From what I remember Karanle have a seat in the local Harar government. I remember someone mentioning it. I'll try and find out exactly how many seats and the exact Hawiye subclans.
@AfranQallo
What areas of Oromia can you still find Samaroon?
Qabyalad Made Somalis Cucks For Oromo
- Thread starter Shaafici Mujaahid
- Start date
From what I remember Karanle have a seat in the local Harar government. I remember someone mentioning it. I'll try and find out exactly how many seats and the exact Hawiye subclans.
@AfranQallo
What areas of Oromia can you still find Samaroon?
I will never fall fall for your fake "peaceful" BS, I don't know how others here are.
What is an Oromo like you doing on a Somali forum anyways? - you know a lot of Somali inter clan politics while claiming to be peaceful, you are clearly an infiltrator seeking to learn about Somali issues and use them for his peoples benefit. You do the same with Wollo Amahra. Oromos are never peaceful, they killed Somalis in Dire Dawa in 2017-18 and tried to do the same in Liben by failed.
You didn't care for Muslimnimo when you slaughtered 400 Amhara muslims last year. You guys love playing the Muslim card on Somalis, we know how you act and what you want. You want all lands Somali have. You want to kill all Somalis or force them to "become" Oromo. You can't hide your true colors.
Don't worry. we will make sure that will never happen, we will educate our people on the threat of your kind. The Afar problem has been a wake up call for all Somalis, which is why even OGs are fighting alongside Ciise to help defend Somali lands. You Oromos have never faced a modern united Somali force, I pray you do and we are able to push you back into Kenya and take back what's ours.
We need to move some of @bidenkulaha's people from Mudug into Somali-Oromo border as soon as possible and give them a direct line of ammunition supply
GaradShabeel
VIP
I'll have to disagree with the bolded part. The reason as to why they joined Oromia was in large part political, as they claimed to be marginalized within DDS. This is the explanation we got from them, and what they and their representatives also claim until this day. Having Oromo "background" was a smaller factor, that pointed more towards their decision.
While all of them recognize their Oromo origin, most always referred to themselves as Somalis (the Somalized ones) and the rest Oromos. Even as they joined Oromia. It was through the recent "Oromo movements/uprisings" after the death of Meles Zenawi together with their problems with Abdi Ileys DDS administration, that they started embracing Oromo identity and a significant of them started going by being Oromo. Some both Oromo and Somali, though more commonly only Oromo.
Somalis for some reason hates when we call Jarso Oromo. But especially in the last 10 years, they requested us to refer to them as Oromo among those we live with. Obviously, this has created divisions, as not everyone was onboard. While intermarriage is not uncommon between Geri/Jarso, for my family it was. I only have Jarso married to distant relatives. All of them still only go by Somali. A general rule of thumb for us is to see; Jarso as Oromos in Oromia including parts of Cinaksen/Jinacsani and those living in Somali lands as Somali. Unless they claim otherwise. Though, it's sad to see people who we've always considered themselves as Somali, speak Somali, have Somali culture, intermarry with Somalis etc., now go by Oromo only. Nothing against Oromos, but somewhat unfortunate that they are "no longer" Somali. Some already stopped learning Somali as well, and distancing themselves...
As far as learning Oromo, a significant part of Geri also speaks it. ALL of my family and 90% of relatives speak Afaan Oromo. That doesn't mean that we are Oromos. In fact Jarso mostly/only used Somali until recently in DDS and Cinaksen/Jinacsani, and spoke Somali as native language. The only reason we speak Oromo is because we live in border areas, and come in contact with Oromo speakers in Oromia.
What's your experience with these Somali speaking Jarso? And what do they identify as, when among you guys?
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The Humme are a really small clan, and honestly this is the first I am hearing of this. It doesn’t really affect us tbh, they were always seen as Somali.
This is what has happened to the Gurgura, some claim they were never assimilated or added into AQ. They were in fact added into the Noole clan under the Mucaa Branch. When they began claiming their Somali identity, a lot of people were confused, most Oromos honestly believe they were actually Oromo.
They have every right to claim their identity and follow suit, we cannot force anyone to be Oromo.
See the pic below, shows were the Gurgura were placed under Noole.
You’re free to believe what ever you like. I am not here to please anyone. And I don’t need to explain anything to you. Hate and feel what ever way you feel best suits you. I am old enough to not allow things I disagree with trigger me.
