Somalia’s New President Had a Tangible Role In Somaliland’s Genocide says Muse Bihi Abdi

[Steamdevolopment]

Isaac and Hawiye not on the same level, we're targets.

Isaacs were being ethnically cleansed. And were refugees in their own land.

And let's never forget the terror said brought upon Xamar when he shot at protesting students. Door knocking dragging out fathers in the streets and executing them.

We can't justify what happened after the regime was toppled but nothing happens in vacuum. If we're gonna look at Somalia post 90s then we must figure out what went wrong pre 90s and a lot of people refuse to do that out if qabilyaal.

One clan can't mend their own pain but we have to mend each other and how do we do that if we're pointing fingers.

Wrong happend on both sides, now we must pave a way forward so our children don't have to suffer the fate, that we did.

I don't blame all Hawyie for the wrongs that happend against my father's side of the family nor Marrehan for the wrongs that happend on my mother side. We must forgive to move on.

We, truly do need a truth and reconciliation committee the like of South Africa to heal the wounds and seek justice for those lost including imprisoning people such as Morgan and Muse Bihi for their crimes against the Somali people, but one of them might be President by the end of this year.

But I told u it happened to my own family. My aunt witnessed it with her own eyes. Anyway, there's no reasoning with u, ur like XamarCade, just another one of those sociopathic Somalis who would kill, rape and loot with no remorse if rule of law broke down, I'm sure of it.

I guess the one good thing that's come out of this thread is that the fake nationalists have shown their true colors. Come on, how can you overlook the plight & destruction of your own people?

They are young and proud, one day they might see their wrongs but don't prejudge them as hopeless, otherwise it will foster hate.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

I guess the one good thing that's come out of this thread is that the fake nationalists have shown their true colors. Come on, how can you overlook the plight & destruction of your own people?

 

[TheMadMullah]

But I told u it happened to my own family. My aunt witnessed it with her own eyes. Anyway, there's no reasoning with u, ur like XamarCade, just another one of those sociopathic Somalis who would kill, rape and loot with no remorse if rule of law broke down, I'm sure of it.

Actually I'm have always been against abdulahi Yusuf even though clan wise we are related and under barre my clan suffered equally. But still i don't buy lullaby stories iam a man of facts so no i will never back anyone on clan bases nor on fabricated history!

 

[jugjugwacwac]

It was disproportionate indeed and wrong of the government regardless even if it thought it had a rational basis, which I would doubt in such a situation.

I am sorry for what you had to go trough regardless, that should not get lost.

This is where we disagree. To me disproportionate means over doing something when less would have the same result. This implies that one has the same aim whether he's being proportionate or disportionate. So in this context being disproportionate for example would be using a large bomb that can take out two to three houses when the target with SNM inside is only one house and a smaller bomb could do.

But in the example I gave, about ISaaq civilian women being rounded up and being executed, how is that disproportionate force when the aim isn't even to kill or flush out rebels? To call it disproportionate force is to minimize how evil it is. Instead of saying disproportionate force u should acknowledge that Isaaq civilians were targeted, whether SNM were in the area or not, just like the Daarood were targeted in Xamar in 1991.

 

[merka]

Then we agree but as true Somalis use several hours to discuss
I am not justifying it merely nuancing it and trying to bring the Farmaajo qoute into context that can explain it rationally.

Nigga, do you understand what the words disproportionate use of force and not furthering a legitimate aim means?

It is the test for which government policies are held to based on four criteria used by both the EU court, the Court of human rights, and the Danish court:


1: There must be a legitimate aim for a measure
2: The measure must be suitable to achieve the aim (potentially with a requirement of evidence to show it will have that effect
3: The measure must be necessary to achieve the aim, that there cannot be any less onerous way of doing is
4: The measure must be reasonable, considering the competing interests of different groups at hand

The human rights court and the danish court combine the last two.

Anyways, the bombing were aimed a legitimate aim: Removing violent rebels, so they didn't destroy the government, but fails the criteria as it could be done less onerous way and it is not reasonable to target a whole groups for use of force, when the rebel are limited to a small group and it could be done by more targeted attacks.

Never the less, we have to move on to built better relations for the future but try to understand the legal train of thought.

Hargeisa bombings didn't violate any human rights

There's no point in responding to you.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

This is where we disagree. To me disproportionate means over doing something when less would have the same result. This implies that one has the same aim whether he's being proportionate or disportionate. So in this our context being disproportionate for example would be using a large bomb that can take out two to three houses when the target with SNM inside is only house and a smaller bomb could do.

