space if he flew on a winged horse. There's no oxygen. That alone should tell you it's an anti-scientific hadith made up by others.

 

[HouseofSamaale]

You don't believe in Isra wal Miraj?

You might as well say you don't believe in Angels. What is 'scientific' about angels?

 

[BestCaseScenario]

turks are genetically different than arabs LOL and Turks are the most secular muslims. They drink alcohol and do whatever they want because they know a relegion from 1500 years ago doesn't hold up to science or reality anymore. You're an idiot and Somalia should leave the arab the league they have never helped us and we should never help them and as for AID remember when that famine happened in Somalia? Not 1 gulf nation offered to help but the rest of the world even countries in East Asia did. You're delusional and arabs are nothing but an enemy. Hopefully one day their shitty religion, culture, and language will be removed from out culture, streets and people

Science is not about disproving God. It has nothing to do with Spirituality and doesn't seek to deny the existence of an Almighty being.

I suggest you save face and refrain from making ignorant comments about science and religion.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

When did I say I don't learn how to pray from the Hadiths? Quite the opposite and it is only through the Hadiths one can pray the form of prayer we currently practice as Muslims.


Let us put this on the record before we proceed and waste time. Correct what you said first about me. No prayer as we pray without the Hadiths of the Prophet. Let me know if you accept that.

You said it in our former debate about hadiths.

So you admit that you can learn to pray and fast without reading hadiths, but just that it would be in different forms? Even if true, Muslims don't agree on how to pray as it is. They argue constantly about whether you should press your feet together in congregational prayers or not, whether to flick your index finger up and down when you're in a seated posture, whether to raise your hands up to your ears when you rise from rukuuc, whether to say one "asaalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah" or whether to say two when you're finishing prayer, etc. And that's just among Sunnis. That's because the hadiths contradict each other.

 

[BestCaseScenario]

You said it in our former debate about hadiths.

So you admit that you can learn to pray and fast without reading hadiths, but just that it would be in different forms? Even if true, Muslims don't agree on how to pray as it is. They argue constantly about whether you should press your feet together in congregational prayers or not, whether to flick your index finger up and down when you're in a seated posture, whether to raise your hands up to your ears when you rise from rukuuc, whether to say one "asaalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah" or whether to say two when you're finishing prayer, etc. And that's just among Sunnis. That's because the hadiths contradict each other.

I only exchanged views with you in another thread about the Hadiths. And you bailed out after you wouldn't accept you were wrong in your understanding. So, without wasting time, quote me where I said Hadiths are not important or you don't need the prophet's sayings to perform prayer.. You will get into trouble being disingenuous, so I suggest you be straight and up front if you can stand by your comments.

Here is a question for you, If you are a muslim, How do you pray? And where do you learn how to pray? And how many Rak'at do you pray? You can even pretend you pray but tell me something about that prayer you perform as a muslim following the Quran.

We know from the Quran that Allah made prayer mandatory on every muslim. But it was the prophet who taught how to perform these prayers and what one needs to do before one even comes to the prayer spot/mat/location...

If you have a method of prayer other than what Muslims perform as a prayer, let us see it and tell us your sources..


Don't waste time beating about the bushes... you will only get an answer when you address these issues.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

Show me step by step without leaving out a single maneuver how to pray salaat just from hadiths.

You don't believe in Isra wal Miraj?

You might as well say you don't believe in Angels. What is 'scientific' about angels?

The Quran says nothing about flying unicorns taking the prophet to heaven. That's a fake hadith on several counts. Firstly, you can tell it was written by someone ignorant of science because they try to account for how the prophet could have gone to heaven without a spacecraft by saying he rode on the back of a flying horse to get over the problem of gravity, but they didn't know anything about astronomy to understand that gravity is not the only obstacle to getting to heaven. You need a spacesuit or both the horse and the prophet would run out of oxygen.

If the writer did know astronomy, he would have felt the need to explain that to make it believable just as he felt the need to explain how the prophet could fly to paradise without technology.

Further, the hadith says Jibreel offered the prophet wine in Jerusalem. This contradicts the Quran which says wine is haraam in this world. Actually, this is not the first hadith that connects alcohol to the Messenger. Others say that he had alcohol around him. The Saudi sheikh Muhammad al-Arifi says the prophet may have sold it too. Aauthubillah. There's a video of it on YouTube.

 

[BestCaseScenario]

Show me step by step without leaving out a single maneuver how to pray salaat just from hadiths.

The Quran says nothing about flying unicorns taking the prophet to heaven. That's a fake hadith on several counts. Firstly, you can tell it was written by someone ignorant of science because they try to account for how the prophet could have gone to heaven without a spacecraft by saying he rode on the back of a flying horse to get over the problem of gravity, but they didn't know anything about astronomy to understand that gravity is not the only obstacle to getting to heaven. You need a spacesuit or both the horse and the prophet would run out of oxygen.