One thing within your paragraph I will reply to, we did not attack and kill Somalis in Dire Dawa in 2018. It’s well known these fighting were Isse and Gurgura. They had their inner clan beef, and Isse were calling Gurgura Oromo to get more support from Somalis. @anonimo can confirm this.
Its pretty sure the gurgura like the the babille hawiye and garre are originally somali as they are mentinoned in futuh al habsh before the great oromo migration unlike say jaarso and akisho.
We agree on this, They are and I didn’t claim they were originally Oromo.
They were at a point added into the clan, and then decided to denounce it and claim their real identity which is perfectly fine.
Same way Jarso are, time will tell whether the rest of Akichu will follow suit.
I’ve never met a Somali claiming or speaking Jarso. The ones I know only claimed Oromo and are part of our community. A large portion of Jarso were already part of Oromia prior to Cinaksan being added, they have always spoke Oromo.
Garaad diinle
Hararghe is such an interesting place. It's a treasure trove of hidden somalis everywhere. I remember hearing stories about how murale originally came from hararghe and i watched i video of a somali man speaking of gaaljecel in awash.
Anyway i found the video of an oromo ashraf. In somalia ashraf are these who came from arabia so i naturally thought that they were arabs. To my surprise they were actually somalis. We might find even more somalis among afran qallo if we ask them for their full abtiris. I heard that a third of oromos in haraghe might be somali in origin.
Anyway i found the video of an oromo ashraf. In somalia ashraf are these who came from arabia so i naturally thought that they were arabs. To my surprise they were actually somalis. We might find even more somalis among afran qallo if we ask them for their full abtiris. I heard that a third of oromos in haraghe might be somali in origin.
GaradShabeel
VIP
Interesting, that as a Jarso yourself and not having met any of them. Especially as they are connected with other Oromos on the other side of the former borders. Even we do meet/interact with them, which is how we learn Afaan Oromo.
The history between Geri and Jarso is documented. Those Jarso who lived with us became Somalized either late 18th century or beginning of 19th century. Most likely the former. The first person to do a somewhat documentation of the the relationship and history between Geri and Jarso, was Sir Richard Burton in his book "First Footsteps in East Africa" from 1850s. I suggest that you read it, as I found our relation to be very intriguing.
I also posted an excerpt from another book in this thread. These Jarsos are the ones who've "historically" for the last 200-ish years spoken Somali as native tongue. As far identity, they either claimed 1.Somali, 2.Somali of Oromo origin, 3. Somalized Oromos, or simply 4. Somali-Oromo, until recently. As far as clan (don't have much knowledge of Jarso intra-clan affairs), but they've been counted both as part of the Somali and Oromo clan society.
Also you're right. Jarso is a large clan, that includes these Somali speaker and a larger Oromo speakers, living Hararghe and adjacent areas (excluding Cinaksen up until not too long ago, if I'm correct). Though most of the Somalized Jarso has also in recent history spoken solely Somali as mother tongue. Oromo speakers has only increased recently, I'd say beginning in 60-70s. In fact, while majority of them speak Oromo today, there are some who still don't. The Somalized Jarso even use Somali clan titles like Ughaaz/Ugaas etc. You can find Jarso on social media as well.
With that said, even though the Somalized Jarso are numerically smaller than the Oromo speaking Jarso, the former are the ones we live with, and I have knowledge of.
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Interesting, that as a Jarso yourself and not having met any of them. Especially as they are connected with other Oromos on the other side of the former borders. Even we do meet/interact with them, which is how we learn Afaan Oromo.
The history between Geri and Jarso is documented. Those Jarso who lived with us became Somalized either late 18th century or beginning of 19th century. Most likely the former. The first person to do a somewhat documentation of the the relationship and history between Geri and Jarso, was Sir Richard Burton in his book "First Footsteps in East Africa" from 1850s. I suggest that you read it, as I found our relation to be very intriguing.
I also posted an excerpt from another book in this thread. These Jarsos are the ones who've "historically" for the last 200-ish years spoken Somali as native tongue. As far identity, they either claimed 1.Somali, 2.Somali of Oromo origin, 3. Somalized Oromos, or simply 4. Somali-Oromo. As far as clan (don't have much knowledge of Jarso intra-clan affairs), but they've been counted both as part of Somali and Oromo clan society.