But in the example I gave, about ISaaq civilian women being rounded up and being executed, how is that disproportionate force when the aim isn't even to kill or flush out rebels? To call it disproportionate force is to minimize how evil it is. Instead of saying disproportionate force u should acknowledge that Isaaq civilians were targeted, whether SNM in the are or not, just like the Daarood were targeted in Xamar in 1991.

Disproportionate here should in this context be understood as not further a legitimate aim, as any action that fails that over use forces is disproportionate regardless of whether rational basis exits, which it is how it is understood in legal terms by example in Haag, where I worked.

I think they initially targeted rebels, then grew unto anyone associated with rebels by blood, then lineage and lastly by clan for arbitrary reasons.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

As long as isaaqs push fake auschwitz victimhood nothing will be fixed and the dream of uncoming ictiraaf will continue... btw barre hanged his own cousin and one of the so called sheikhs killed was his clan member and even subclan

I never claimed Siyaad Barre was a clannist. The man wasn't. He just wanted to crush anyone who threatened his rule. I don't believe he ordered the targeting of Isaaq civilians. But it was people like Morgan, Tuke and other evil men who ordered the targeting of civilians Isaaqs for clan reasons.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

Hargeisa bombings didn't violate any human rights

There's no point in responding to you.

I just said they did because they failed the proportionality part of the test .

I have worked in Haag on cases, where the Serbian government officals were arguing that they forfilled a ration basis action to combat what they saw as terrorist but were found in violation of human rights because it was disportionate use of force.

I agree with you in part and you still find a way to insult me but I blame your poor reading comprehension and felony charge :siilaanyosmile:

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Disproportionate here should in this context be understood as not further a legitimate aim, as any action that fails that over use forces is disproportionate regardless of whether rational basis exits, which it is how it is understood in legal terms by example in Haag, where I worked.

I think they initially targeted rebels, then grew unto anyone associated with rebels by blood, then lineage and lastly by clan for arbitrary reasons.

Ok then we agree. It was just semantics.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Ur letting clan sentiment take hold of u. I mean in our primitive Somali justice system the SNM killing was more understandable than the USC killing of Daaroods since they viewed it as revenge. Despite this they still didn't go ham like the USC and decided to restrain themselves. They ended up calling all Northern clans to a peace conference in Burco. So I wasn't justying what the SNM did, I'm saying it's more understandable within the Somali context/justice system when compared to the actions of the USC. But regardless killing civilians is always wrong and I recognize what they did as crimes.

For example, the Dhulbahante want to leave Somaliland. If they wage a serious armed resistance against Somaliland and the Somaliland government responds by destroying Buuhodle and Laascaanood and targets Dhulbahante civilians, it would be understandable to me if the Dhulbahante rebels sought revenge by killing ISaaq civilians if they were successful in defeating the Somaliland government. It wouldn't make it right, but as Somalis we're just savage like that so it makes sense in a Somali context unfortunately.

P.S. I've already said about three times now in this thread that the Siyaad Barre government had a rational and justified basis to flush out the rebels in the north, and any civilians who died as collateral would be fine with me.

You guys tried to take Buuhoodle and we left you all in mass graves in Kalshaale, with hundreds dead. You needed Ethiopia's intervention to help you fight us, your Somaliland general went on the BBC and called us Al Shabaab terrorists! LMAO. This is a divided Dhulbahante, between Khaatumo, Puntland & Somaliland.

Do you actually think that the SNM could actually fight against the Dhulbahante during the civil war when we were united? Who the f*ck do you think inherited the military bases in Sool(Dharkayn Geenyo) and Buuhoodle? We were selling arms on the black market to everybody else thats how much weapons we had. Your treasonous Ethiopian rebel group only attacked women, children and unarmed men.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

You guys tried to take Buuhoodle and we left you all in mass graves in Kalshaale, with hundreds dead. You needed Ethiopia's intervention to help you fight us, your Somaliland general went on the BBC and called us Al Shabaab terrorists! LMAO. This is a divided Dhulbahante, between Khaatumo, Puntland & Somaliland.

Do you actually think that the SNM could actually fight against the Dhulbahante during the civil war when we were united? Who the f*ck do you think inherited the military bases in Sool(Dharkayn Geenyo) and Buuhoodle? We were selling arms on the black market to everybody else thats how much weapons we had.

lol Bro I'm not a primitive Zoomaali like you. f*ck Isaaq and Dhulbahante both, u think I care about these bullshit clans? Adigay kula waynyihiin ee futada iska gali.

