J1 update (Big Y)! Could some Hartis be relatives of the Yemeni/Saudi tribe Khawlan?

[Misil]

No.

Those sounds are not from South Semitic speakers.

Kh is from Arabic though, the rest are Somali and present in other Cushitic languages.

What would explain their absence in oromo or maay?

 

[Nilotufian]

Since autosomal DNA said no to Arab myth y’all moved onto Y DNA haplogroups huh

 

[EDsomali]

What would explain their absence in oromo or maay?

Languages diverge differently.

Some sounds change, some remain.

That's all.

The only sound that isn't Cushitic in Somali is Kh.

 

[Cam]

Languages diverge differently.

Some sounds change, some remain.

That's all.

The only sound that isn't Cushitic in Somali is Kh.

And reer Waqooyi claim they speak the "correct" dialect
what a joke

 

[riyaale]

Languages diverge differently.

Some sounds change, some remain.

That's all.

The only sound that isn't Cushitic in Somali is Kh.

kh sound is abundant in rendille and baiso. also in other afro asiatic languages like tuareg, Egyptian et cetra

 

[riyaale]

Listen https://hearnames.com/pronunciations/rendille-names/page7

 

[riyaale]

kh sound in borana

 

[riyaale]

Kh sound in rendille

 

[EDsomali]

kh sound is abundant in rendille and baiso. also in other afro asiatic languages like tuareg, Egyptian et cetra

Kh is an afroasiatic sound.

But it's not of Somali origin.

Southern Somalis don't use Kh at all in their dialects, only northern Somalis.

And they seem to predominately use Kh for Arabic loan words.

 

[Cuneo]

Somali autosomal DNA is the same amongst Somalis with T and those without it.

T was the product of an assimilated South Semitic population that lived in Northern Somalia before Somalis migrated from the South.

Any Proof for this? Why is T1a practically non-existent in the Arabian Peninsula (particularly Yemen) then?

There's still a lot to learn about this haplogroup. It is severely under-researched compared to other y-haplogroups.

There could’ve been an ancient dispersal out of Yemen. We don’t know for sure.

The “Somali specific” subclade is present in the Arabian Peninsula albeit more common in the eastern Mediterranean and Iraq/Kuwait.

 

[EDsomali]

There could’ve been an ancient dispersal out of Yemen. We don’t know for sure.

The “Somali specific” subclade is present in the Arabian Peninsula albeit more common in the eastern Mediterranean and Iraq/Kuwait.

I think the other T samples in Cushitic speaking populations will have a different subclade to the Somali one which was from a recent South-Semitic population (T-Y45591).

 

[riyaale]

Kh is an afroasiatic sound.

But it's not of Somali origin.

Southern Somalis don't use Kh at all in their dialects, only northern Somalis.

And they seem to predominately use Kh for Arabic loan words.

khaafsan, khaash, khaati, khaatir, khalfad, khatal, khoori, khuuro, barkhad

 

[Cuneo]

I think the other T samples in Cushitic speaking populations will have a different subclade to the Somali one which was from a recent South-Semitic population.

That seems to be the current trend but it could change. What if some untested Somalis carry other subclades? We need more testing..


We don’t know if the ancestors of HG-T carrying Somalis were south Semitic even though there’s plenty of evidence of South Semitic (Sabean and Himyarite) presence in modern day Somaliland which is also where HG-T seems to have its main domain alongside adjacent Djibouti and northwestern parts of the Somali region of Ethiopia.


Another interesting group is the Semitic speaking Harla even though they officially went extinct quite recently which kinda rules out my personal theory...

 

[Prince Abubu]

That seems to be the current trend but it could change. What if some untested Somalis carry other subclades? We need more testing..


We don’t know if the ancestors of HG-T carrying Somalis were south Semitic even though there’s plenty of evidence of South Semitic (Sabean and Himyarite) presence in modern day Somaliland which is also where HG-T seems to have its main domain alongside adjacent Djibouti and northwestern parts of the Somali region of Ethiopia.


