The Sun orbits the Earth, and the Moon does too.

[Hodan from HR]

@lilmoon

If the earth remains stationary, how do you explain why some parts of the world experience the four seasons while the same is not observed around the equator?

 

[Omar del Sur]

okay I just started an apparently this is the guy who came up with the "dinosaur" thing. LOOK AT THIS GUY. this guy looks evil as hell! no way do I trust this guy. this guy was probably some white supremacist psychopath slash militant atheist. I wouldn't be surprised if they said he was a serial killer. some people you can just look at and they just look evil. if I was walking down the street and this guy came walking towards me, I think I'd cross the street.

 

[lilmoon]

@lilmoon

If the earth remains stationary and the sun is the only thing moving, how do you explain why some parts of the world experience the four seasons while those in the equator don't?

Because the Sun still is in contact with the equator while it is moving. And the Sun is larger than the Earth, which means that its large enough to cover its light across whole continents in the world, so it can move around and put places into darkness by setting and light by rising, and still keep its heat for the places in the equator.

 

[Taij4an]

I don't think that's how it works. In the days of Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah (for example), I don't think there was any dispute on the subject. Come and show any major scholar besides Sheikh Albaani who claimed the contrary.

The thing is I dont know how many major scholars you can name except for the famous ones in saudi arabia.
And even if you can I don't think you would be able to find out there opinion on the issue

 

[Taij4an]

Because the Sun still is in contact with the equator while it is moving. And the Sun is larger than the Earth, which means that its large enough to cover its light across whole continents in the world, so it can move around and put places into darkness by setting and light by rising, and still keep its heat for the places in the equator.

that was a load of waffle.

 

[Taij4an]

Look none of this is about physics its about what Islam says, science is irrelevant to scholarly opinions, you cannot use science to prove your point.
If some scholars say the sun revolves around the earth I respect there opinon, if some say otherwise I respect theres.
Noone here is a physicist so stop having useless arguments

 

[lilmoon]

that was a load of waffle.

Ok, I'll simplify it. The Sun is larger than the Earth, therefore its light and heat can spread far, even across continents. Therefore, The Sun is able to set and rise while being mobile, and also keep some relative heat focused on the equator.

 

[Omar del Sur]

The thing is I dont know how many major scholars you can name except for the famous ones in saudi arabia.

Ibn Hazm, Ibn Taymiyyah, Imam Bukhari, Imam Nawawi, the one who wrote Fath Al-Bari.... some off the top of my head without looking anyone up....

but anyways, there's no reason to be prejudiced against scholars just because they're from Saudi. Saudi is huge and takes up a lot of the Arabian peninsula and the area where Islam started is located in what is today Saudi Arabia so of course it is no surprise that this area would produce a lot of the top Islamic scholars.

 

[Taij4an]

the one who wrote Fath Al-Bari

Ibn hajar

 

[lilmoon]

Look none of this is about physics its about what Islam says, science is irrelevant to scholarly opinions, you cannot use science to prove your point.
If some scholars say the sun revolves around the earth I respect there opinon, if some say otherwise I respect theres.
Noone here is a physicist so stop having useless arguments

But you were using science to prove your point. You kept on saying that I wasn't making sense and you kept on hitting back with the "didn't you learn physics in high school" and "basic physics says this" and the "gravitational potential" scientific jargon. If anything now you are contradicting yourself.

 

[Taij4an]

Ibn Hazm, Ibn Taymiyyah, Imam Bukhari, Imam Nawawi, the one who wrote Fath Al-Bari.... some off the top of my head without looking anyone up....

but anyways, there's no reason to be prejudiced against scholars just because they're from Saudi. Saudi is huge and takes up a lot of the Arabian peninsula and the area where Islam started is located in what is today Saudi Arabia so of course it is no surprise that this area would produce a lot of the top Islamic scholars.

My prejudice isnt against saudi, im saying you cant name 3 scholars all the time for every issue when there are hundreds of scholars around the world with other valid opinions, jus because they may not be known or have access to them to ask questions doesnt mean they all agree with each other, until I know that most scholars agree with the idea that the sun revolves around the earth I will not make a conclusion.
Also the Quran speaks from the human perspective alot, so the idea the sun moves around the earth from the human perspective as a way for us to understand Allahs blessings makes sense to me, because either the sun is moving or the earth or they are both moving, it is a matter of perspective as to which is revolving around which. I don't have a problem with scholars mentioning there opinion im not 100% on either side of the argument

 

[Taij4an]

But you were using science to prove your point. You kept on saying that I wasn't making sense and you kept on hitting back with the "didn't you learn physics in high school" and "basic physics says this" and the "gravitational potential" scientific jargon. If anything now you are contradicting yourself.

Yes because you were throwing scientific objections agiasnt me therefore I responded with the like of your objection

 

[lilmoon]

Yes because you were throwing scientific objections agiasnt me therefore I responded with the like of your objection

When??? I kept on saying that Allah says this and Allah says that the majority of the time. I even gave you a whole post of evidences from the Qur'an justifying my point. The most I said about science was how secular scientists were trying to brainwash you. You only provided like maybe 3 posts using Islamic evidence, other than that you were trying to argue that the Qur'an doesn't specifically state that the Sun orbits the Earth. Using stuff like gravity and physics and whatever, which by the way, IS MAN-MADE.