 

[TheMadMullah]

I never claimed Siyaad Barre was a clannist. The man wasn't. He just wanted to crush anyone who threatened his rule. I don't believe he ordered the targeting of Isaaq civilians. But it was people like Morgan, Tuke and other evil men who ordered the targeting of civilians Isaaqs for clan reasons.

So will you acknowledge what your isaaq clan did to the darood and the gudabirsis ( 5000 in less than a month killed) who were not armed and only targeted being accused as collaborators unlike the snm who were armed at the time when the regime targeted them!

 

[Steamdevolopment]

Ok then we agree. It was just semantics.

In law 99 % is semantic differences and they make a huge differences in the out-come of a case.

How do you think we should go forward as a people, or do you view yourself as a distinct people? How do you feel about Muse bihi becomming President in next SL election?

 

[Somali psycho]

This is where we disagree. To me disproportionate means over doing something when less would have the same result. This implies that one has the same aim whether he's being proportionate or disportionate. So in this context being disproportionate for example would be using a large bomb that can take out two to three houses when the target with SNM inside is only one house and a smaller bomb could do.

But in the example I gave, about ISaaq civilian women being rounded up and being executed, how is that disproportionate force when the aim isn't even to kill or flush out rebels? To call it disproportionate force is to minimize how evil it is. Instead of saying disproportionate force u should acknowledge that Isaaq civilians were targeted, whether SNM were in the area or not, just like the Daarood were targeted in Xamar in 1991.

no point of arguing with some of these people because we all know what happened, and it's well documented in the archives of history.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

lol Bro I'm not a primitive Zoomaali like you. f*ck Isaaq and Dhulbahante both, u think I care about these bullshit clans? Adigay kula waynyihiin ee futada iska gali.

When they toppled the regime the Daarood and Gadabuursi were at the complete mercy of the SNM.

I am talking about facts, you said that the Darood were at the complete mercy of the SNM. SNM was in the mercy of Dhulbahante sub clans, and you are talking about Darood.

You captured all of Gadabursi land because they were miskeen whilst we used your lands as military bases. The SNM was nothing more than an Ethiopian sponsored rebel group that killed innocent women, children and unarmed men for being faqash.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

In law is 99 % semantics differences and they make a huge differences in the out-come of a case.

How do you think we should go forward as a people, or do you view yourself as a distinct people? How do you feel about Muse bihi becomming President in next SL election?

What????? Wallahi I thought I really made my presence on this forum felt and that my views were well-known to all, but I guess it was just delusions of grandeur after all lol. Of all people I can't believe I was asked this question...where did it all go so wrong?

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

lol Bro I'm not a primitive Zoomaali like you. f*ck Isaaq and Dhulbahante both, u think I care about these bullshit clans? Adigay kula waynyihiin ee futada iska gali.

You've spoken the truth walaal, these xayawans need to be civilised.


Insha'allah there will be no qabiil in the new Somali Reich.

 

[Bahal]

You've spoken the truth walaal, these xayawans need to be civilised.


Insha'allah there will be no qabiil in the new Somali Reich.

 

[Steamdevolopment]

What????? Wallahi I thought really made my presence on this forum and that my views were well-known to all, but I guess it was just delusions of grandeur after all lol. Of all people I can't believe I was asked this question...where did it go so wrong?

You didn't answer Come one, I don't have all day

Are you Somali hating guy, calling us s?

You've spoken the truth walaal, these xayawans need to be civilised.


Insha'allah there will be no qabiil in the new Somali Reich.

Reich? Does that mean blond eyed regime?

Come get me and bring to this blond-eyed, reich. I'll be serving like you've never seen

 

[jugjugwacwac]

I am talking about facts, you said that the Darood were at the complete mercy of the SNM. SNM was in the mercy of Dhulbahante sub clans, and you are talking about Darood.

You captured all of Gadabursi land because they were miskeen whilst we used your lands as military bases. The SNM was nothing more than an Ethiopian sponsored rebel group that killed innocent women, children and unarmed men for being faqash.

U think I'm saying ur clan was at the mercy of the SNM because I want to feel all big and bad as an Isaaq, but personally I don't seek pride from qabiil. Any observation I make about qabiils is just my objective reading of the situation and of history. Based on what I know it's a fact that in 1991 after the SNm and USC toppled Siyaad Barres government that the Dhulbahante were in a significantly weaker position than the SNM.

If u think I'm biased or that I give a shit about qabiil, well i'll be the first one to tell u Somaliland is Ethiopia's . Sxb I don't care for qabiil, if I did we both know I wouldn't be able to admit that. I'm Ciidagale and wallahi a Ciidagale man and a man from ur clan, the Dhulbahante, r the same to me, I don't feel any closer to the Ciidagale at all.