Sardinians - Oldest European

[Prince Abubu]

Am I right in thinking that Sardinians are the closest non-africans population to Cushites?

Recent comparisons between the Sardinians' genome and that of some individuals from the Neolithic and the early Chalcolithic, who lived in the Alpine (Oetzi), German, and Hungarian regions, showed considerable similarities between the two populations, while at the same time consistent differences between the prehistoric samples and the present inhabitants of the same geographical areas were noted.[94] From this it can be deduced that, while central and northern Europe have undergone significant demographic changes due to post-Neolithic migrations, presumably from the eastern periphery of Europe (Pontic-Caspian steppe) and possibly from Scandinavia,[95] Southern Europe and Sardinia in particular were affected less; Sardinians appear to be the population that has best preserved the Neolithic legacy of Western Europe.[96][97][98][99][100][101][102][103][94] A 2015 study estimated that roughly 84% of the Sardinian ancestry derives from the Neolithic Europeans (a hybrid population of Mesolithic Europeans and Anatolianfarmers), while the remaining 16% derives from Late Neolithic/Bronze age Central Europeans (Neolithic Europeans mixed with steppe pastoralists).[102]:119

However, Sardinians as a whole are not a homogeneous population genetically: some studies have found some differences among the various villages of the island;[104] in this regard, the mountainous area of Ogliastra (part of the wider region of Barbagia) is more distant from the rest of Europe and the Mediterranean than other Sardinian sub-regions located in the plains and in the coastal areas,[105] in part because these more accessible areas show, like the rest of much of Europe, a moderate genetic influx from the Yamna culturepastoralists, thought to be the carriers of Indo-European languages into Europe, while Ogliastra has retained unaltered Mesolithic/Neolithic roots.[106]

According to a study released in 2014, the genetic diversity among some Sardinian individuals from different regions of the island is between 7 and 30 times higher than the one found among other European ethnicities living thousands kilometers away from each other, like Spaniards and Romanians.[107] A similar phenomenon is common to some other isolated populations, like the Ladingroups living in Veneto and the Alpine area,[108][109]where the regional orography negatively affected the amount of interactions among each other.

However, while a very high degree of interindividual genetic differentiation has been detected on multiple occasions, other studies have also stated that such variability does not occur among the main macro-regions of the island: a Sardinian region like the Barbagia has been proven not to be significantly different from the regions on the coast, like the area of Cagliari and Oristano.[93] Another study, based on the multinomial logistic regression model, suggested again a high degree of homogeneity within the Sardinian population.[110]

The SardiNIA study in 2015 showed, by using the FSTdifferentiation statistic, a clear genetic differentiation between Sardinians (whole genome sequence of 2120 individuals from across the island and especially the Lanusei valley) and mainland Italian populations (1000 genomes), and reported an even greater difference between Sardinians from the Lanusei valley and other European populations. This pattern of differentiation is also evident in the lengths for haplotypes surrounding rare variants loci, with a similar haplotype length for Sardinian populations and shorter length for populations with low grade of common ancestry.[111]

They seem to be made up almost exclusively, of neolithic near-eastern farmers. Somalis have about 30-45% neolithic Middle-eastern DNA.

 

[Grant]

Am I right in thinking that Sardinians are the closest non-africans population to Cushites?



They seem to be made up almost exclusively, of neolithic near-eastern farmers. Somalis have about 30-45% neolithic Middle-eastern DNA.

Don't forget the Mesolithic European input in Sardinia. Those high figures don't all derive from the Levant.

I am E-L29 (E1b1b1c1a), which is downstream from E-M123, which in Europe peaks in Sicily. My ancestors are from England, Denmark and Switzerland. My maternal line is U5a2a, downstream from mesolithic hunter-gatherers. This is from my 23andme:

'"Origin and Migrations of Haplogroup E-M123
Your paternal line traces back to the common ancestor of haplogroup E-M123, a man who may have lived in eastern Africa over 20,000 years ago. At some time during the next 10,000 years, some of his descendants migrated north to the Levant and the Middle East, where the lineage is quite common today. In fact, evidence once suggested that the southern Levant may have been the birthplace of the haplogroup. It was there, soon after the Ice Age drew to a close 11,500 years ago, that humans first learned to domesticate cereals and livestock, and completely transformed their way of life. In fact, farming and herding were such successful strategies that populations boomed, sparking waves of migration into Europe and Africa about 8,000 years ago. Some of those men likely bore the E-M123 haplogroup, and as they migrated they introduced not only their technology and culture, but also the paternal lineage.