 

[Badboy4life]

The thing is I dont know how many major scholars you can name except for the famous ones in saudi arabia.
And even if you can I don't think you would be able to find out there opinion on the issue

All scholars from the time of the prophet scw up until now believed in the geocentric model, it's upon you to bring proofs from a scholar who didn't.

 

[Omar del Sur]

My prejudice isnt against saudi, im saying you cant name 3 scholars all the time for every issue

I think this goes back to this misconception that us Salafis that we are following this school of thought that was made up by Sheikh Ibn Baz and them or made up by Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah.

let me give an example. I remember I was reading a fatwa from Sheikh Fawzan and I wanted to check it. so I looked into it and it turned out that Imam Bukhari had given the exact same ruling.

that is how Salafiyyah works. they are following the most ancient understanding. if you really do your research, you can find that the modern day Salafi scholars- who are the ones upon the correct minhaj- that their views were followed by scholars throughout history.

generally, when you look at the ruling issued by the Salafi scholars- you can look at the rulings of the classical scholars and see that they gave the same rulings.

now, with this it's a little different because claiming the earth revolves around the sun is a modern thing. it's like asking me to give a fatwa from the classical scholars on television. but you go by the major scholars and if you have some other major scholars claiming that the earth revolves around the sun then come and show me these major scholars and their fataawa.

 

[Taij4an]

I think this goes back to this misconception that us Salafis that we are following this school of thought that was made up by Sheikh Ibn Baz and them or made up by Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah.

let me give an example. I remember I was reading a fatwa from Sheikh Fawzan and I wanted to check it. so I looked into it and it turned out that Imam Bukhari had given the exact same ruling.

that is how Salafiyyah works. they are following the most ancient understanding. if you really do your research, you can find that the modern day Salafi scholars- who are the ones upon the correct minhaj- that their views were followed by scholars throughout history.

generally, when you look at the ruling issued by the Salafi scholars- you can look at the rulings of the classical scholars and see that they gave the same rulings.

now, with this it's a little different because claiming the earth revolves around the sun is a modern thing. it's like asking me to give a fatwa from the classical scholars on television. but you go by the major scholars and if you have some other major scholars claiming that the earth revolves around the sun then come and show me these major scholars and their fataawa.

The thing is scholars in the past all had disagreements, following a opinion from the salaf does not automatically make you correct.
MY point is there is ikhtilaaf im not going to force one interpretation

 

[Taij4an]

All scholars from the time of the prophet scw up until now believed in the geocentric model, it's upon you to bring proofs from a scholar who didn't.

"All scholars", Did they believe it Islamically or due to common beliefs at the time, was it based on Quran or sunnah or was it something they believed due to contemporary knowledge and used Quran and hadith to confirm their belief?
Also I do not believe that all scholars would be so staunch on the position that the earth could not revolve around the sun. You would have to ask moderns scholars what the understanding is

 

[Omar del Sur]

The thing is scholars in the past all had disagreements, following a opinion from the salaf does not automatically make you correct.
MY point is there is ikhtilaaf im not going to force one interpretation

let's "cut to the chase"- you said that I follow the same three scholars. I at least cited some major scholars. and of course I am limited to more modern scholars as this issue wasn't disputed in the days of the classical scholars. I at least cited some major scholars. you have cited zero major scholars. what is bigger? three or zero? you have cited zero major scholars. if you have any major scholars (besides Albaani and I already addressed him) backing your view, then come bring them.

 

[Taij4an]

When??? I kept on saying that Allah says this and Allah says that the majority of the time. I even gave you a whole post of evidences from the Qur'an justifying my point. The most I said about science was how secular scientists were trying to brainwash you. You only provided like maybe 3 posts using Islamic evidence, other than that you were trying to argue that the Qur'an doesn't specifically state that the Sun orbits the Earth. Using stuff like gravity and physics and whatever, which by the way, IS MAN-MADE.

The point u were making is that modern day science and ppl are liars and we shouldn't trust them, the problem was that science is an ever developing field and u cant claim there are lying to force your interpretation of the Quran and sunnah.

 

[Taij4an]

let's "cut to the chase"- you said that I follow the same three scholars. I at least cited some major scholars. and of course I am limited to more modern scholars as this issue wasn't disputed in the days of the classical scholars. I at least cited some major scholars. you have cited zero major scholars. what is bigger? three or zero? you have cited zero major scholars. if you have any major scholars (besides Albaani and I already addressed him) backing your view, then come bring them.

Albaani made mistakes and still did sheikh fawzan and bin baz. ibn baz didnt even have eyesight would that not effect the way he perceives the world and describes motion, the scientific language is very specific, sheikh bin baz may not have articulated or understood what these claims were properly, but lets assume he had full comprehension.
You have 2 scholars who says yes, and 1 scholar disagreeing, you have other modern day students of knowledge saying there is ikhtilaaf, im not going to pick a side until I know it from 100% fact