Another interesting group is the Semitic speaking Harla even though they officially went extinct quite recently which kinda rules out my personal theory...

But the thing is, northern Somalis don't have any recent Eurasian DNA and they are indistinguishable from the rest of Somalis wrt autosomal DNA, so that can't be the case surely?

If the Somali subclade of T-haplogroup is Semitic, it must predate even the Habesha Semitic ancestry by thousands of years.

 

[ladySomal206]

View attachment 78969

What is interesting is that your J1 does not match the J1 of the Jeberti / Jabarti tribe of Eritrea. People often link this Jeberti tribe to the Al-Jabarti name of the Darod. Seems like that theory is now also debunked.

Eritrean Jeberti J1: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z18258/

Yours: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS5383/

Not the same 'tribe' so to speak.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeberti_people

Interesting

I’d really like some more info on the al Jabartis from Eritrea and Ethiopia. This sample you provided is it in FTDNA? I’d like to compare as an admin in one of the groups is suggesting jahm Banū jabar is the same thing as Jabarti and we should put darood jaberti on our kit. He explained the names and snps match.

 

[Apollo]

View attachment 78969

I’d really like some more info on the al Jabartis from Eritrea and Ethiopia. This sample you provided is it in FTDNA? I’d like to compare as an admin in one of the groups is suggesting jahm Banū jabar is the same thing as Jabarti and we should put darood jaberti on our kit. He explained the names and snps match.

I doubt Banu Jabr Khawlan and Al-Jabarti (a Hashemite) are the same tribe. It seems more like a coincidence than a real connection. Never heard of this tribe before.

The kit number of the Eritrean Jabarti is M9290. He is in various Arab / J projects. His subclade is thousands of years apart from yours and therefore not the same tribe. As for these Jabr guys, do you have a TMRCA? If it is more than 1,500 years before present I doubt it proves the Darod Al-Jabarti story.

 

[ladySomal206]

View attachment 78969

I’d really like some more info on the al Jabartis from Eritrea and Ethiopia. This sample you provided is it in FTDNA? I’d like to compare as an admin in one of the groups is suggesting jahm Banū jabar is the same thing as Jabarti and we should put darood jaberti on our kit. He explained the names and snps match.

I doubt Banu Jabr Khawlan and Al-Jabarti (a Hashemite) are the same tribe. It seems more like a coincidence than a real connection. Never heard of this tribe before.

The kit number of the Eritrean Jabarti is M9290. He is in various Arab / J projects. His subclade is thousands of years apart from yours and therefore not the same tribe. As for these Jabr guys, do you have a TMRCA? If it is more than 1,500 years before present I doubt it proves the Darod Al-Jabarti story.

With the next yfull update we will have a clearer answer on a TMRCA, however based on estimates it’s between 800-1400 years.

Also the Hashemite Connection isn’t a must to the “al Jabarti story”. There may be a connection maternally lol. I wouldn’t disregard the notion quite yet.

Some families who settled in the area took on the surname “Jabarti” – and as the author of Aqeeliyoon (The Descendants of Aqeel) writes; the surname doesn’t necessarily signify (Hashemite) lineage but rather that they were once residents of the popular city.

There is also a city named “Jabra” 40 miles from Tarim, Hadramout , hence, we can verify that one of ancestors carried the laqb”Jabarti” because he was from Jabra. Hence, a Somali tribe of Darood al-Jabarti was explicitly discovered by Al-Masudi and his book of Aqeeliyoon hypothesizes that Darood comes from Dawud and they are descendants of Dawud b. Ismail b. Ibrahim al-Jabarti – the previously mentioned saint buried in Zabeed.

 

[Geeljire Sandheer]

@Geeljire sanbuur

You need to do this test sxb.

Ive done it couple months ago i got em96

 

[ladySomal206]

Ive done it couple months ago i got em96

Hey brother what test did you do? Are you into Somali DNA stuff or researching for your own?

 

[EDsomali]

Ive done it couple months ago i got em96

Not the 23andme test.

The yFull test sxb.

Its quite expensive though, $600