Today, some of the highest concentrations of men bearing haplogroup E-M123 and its diverse branches are found in eastern Africa, where they make up between 5 and 10% of men in parts of Ethiopia, Kenya, and Somalia. Farther east, nearly 10% of men tested in Oman and 8% in Yemen carry the haplogroup. And to the north, they are found at low frequencies among Egyptians, Algerians, Tunisians, and others.

The other great peak of men bearing E-M123 is in the southern Levant. They are spread throughout the Middle East and in present-day Turkey at frequencies of about 5%, and make up about 13% of the male population in Jordan. Though generally rare in Europe, E-M123 can be found among men along the Mediterranean Sea, and is at its most common in Sicily (7%) and Sardinia (4%). Even at the far western edge, the lineage found in the Iberian Peninsula, especially among men from Portugal and the Spanish region of Galicia."

-------------------------------------------------

Note that this discussion of E-M123 does not include the downstream haplotypes that would include most Sardinians and Somalis.

E1b1b is rare in Europe, but included Hitler, Einstein and Napoleon. US President Lyndon Baines Johnson was also E1b1b. I share an ancestor with Napoleon.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Am I right in thinking that Sardinians are the closest non-africans population to Cushites?



They seem to be made up almost exclusively, of neolithic near-eastern farmers. Somalis have about 30-45% neolithic Middle-eastern DNA.

White-wash history won't work. Are you trying to make Africans into Aborigines or Native Americans, was that your plan through colonialism? it didn't turn out so well did it? We have civilizations in Africa, we were not stone age primitive societies. We conquered metals, arts, poetry, literature, philosophy, and traded with civilizations of the world and they kept historical and imagery evidence through arts on murals. Go take a hike with your european nonsense and how your trying to re-write history towards whiteness.

Why do we have to report neolithic dna, why isn't they have somali dna? why are you using them as a base to start from(european) when we know the base of humanity starts in Africa and everything reports back to Africa? We didn't Migrate to europe and learn from europeans, a few of our cousins like @Grant migrated to europe AND LEFT US AND WE GAVE HIM OUR KNOWLEDGE who then conquered and found and contributed to your ass and taught you civilization because no-one documents white european on egyptian murals, you were living eskimo lifestyles waryaa because interbred with neanderthals and didn't develop any further then a neanderthal untill homo sapien africans sent you a few blessing cards and upgraded your ass back into humanity with new skills, arts, language, maths, technology, etc.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Don't forget the Mesolithic European input in Sardinia. Those high figures don't all derive from the Levant.

I am E-L29 (E1b1b1c1a), which is downstream from E-M123, which in Europe peaks in Sicily. My ancestors are from England, Denmark and Switzerland. My maternal line is U5a2a, downstream from mesolithic hunter-gatherers. This is from my 23andme:

'"Origin and Migrations of Haplogroup E-M123
Your paternal line traces back to the common ancestor of haplogroup E-M123, a man who may have lived in eastern Africa over 20,000 years ago. At some time during the next 10,000 years, some of his descendants migrated north to the Levant and the Middle East, where the lineage is quite common today. In fact, evidence once suggested that the southern Levant may have been the birthplace of the haplogroup. It was there, soon after the Ice Age drew to a close 11,500 years ago, that humans first learned to domesticate cereals and livestock, and completely transformed their way of life. In fact, farming and herding were such successful strategies that populations boomed, sparking waves of migration into Europe and Africa about 8,000 years ago. Some of those men likely bore the E-M123 haplogroup, and as they migrated they introduced not only their technology and culture, but also the paternal lineage.

Today, some of the highest concentrations of men bearing haplogroup E-M123 and its diverse branches are found in eastern Africa, where they make up between 5 and 10% of men in parts of Ethiopia, Kenya, and Somalia. Farther east, nearly 10% of men tested in Oman and 8% in Yemen carry the haplogroup. And to the north, they are found at low frequencies among Egyptians, Algerians, Tunisians, and others.

The other great peak of men bearing E-M123 is in the southern Levant. They are spread throughout the Middle East and in present-day Turkey at frequencies of about 5%, and make up about 13% of the male population in Jordan. Though generally rare in Europe, E-M123 can be found among men along the Mediterranean Sea, and is at its most common in Sicily (7%) and Sardinia (4%). Even at the far western edge, the lineage found in the Iberian Peninsula, especially among men from Portugal and the Spanish region of Galicia."