Also you're right. Jarso is a large clan, that includes these Somali speaker and a larger Oromo speakers, living Hararghe and adjacent areas (excluding Cinaksen until recently if I'm correct). Though most of the Somalized Jarso has also in recent history spoken solely Somali as mother tongue. Oromo speakers has only increased recently, I'd say beginning in 60-70s. In fact, while majority of Jarso in Somali land speak Oromo today, there are some who still don't. The Somalized Jarso even use Somali clan titles like Ughaaz/Ugaas etc.
With that said, even though the Somalized Jarso are numerically smaller than the Oromo speaking Jarso, the former are the ones we live with, and I have knowledge of.
My sub sub clan are originally part of Walabu Jarso, but we’re considered Noole today. Majority stayed with Jarso, we are mainly found in Kombulcha between Dire Dawa and Harar. So we don’t have Somali speaking JarsoS amongst us. The Jarso and Noole are brother clans under Dagga Afran Qallo. Jarso is the barrier between us and Somali region. The closer into Hararge you come, it’s mainly Oromos. The further out onto the border and in DDS, they speak a lot more Somali.
@GaradShabeel
To add to the above I belive it was during the Ottoman/Egyptian take over of Hararge. Noole and Jarso were resisting and fighting them, and Noole lost many people. So parts of the clans of Usmaan and Mahammad of Jarso and others became Noole to save the clan from dying.
To add to the above I belive it was during the Ottoman/Egyptian take over of Hararge. Noole and Jarso were resisting and fighting them, and Noole lost many people. So parts of the clans of Usmaan and Mahammad of Jarso and others became Noole to save the clan from dying.
GaradShabeel
VIP
Is it common in the Oromo clan system, that some sub-clan can change to other Oromo clans? For us, we count our clans to one common ancestry, though paternal lineage, one-by-one until the end. The only time this clan structure can "changes" is, if a clan becomes big and breaks down into smaller sub-clans or (rarely) if a non-Somali people becomes Somalized (formally or non-formally).
I have a question, does Oromo belonging to different religions affect you clan system? Are you divided by religion, region or ancestry?
It kinda makes sense. Thanks for this information. Not too long ago was I reading about Oromo and the Islamization process, and stumbled upon a well written retellings in Marco Demichelis "The Oromo and the historical Islamizations in Ethiopia". Though it didn't mention about what role different Oromo clans had, besides Oromo christians, Oromo muslims, Oromo waqeffa.
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You have no power nor do you represent the heads of state that are in power creating division amongst our people. We don't fear you we just seeing what happening right in front of our eyes and will prepare for it accordingly.
It is not common to change clans, but it has happened in the past for different reasons. Either for protection, blood money, land etc. This was mainly done over 100 years ago, none of this happens anymore.
No it does not. If you look at clans most clans follow the same religion. Example is all the Barentu clans are main Muslim, besides some Arsis further west and closer to Shawa and some Wallo. All the west Oromia clans hail from one large clan, Maccaa and they’re mainly Pente or Protestant Christian’s with a few sub clans being Muslim, mainly Jimma.
Most clans are based in the same regions, Arsi and Bale are Arsi, East Hararge is AQ, south Hararge is Anniya, west is Murawa(Ittu) Shawa = Tulama. You won’t see a AQ in Wallaga or an Arsi in Wallo etc, unless they’re there for work. Oromos weakest point is regionalism, kind of clan like but some regions may have 1 or 2 additional clans.
GaradShabeel
VIP
Thanks for answering my questions. One thing I'm envy of you guys is that you are (or at least appear to be) united, despite also having clan based society, belonging to different religions, *wide* range of regional cultural and linguistical/dialectal diversity etc.
Before the country descended into chaos and all problems exacerbated while Meles was in power, my family often took roadtrips throughout much of eastern Oromia. So I've seen very much. Though I suck at both Oromo and Amharic, so communicating with Oromos has mostly done through relatives. But a significant Oromos/Gurguras in Dire Dawa speaks or at least understand Somali. That was great after being/feeling lost, kkkkk.
I have a political question. I've also observed the regionalism among Oromos, to the point that they are willing to possibly have smaller regions in the future. Obviously, most Oromo are subscribed to the "Oromo nation", and striving for it, if I'm correct. But if your "agenda" are achieved of democrazations, equal representations, not being marginalized etc. most Oromos would not be closed to that idea. But I could be wrong. Such as the Hararghes being one, the Bales, the Welegas, the Arsis, the Shewas or just neighbouring zones creating a region etc. Either by themselves or within the Oromo regional state. Sometimes I browse through Oromo media and political spaces, and it's interesting to see how you view things.