If the writer did know astronomy, he would have felt the need to explain that to make it believable just as he felt the need to explain how the prophet could fly to paradise without technology.

Further, the hadith says Jibreel offered the prophet wine in Jerusalem. This contradicts the Quran which says wine is haraam in this world. Actually, this is not the first hadith that connects alcohol to the Messenger. Others say that he had alcohol around him. The Saudi sheikh Muhammad al-Arifi says the prophet may have sold it too. Aauthubillah. There's a video of it on YouTube.

Don't jump to other baseless comments. Let us establish whether Hadiths are to be followed or not. It starts with Prayer. Let us get that settled first, then we can talk about flying unicorns and whatnots. Everything has an answer as I said to you sometime ago. Don't get too excited assuming there is no answer to your misguided comments and total confusion, or outright propaganda. We have answers for them, but stick to one issue at a time instead of slowly filling the place with trash.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

I only exchanged views with you in another thread about the Hadiths. And you bailed out after you wouldn't accept you were wrong in your understanding. So, without wasting time, quote me where I said Hadiths are not important or you don't need the prophet's sayings to perform prayer.. You will get into trouble being disingenuous, so I suggest you be straight and up front if you can stand by your comments.

Here is a question for you, If you are a muslim, How do you pray? And where do you learn how to pray? And how many Rak'at do you pray? You can even pretend you pray but tell me something about that prayer you perform as a muslim following the Quran.

We know from the Quran that Allah made prayer mandatory on every muslim. But it was the prophet who taught how to perform these prayers and what one needs to do before one even comes to the prayer spot/mat/location...

If you have a method of prayer other than what Muslims perform as a prayer, let us see it and tell us your sources..


Don't waste time beating about the bushes... you will only get an answer when you address these issues.

Poor thing. You're so rattled that you can't even read what I wrote. I said in our former debate, and in this one, that hadiths which support and elaborate on what is already in the Quran are legitimate, including, but not limited to acts of worship. Those which bring new doctrines however that are not in the Quran, like women being stupid and FGM (which is in sahih hadiths in spite of what you may have heard) are not.

Actually, the Quran does mention how to pray. It says Jesus prostrated, it says to bow with those who bow, etc. Just not in a connected way, but that's true of many things in the Quran.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

Don't jump to other baseless comments. Let us establish whether Hadiths are to be followed or not. It starts with Prayer. Let us get that settled first, then we can talk about flying unicorns and whatnots. Everything has an answer as I said to you sometime ago. Don't get too excited assuming there is no answer to your misguided comments and total confusion, or outright propaganda. We have answers for them, but stick to one issue at a time instead of slowly filling the place with trash.

I would have thought the prophet selling alcohol was trash my little rabbit, but I'm sure that is okay if it's in a hadith as well.

 

[HouseofSamaale]

Why is 'science' the guiding principle for you?

'Impossible' isn't a thing for Allah. Allah is omnipotent and does what he wills.

Are you going to say the fire being cool for Ibrahim is 'unscientific' as well.

The drink in Jannah isn't intoxicating. In any case, there is no contradiction in saying it is forbidden in this world and a form of heavenly wine will be available in the next.

You seem to be arguing along Enlightenment lines. We do not believe only in what we can see or deem possible with our limited intellect.

 

[BestCaseScenario]

Poor thing. You're so rattled that you can't even read what I wrote. I said in our former debate, and in this one, that hadiths which support and elaborate on what is already in the Quran are legitimate, including, but not limited to acts of worship. Those which bring new doctrines however that are not in the Quran, like women being stupid and FGM (which is in sahih hadiths in spite of what you may have heard) are not.

Actually, the Quran does mention how to pray. It says Jesus prostrated, it says to bow with those who bow, etc. Just not in a connected way, but that's true of many things in the Quran.

You wish I was rattled. I am just laying the traps for you so you walk right in expectedly. But obviously you burned bad before with careless swinging at Islam in forums, so you are treading carefully now as to buy yourself time and say as much garbage as you want. Dude, this is not a contest, just facts.

So, explain how you pray and let us see the details. That is all there is to this conversation. Use your sources, even from submission group websites. Just anything that shows Muslims are wrong in following the prophet's teachings and you are right in rejecting.

You have the ground now .. play at your own risk mate.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

Why is 'science' the guiding principle for you?

'Impossible' isn't a thing for Allah. Allah is omnipotent and does what he wills.

Are you going to say the fire being cool for Ibrahim is 'unscientific' as well.

The drink in Jannah isn't intoxicating. In any case, there is no contradiction in saying it is forbidden in this world and a form of wine will be available in the next.