-------------------------------------------------

Note that this discussion of E-M123 does not include the downstream haplotypes that would include most Sardinians and Somalis.

E1b1b is rare in Europe, but included Hitler, Einstein and Napoleon. US President Lyndon Baines Johnson was also E1b1b. I share an ancestor with Napoleon.

Welcome Back home @Grant I hope your ancestors civilized those barbarians who were mixing with neanderthals and you brought them east africa civilization.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Don't forget the Mesolithic European input in Sardinia. Those high figures don't all derive from the Levant.

I am E-L29 (E1b1b1c1a), which is downstream from E-M123, which in Europe peaks in Sicily. My ancestors are from England, Denmark and Switzerland. My maternal line is U5a2a, downstream from mesolithic hunter-gatherers. This is from my 23andme:

'"Origin and Migrations of Haplogroup E-M123
Your paternal line traces back to the common ancestor of haplogroup E-M123, a man who may have lived in eastern Africa over 20,000 years ago. At some time during the next 10,000 years, some of his descendants migrated north to the Levant and the Middle East, where the lineage is quite common today. In fact, evidence once suggested that the southern Levant may have been the birthplace of the haplogroup. It was there, soon after the Ice Age drew to a close 11,500 years ago, that humans first learned to domesticate cereals and livestock, and completely transformed their way of life. In fact, farming and herding were such successful strategies that populations boomed, sparking waves of migration into Europe and Africa about 8,000 years ago. Some of those men likely bore the E-M123 haplogroup, and as they migrated they introduced not only their technology and culture, but also the paternal lineage.

Today, some of the highest concentrations of men bearing haplogroup E-M123 and its diverse branches are found in eastern Africa, where they make up between 5 and 10% of men in parts of Ethiopia, Kenya, and Somalia. Farther east, nearly 10% of men tested in Oman and 8% in Yemen carry the haplogroup. And to the north, they are found at low frequencies among Egyptians, Algerians, Tunisians, and others.

The other great peak of men bearing E-M123 is in the southern Levant. They are spread throughout the Middle East and in present-day Turkey at frequencies of about 5%, and make up about 13% of the male population in Jordan. Though generally rare in Europe, E-M123 can be found among men along the Mediterranean Sea, and is at its most common in Sicily (7%) and Sardinia (4%). Even at the far western edge, the lineage found in the Iberian Peninsula, especially among men from Portugal and the Spanish region of Galicia."

-------------------------------------------------

Note that this discussion of E-M123 does not include the downstream haplotypes that would include most Sardinians and Somalis.

E1b1b is rare in Europe, but included Hitler, Einstein and Napoleon. US President Lyndon Baines Johnson was also E1b1b. I share an ancestor with Napoleon.

There was high levels of productivity due to the climate becuz the sun worked in our favor. For example Somalia has sun for 12 hours from 6 am to 6 PM. 12 hours of being able to work, see, etc. Where-as those neanderthal mixture bums in Europe would only get 4 hours depending on location and season, simply wouldn't have the time to progress as much as east africans did. Plus they married into a lesser group and would've dumbed down also untill migrations out of mid-east which was your group @Grant don't u dare forget where u came from.

We all congregated in the mid-east outside of africa and penetrated europe to free them from neanderthals savagery and eskimo living.

 

[Grant]

Welcome Back home @Grant I hope your ancestors civilized those barbarians who were mixing with neanderthals and you brought them east africa civilization.

?? My ancestors were Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers and Neolithic farmers from the Levant. I don't have a lot of Neanderthal.

"You have 256 Neanderthal variants.
Grant 's
Neanderthal variants
256

This is less than
76% of 23andMe Customers"


"In fact, farming and herding were such successful strategies that populations boomed, sparking waves of migration into Europe and Africa about 8,000 years ago."

European and African agriculture come from the same Levantine source. Both of our ancestors went north, but then mine went north and west as the ice retreated, and yours went back south and east. Europe gets shorter days than Somalia in winter, but longer days in summer. Once the ice left, the Europeans who were raising and storing food were not at a disadvantage.

 

[DR OSMAN]

?? My ancestors were Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers and Neolithic farmers from the Levant. I don't have a lot of Neanderthal.

"You have 256 Neanderthal variants.
Grant 's
Neanderthal variants
256

This is less than
76% of 23andMe Customers"


"In fact, farming and herding were such successful strategies that populations boomed, sparking waves of migration into Europe and Africa about 8,000 years ago."

