arabisation

[Al hashimi]

It's not Sabaean but most likely the result of intra-Horn mixing and comes from Xabashis ultimately and it's only 5-10%. Either that or it's not even actually Arabian but is ancient Egyptian ancestry that came from Nubia with things like farming, the plough and other innovations into the Horn around 2000BCE with Y-DNA E-Z813 because some runs where both Ancient Egyptian and Yemeni samples are used show the Somalis showing AE ancestry but no Yemeni ancestry while the Yemeni ancestry in Xabashis and other Horners is depressed in favor of some AE ancestry. Either way, ancient Ethiosemitic and AE ancestry is not "Arab".

Somalia is located in the Horn of Africa (Somalia, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Eritrea,), a historic site for human migrations into either direction of Africa or Eurasia10,11,12,13. Rock art paintings in multiple sites of Northern Somalia show Neolithic human activities in this part of East Africa14,15. Later Himyarite and Sabaean inscriptions found in the same Somali region suggest existence of socio-cultural mingling with the ancient Axumite-South Arabian sphere15. Due to the geographic location of Somalia, the Somalis have both African and non-African ancestries12,13,16,17.

 

[Al hashimi]

"Principal component analysis with PLINK software showed approximately 60% East African and 40% West Eurasian genes in the Somali population, with a close relation to the Cushitic and Semitic speaking Ethiopian populations."

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Somalia has been a mess for a while, since 1969 for most of us, for others it started in 1991, but this failure doesn't mean you have to cosplay like another race/ethnic group.

Somali baan nahay, that's enough.

 

[Shimbiris]

"Principal component analysis with PLINK software showed approximately 60% East African and 40% West Eurasian genes in the Somali population, with a close relation to the Cushitic and Semitic speaking Ethiopian populations."

Walaal, I've been in the pop genetics game since before most of the people in this thread were even in High-School and I've run genetic models myself. Somalis are about 45% MENA and about 38-40% actual Eurasian indeed and anyone who knows what they're talking about will tell you that the vast majority of that is pre-historic and from Neolithic or Paleolithic Egypt and 5-10% is either ancient Yemeni or Bronze-Age Egyptian both of which seem to have come from mixing with other Horners and not Arabians.

The only sign I see of straight Arabian ancestry in Somalis is our T-L208 subclade which seems like it originated in South Arabia and came to our coast some 2,000 or so years ago, probably with camel domestication, zebu admixture into our cattle and other such things.

 

[Shimbiris]

@Al hashimi

No cap, if Ethiopia were mostly Muslim I would fully support a Horn unification and then a unification with Sudan alongside an adoption of Arabic as a lingua franca:

@Apollo

I weep at how the Xabash were not Islamized during the conquest 500 years ago. Imagine, walaal... we could have maybe had one nation between the Horn and Sudan. With that much land and peoples we could have been a mighty power that could wrestle the lands south of Aswan from the Masris and maybe bloody Aswan itself along with all of northern Kenya from the Brits and Bantus.

Imagine a nation from Aswan to Ijara and from Xaafuun to al-Junaynah, home to the civilization of the ancient Nubians, Aksum, the Barbaroi city-states, the Muslim Sultanates of the Horn like the Ajuuraan and Adal, the Abyssinian Empire, the Christian Nubian Kingdoms, the Blemmyes and Medjay of ancient legend and so much more alongside many interesting peoples like the Oromos, Sidamics and Omotics. Everything from green highlands to volcanic deserts to savannahs boasting all the wildlife diversity Kenya flexes at the gaalo to the Nile Valley itself and beaches, beaches and beaches! Not to mention a population potential well-over 200 million if we played our agricultural cards right.

I'd have gladly accepted Arabic as a lingua franca for such a glorious nation that could be a juggernaut on the world stage alongside the likes of India and China. 5,000 kilometers from north to south and east to west. Bismillah. Geeljires think too small with this Somaliweyn business. This was where it was at, saaxiib. Christianity fudging shizzle up like always.

I am a troubled man, walaal. I weep for a nation that never was but should have been!

 

[Som]

at least tell me how im wrong because somalis have sabean DNA
everyone thinks we're arab so might aswl say we are plustheyre based

Most arabs wonder why we are in the Arab league cause we are black and don't speak arabic

 

[Nikka]

@Al hashimi

No cap, if Ethiopia were mostly Muslim I would fully support a Horn unification and then a unification with Sudan alongside an adoption of Arabic as a lingua franca:



I am a troubled man, walaal. I weep for a nation that never was but should have been!

f*ck that id rather keep our language.