Since you have better knowledge of Oromo politicians. I oftentimes hear leading opposition figures, talk about wanting to properly implement the right of self determinations to everyone in Ethiopia. Do they for example really mean allowing anyone who wish to secede, to be given that opportunity, if/when they come to power? Oromo leaders/politicians like Jawar Mohammed
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We do have our differences but at the end of the day, we do what we can to put them aside and focus on a common Oromo goal. Unfortunately, we differ in politics so it’s hard to have everyone on board, some may prefer staying with Ethiopia, others want out.
Yeah you’d definitely find Somali speakers in DD, there are other who speak it in the badiya rural areas too, but some choose not to.
One thing Oromos will never let slide is losing land. Regardless if it’s for the better good, they’d never give it up. In all honesty I am not all too familiar with Oromo politics and especially Oromo regional politics. I grew up within a family that were with OLF from the begining in the 70s opening an office in Somalia. Some elements of Oromos took over the organization and we moved over to IFLO- Islamic front for liberation of Oromia. Which mainly were based in Hararge. Most AQ you’d come across are in want for a self rule of Oromos without Ethiopia but we have no power as a clan so you won’t see us in political discussions.
Didn't see the last bit there. Those who support the OLF and are within the organization want Oromia to secede and if another region were to rule and chose the secede, they would be more than happy.
The likes of Jawar and his OFC party are pro Ethio and pro federalist. They do not want to secede from the country. I am not fully sure how they feel about others seceding, but they being pro Ethiopian, I’d imagine they’re against succession. They do believe everyone has the right to self determination within Ethiopia but are against anything Beyond.
GaradShabeel
VIP
Okey, I figured that he was pro-Ethiopia, especially as he was mostly quiet during the Tigray war when he was outspoken against the regime prior to it. He was obviously in prison too, but his attitude changed since then, and many Oromos view him differently now (I've observed through Oromo media). Especially, also being relatively silent (at least not as open as he used to be) with the killings and everything currently happening in Oromia.
Even though there are some problems between Oromos and Somalis, I hope that we at least can work together on a political level to work for what's best for us, as most share somewhat similar views with regards to the Ethiopian state, (either full autonomy or independence). Proper self-rule as rightfully given by the constitution of federalism, full democratizations, no advantage for Amharas and Amhara speakers over others etc. In DDS, after ONLF the second major opposition party is the FEP party, a nation-wide party with an Oromo chairman and Somali vice-chairman. Their agenda includes those issues I mentioned above, and just fighting the ever infringing Ethiopian regime on the rights of its people. Especially as TPLF is crushed now, and no major organization/party of big influence to stand up against them. Don't know if I should trust them, but anything is better than PP at this point, who wants to abolish ethnic federalism.
The only active major rebel group now are OLA. As much as I don't agree with much of what they are doing, I hope that they make big demands on the gov't, as they've now indicated to be open for negotiations/reconciliation, in terms of structural/governance of Ethiopia, that hopefully benefits all. ONLF did came to an agreements in 2018 by laying down arms, but the regime did not live up to their commitments. That included punishment for all of their atrocities in DDS. Or allowing free elections in DDS, which resulted in opposition parties pulling out of the last election, given PP a landslide victory.
Getting rid of puppet regimes of DDS and Oromia, is of very importance for me right now for my peoples survival, quite litteraly. Throw in Afar region there too (who've now gotten more bold after being armed to the teeth through the Tigray war), as well as the rest of the regional states. They are the ones creating the problems between the communities of the borders. What happens then? People turn towards hating people on an ethnic level, for these tentions caused by failures. For us, the referendum of 2004 haven't been properly implemented and no one seems to have interest in doing so. (That I personally felt was done in an unjust way in the way that you were given opportunity to select villages-by-villages (kebles) sometimes even huts, never tried elsewhere except on us; an intentional recipe for disaster through gerrymandering. Other referendums was done in larger area, either zones or districts (Woreda) or splitting regional states). That's where the problems between Jarso and Geri stems from. Constant fightings since 2004, caused by external forces. Not a single genuine mediation or attempts of solution by neither DDS or Oromia. Even controversial like the status of Dire Dawa, whether to to include it with DDS or Oromia, when that's not what was agreed upon in the 90s/00s. Hopefully we find over avenues of solving our problems in the future.
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