European and African agriculture come from the same Levantine source. Both of our ancestors went north, but then mine went north and west as the ice retreated, and yours went back south and east. Europe gets shorter days than Somalia in winter, but longer days in summer. Once the ice left, the Europeans who were raising and storing food were not at a disadvantage.

What makes the levant the origin point of civilization? If humans came out of Africa, why can't civilization come out of Africa also? How do we know the mid-east contains the oldest civilizations if we don't dig up Africa and in-particularly areas around Egypt to Sudan to Ethiopia to Somalia as they follow either the nile river or the red sea channel? I can understand the Sahara below the south and west would've been hard to penetrate due to the Sahara desert but not so much these nations of Sudan-Ethiopia-Somalia due to the nile river and people following it and settling along it. That's for farmers only.

What about Shepherds who are basically the farmers of the semi arid and desert regions who tamed animals and domesticated it for food, transport, and created sophisticated economies around it and developed poetry, literature, arts, and even used metal technologies? They were like explorers not so much sea based but land based and what they may have encountered along the journey who knows? We still love travelling as human beings don't we and consider it opening up and cultivating our minds to different experiences? How were the early nomadic population any different? I think they were very intelligent people because the experience of the travelling does create 'wisdom' where-as farming creates 'knowledge' or knowing how to do things not necessarily wisdom.

When the two types of people met and combined is what I think kick-started civilization, where one brought 'wisdom through his journeys' and another had accumulated knowledge of his environment due to settlement.

 

[Grant]

What makes the levant the origin point of civilization? If humans came out of Africa, why can't civilization come out of Africa also? How do we know the mid-east contains the oldest civilizations if we don't dig up Africa and in-particularly areas around Egypt to Sudan to Ethiopia to Somalia as they follow either the nile river or the red sea channel? I can understand the Sahara below the south and west would've been hard to penetrate due to the Sahara desert but not so much these nations of Sudan-Ethiopia-Somalia due to the nile river and people following it and settling along it. That's for farmers only.

What about Shepherds who are basically the farmers of the semi arid and desert regions who tamed animals and domesticated it for food, transport, and created sophisticated economies around it and developed poetry, literature, arts, and even used metal technologies? They were like explorers not so much sea based but land based and what they may have encountered along the journey who knows? We still love travelling as human beings don't we and consider it opening up and cultivating our minds to different experiences? How were the early nomadic population any different? I think they were very intelligent people because the experience of the travelling does create 'wisdom' where-as farming creates 'knowledge' or knowing how to do things not necessarily wisdom.

When the two types of people met and combined is what I think kick-started civilization, where one brought 'wisdom through his journeys' and another had accumulated knowledge of his environment due to settlement.

Pastoralism is part of agriculture. Cattle may have been domesticated in multiple areas, including Africa, but sheep and goats are from the Levant., as are early grains. Africa didn't have the wild stock for sheep, goats or camels. The Sahara was once green and the heart of the pastoralist culture after it moved south, but the Sahara dried up and the people moved to the wetter periphery, especially the Atlas mountains in Morocco and the Nile valley in Egypt and the Sudan. There are clearly multiple centers for the creation of civilization and the Sudan/Egypt region is certainly one of them. But there were others in South America, China, etc., which also developed their separate agricultures and many of the modern foodstuffs. Then there's this:

http://www.academia.edu/6089365/Origins_and_history_of_Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA

"Outside Europe, E1b1b is found at high frequencies in Morocco (over 80%), Somalia (80%), Ethiopia (40% to 80%), Tunisia (70%), Algeria (60%), Egypt (40%), Jordan (25%), Palestine (20%), and Lebanon (17.5%). On the European continent it has the highestconcentration in Kosovo (over 45%), Albania and Montenegro (both 27%), Bulgaria (23%), Macedonia and Greece (both 21%),Cyprus (20%), Sicily (20%), South Italy (18.5%), Serbia (18%) and Romania (15%)."

"The highest genetic diversity of haplogroup E1b1b is observed in Northeast Africa, especially in Ethiopia and Somalia, which alsohave the monopoly of older and rarer branches like M281, V6 or V92. Ethiopians and Somalians belong mostly to the V22 and V32(downstream of V12) subclades, but possess also a minority of M81, M123 and V42 subclades. Among the main subclades of E1b1b only V13 and V65 are absent from the Horn of Africa, and probably originated in northern Africa (V65) or the southern Levant(V13)"