 

[Al hashimi]

Walaal, I've been in the pop genetics game since before most of the people in this thread were even in High-School and I've run genetic models myself. Somalis are about 45% MENA and about 38-40% actual Eurasian indeed and anyone who knows what they're talking about will tell you that the vast majority of that is pre-historic and from Neolithic or Paleolithic Egypt and 5-10% is either ancient Yemeni or Bronze-Age Egyptian both of which seem to have come from mixing with other Horners and not Arabians.

The only sign I see of straight Arabian ancestry in Somalis is our T-L208 subclade which seems like it originated in South Arabia and came to our coast some 2,000 or so years ago, probably with camel domestication, zebu admixture into our cattle and other such things.

YOU vs reliable source walaal?

 

[ZBR]

at least tell me how im wrong because somalis have sabean DNA
everyone thinks we're arab so might aswl say we are plustheyre based

Sarbeans are the laangab of semites , rather associate with Red Sea Hejaz Arabs

 

[ZBR]

Teaching Arabic as a lingua franca would be would be a boon for education trade and intrarelation for us worldwide

I agree w that

 

[Shimbiris]

YOU vs reliable source walaal?

My point was that you're not going to get me with something as simplistic as sharing a study you don't even seem to know how to read. Do you know how ADMIXTURE, formal stats or any of those things relating population genetics work? Quoting a study and acting like that concludes any discussion isn't acceptable, walaal. Papers aren't immutable and the authors themselves would tell you as much. Besides, no study I know of posits that all the admixture in Somalis comes from South Arabia and if it does the authors are imbeciles. Run some models yourself using nMonte or message someone like Iosif Lazaridis at Harvard Med. What I told you is common knowledge and verifiable with no more than your internet browser.

 

[Al hashimi]

Sarbeans are the laangab of semites , rather associate with Red Sea Hejaz Arabs

if ur not darood than ur based qahtani arab

 

[Al hashimi]

My point was that you're not going to get me with something as simplistic as sharing a study you don't even seem to know how to read. Do you know how ADMIXTURE, formal stats or any of those things relating population genetics work? Quoting a study and acting like that concludes any discussion isn't acceptable, walaal. Papers aren't immutable and the authors themselves would tell you as much. Besides, no study I know of posits that all the admixture in Somalis comes from South Arabia and if it does the authors are imbeciles. Run some models yourself using nMonte or message someone like Iosif Lazaridis at Harvard Med. What I told you is common knowledge and verifiable with no more than your internet browser.

It talks about the fact that somalis have a good portion of south Arabian DNA maybe from sabean migration but somalis retained their language unlike habashas assimilated cushites who adopted the language aswll

 

[Shimbiris]

It talks about the fact that somalis have a good portion of south Arabian DNA maybe from sabean migration but somalis retained their language unlike habashas assimilated cushites who adopted the language aswll

And what I told you is common known fact and has been for years. Just go to genomics communities like Anthrogenica or ask some competent authors at Harvard Med if you're fixated with appeal to authority even though can run these models for yourself. Somalis are 45% MENA and 38-40% Eurasian proper. Most of that is overwhelmingly from pre-historic times (Neolithic or earlier) and originated in Sudan when our ancestors migrated from there:

I don't know where people would ever have gotten such an impression. Horners ourselves are literally North-Sudanese. Our ancestors lived there before around 3000 BCE then migrated down to the Horn which explains why around 3000 BCE the Horn suddenly goes from being in the Paleolithic to there being cattle, goat, sheep and donkey pastoralism with grain collecting & processing, shepherd/hunting dogs, pottery, bows and arrows and all the other stuff like burial mounds, dolmens, rock-carvings, cave-paintings... no place makes that drastic a cultural shift that fast and the linguistic evidence strongly points to an origin in the Sudanese Neolithic:

The evidence that Proto-sahelian borrowed its words for “goat” from an already distinct ancestral beja language in the later seventh millennium6 supports the conclusion that the initial divergence of Proto-Cushitic into the Beja (North Cushitic) branch and Agäw-East-South-Cushitic branches began before 6500 BCE - History and the Testimony of Language by Christopher Ehret​

So even as early 5,000-6,000 years ago at the minimum, Sudan was already looking like a Nilotic - Middle-Eastern intermixture on a genetic level and I reckon it clearly stayed that way eversince. Especially along areas like the Red Sea hills and what is regarded as Nubia. All that happened is that new admixture elements got tacked on. Like historic period Egyptian, Islamic period Arabian and West-African ancestry carrying Nilotic elements.