The hadith says Jibreel offered him wine in the dunya, not the akhiro. Only a Quran rejector would think angels are khamro dispensers.

Nonintoxicating alcohol? Honey, you can buy alcohol free wine at the supermarket. You won't be intoxicated.

Why science? That's like saying why do you follow logic? Science is a record of what is true about the physical world. Am I supposed to follow blindly?

The Ibrahim story is in the Quran. The unicorn is not.

 

[Bidaar Wanagsan]

You wish I was rattled. I am just laying the traps for you so you walk right in expectedly. But obviously you burned bad before with careless swinging at Islam in forums, so you are treading carefully now as to buy yourself time and say as much garbage as you want. Dude, this is not a contest, just facts.

So, explain how you pray and let us see the details. That is all there is to this conversation. Use your sources, even from submission group websites. Just anything that shows Muslims are wrong in following the prophet's teachings and you are right in rejecting.

You have the ground now .. play at your own risk mate.

I asked this question of you earlier, so now you're turning it back on me? You're adorable sweetheart.

Here's what I said in case you missed it whilst Googling frantically for how you can survive in outer space without an oxygen tank or what brand of wine Jibreel was serving to the Messenger:

"Show me step by step without leaving out a single maneuver how to pray salaat just from hadiths."

 

[HouseofSamaale]

The principle is the same.

I think you have a particular agenda you seek to spread on here. No one is going to accept the nonsense you are peddling.

Are you saying the entire Ummah from the Prophet's time Sallalahu Alayhi Wasalam til our present time were deviants and idiots who had no understanding of Islam?

You are being extremely dishonest in the way you present your arguments. Am I to believe some random person in the present age has more understanding of Islam than the three blessed generations?

The first sign of a heretical sect is they claim the entire Ummah is wrong except them. The Muslims have always stuck to the sources of religion: the Qur'an and the Sunnah and to the inheritors of the Prophets, the scholars who interpreted and examined both of them.

Your belief-system goes beyond rejecting fabricated hadith. All Muslims reject fabrications. The stuff you are peddling is something more insidious. The funniest thing is you act exactly like the Wahabis you despise.

Islam isn't some DIY New Age philosophy where you can mix and match what you want. It has clear and specified rules of jurisprudence and theology. Authentic scholars (not Uni of Madinah graduates) spend their entire life studying and understanding the various sciences.

If you are genuine, then go and consult any authentic Sunni scholar. There are plenty of them about and they'd take your questions.

 

[BestCaseScenario]

The hadith says Jibreel offered him wine in the dunya, not the akhiro. Only a Quran rejector would think angels are khamro dispensers.

Nonintoxicating alcohol? Honey, you can buy alcohol free wine at the supermarket. You won't be intoxicated.

Why science? That's like saying why do you follow logic? Science is a record of what is true about the physical world. Am I supposed to follow blindly?

The Ibrahim story is in the Quran. The unicorn is not.

The Hadith you refer to was to let the prophet make a choice for himself and for his followers as he was presented with two options: Milk and Wine... And the prophet Chose the Milk instead of the Wine and Gabriel peace be Upon him was happy for the prophet to make such a choice.

This is in total contradiction to your lies as usual where you are either willfully lying, or don't understand anything that you read in propagandist website that twist Islamic Content to make Islam look bad etc..

Here is the Hadith in FULL, let people decide for what the Hadith teaches and its wisdom...

Abu Huraira reported: On the night of the Ascension, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, was presented with two vessels, one full of wine and the other full of milk. The Prophet looked at them both and he chose the vessel full of milk. The Angel Gabriel, upon him be peace, said, “All praise is due to Allah who has guided you to that which is natural, for had you selected the wine your nation would have been led astray.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 4432, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 168

Grade: agreed upon (authenticity agreed upon) according to Al-Bukhari and Muslim

عن أبي هريرة إِنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أُتِيَ لَيْلَةَ أُسْرِيَ بِهِ بِإِيلِيَاءَ بِقَدَحَيْنِ مِنْ خَمْرٍ وَلَبَنٍ فَنَظَرَ إِلَيْهِمَا فَأَخَذَ اللَّبَنَ فَقَالَ لَهُ جِبْرِيلُ عَلَيْهِ السَّلَام الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي هَدَاكَ لِلْفِطْرَةِ لَوْ أَخَذْتَ الْخَمْرَ غَوَتْ أُمَّتُكَ

4432 صحيح البخاري كتاب تفسير القرآن سورة بني إسرائيل باب قوله أسرى بعبده ليلا من المسجد الحرام

168 صحيح مسلم كتاب الإيمان باب الإسراء برسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إلى السماوات وفرض الصلوات