Most of the MENA ancestry in Somalis is shared even with Sudanese Nubians and Bejas as recent studies show, walaal. It's extremely ancient and not from Yemen. Only about 5-10% seems to possibly be from South-Arabia and even then it seems very clear from the models that it was mediated within the Horn itself as in we got it from mixing with groups like Sidamics or Ethiosemites or Oromos and not from Arabians directly.

 

[Saciid]

And what I told you is common known fact and has been for years. Just go to genomics communities like Anthrogenica or ask some competent authors at Harvard Med if you're fixated with appeal to authority even though can run these models for yourself. Somalis are 45% MENA and 38-40% Eurasian proper.

Which route did Somalis take to Somaliweyn and where was Somaloid formed? North-western Somaliweyn? Bayso has an oral story where they claim they came from Jigjiga area to Gofa gamo where they are today

Most of that is overwhelmingly from pre-historic times (Neolithic or earlier) and originated in Sudan when our ancestors migrated from there:

How early are we talking ab?

 

[Al hashimi]

Yh but the article sites the connection between saba and Somalia plus it compares DNA to other horn Africans like haveshas indicating it was not as far as you think

 

[reer]

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[Garaad diinle]

Which route did Somalis take to Somaliweyn and where was Somaloid formed? North-western Somaliweyn? Bayso has an oral story where they claim they came from Jigjiga area to Gofa gamo where they are today

Wait what do you know about bayso oral stories can you refer me to your source?
Did they actually say jigjiga by name.

 

[Shimbiris]

Which route did Somalis take to Somaliweyn and where was Somaloid formed? North-western Somaliweyn? Bayso has an oral story where they claim they came from Jigjiga area to Gofa gamo where they are today

Wallahi, I don't know for sure. Christopher Ehret, as you probably know, believes Koonfur or the more southern end of Galbeed is roughly the homeland but I don't find that plausible and there's no proof of some Saho-Afar or whatever other substrate in North-Central Somali dialects and it makes little sense to me that they migrated northward 1,500 years ago then started expanding southwards again as early 1,000 years ago or so. And we do have the Futux that shows that the tribal makeup of north-western galbeed was already mostly established 500 years ago but yeah, I don't really know. I personally suspect NW Galbeed or Galbeed in general probably is where Somaloids mainly coalesced and expanded out of, though.

How early are we talking ab?

It seems Cushites first started entering the Horn just a bit before 3000 BCE as around 3000 BCE is when we start seeing signs of them everywhere from Woqooyi to Koonfur to all over the highlands where they left cave paintings, rock carvings, stelae, cairns and burial mounds but it seems based on the South-Cushite samples that we have that they may have been somewhat genetically diverse and come in waves so we don't know when specifically the Agaw-East-South Cushitic branch truly entered but probably by ~2000 BCE at least as that seems to be when our E-Z813 Y-DNA breaks off from folks who were likely in Sudan. I suspect the bulk of our ancestors were already in the Horn before that and there was just another migration of Cushites from Sudan after that who admixed into us. Wallahi, I need to refresh myself and do more research on this, inshallah. A lot to parse out.

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I did a whole thread on this, walaal. It was commonplace in Arabia historically. They have the same basic culture as us and other Horners in this respect, to be honest. Many Berbers were similar as well. Even in the nabi's (SAW) day things like blacksmithing, potting, carpentry and masonry were looked down upon and mostly done by out-caste tribes or ajanabis. Madinah's crafts folk back then were apparently overwhelmingly ajanabi as I link to in my thread.

 

[Laagite]

I believe somalia should undergo some arabisation
Somali should be written in arabic and Arabic should be taught and will be on tv channels so the language is extremely common
The flag should also be a mix of somaliland and somali so there is arab and cushitic element
Somali qabiils should do DNA tests and the qabil closer to a yemeni tribe should say eg Isaaq was 'Azd or sum apart from daroods as we are banu hashim

I support this boqolki boqol