Interesting paper comparing PL and SL's systems

Discussion in 'Somali Politics' started by Thegoodshepherd, Oct 13, 2018.

  1. Thegoodshepherd

    Thegoodshepherd Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood Staff Member Moderator

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    A fairly short paper that describes the dynamics faced by both states and the role that the quest for recognition, or lack thereof, plays in creating "national" cohesion. Pages 15, 16 and 17 describe very well the problem that Puntland's political elite have been struggling with for the past 20 years. How do you build up your state while also vying for influence in Mogadishu? The authors argue that the focus of Puntland's political elite has led to them ignoring political development at home. This paper is a must read for anyone interested in the future development of federal states in Somalia. The same problems will face Jubaland, Galmudug etc... in the future.

    @Boqor Quark Boqor Cisman I am starting to think that separating from Mogadishu may have been the better route for Puntland to pursue. It seems that you were right that remaining involved in the politics of the South did real damage to Puntland's project of state building.

    Some excerpts:
     
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  2. Boqor Quark Boqor Cisman

    Boqor Quark Boqor Cisman Federalism waa muqadas

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    Good stuff, Inshallah i will read it when i get some time.
     
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  3. Jabir ibn ahmed

    Jabir ibn ahmed

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    Somalis and there sessionist mindsets.. uff..things get tough and they want to separate like crybabies.. we’re the most unpatriotic people in the world. We fail to realize we’re stronger together than separated.
     
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  4. AarLibaax

    AarLibaax

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    :mjlol:

    Oh please go kkk
    Worked out well for SLand :nvjpqts:
     
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  5. Thegoodshepherd

    Thegoodshepherd Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't think you understood what I am talking about. What I am saying is that the political leaders of Puntland should not have spent all the time and energy they had after 1998 on trying to win seats in Mogadishu. The striving for position in Mogadishu is futile because it slows down political development at home. Puntland's political elite should have stayed home and minded their own business. Puntland ignored its own interest and forgot to build institutions and democratize, things it should have accomplished in the first decade, it instead became involved in a conflict that is still going on today.
     
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  6. nine

    nine sambusa booty xalimos >abdiexit

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    Thegoodshepherd Is the most interesting and unique MJ user on here one of my favorite users.


    How would the southern PL borders be drawn out would it include the Galdogob district? What about SSC?
     
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  7. Farm

    Farm Puntland Nationalist

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    Do you just comment for the sake of commenting? Try reading the OP it isn’t complicated.

    Nice thread @Thegoodshepherd, I sometimes wonder where PL would be today....if we focused exclusively on PL since 98 instead of the failed project in xamar.
     
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  8. Thegoodshepherd

    Thegoodshepherd Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't think that secession is on the table for Puntland. What I would rather we do is reach an agreement with the federal government on sharing foreign aid. Puntland gets 20% of whatever aid Somalia receives, in exchange for leaving the politics of the south to the people of the south. The FGS has nothing it can offer Puntland at this point, and Puntland staying out of it would help take pressure off of it. The only problem with this scheme would be that the Hawiye would break any such agreement when they get the presidency next.
     
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  9. AarLibaax

    AarLibaax

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    Why you triggered farm tool
    My comment hurt you did it, nacas


    The jist of your m8's idiotic claims backed by the most ridiculous of experiments is simple, Xamar is to blame for your problems

    Give me a f*cking break, this just killed it

    "the decision to maintain ties with Somalia has complicated Puntland’s efforts to build a strong, democratic provincial state"

    :damn:

    Like I said Go :camby:
     
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  10. SuldaankaDadka

    SuldaankaDadka

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    Don’t tell me this negro is the same tribe as Qayrlaawe :ftw9nwa:
     
  11. SuldaankaDadka

    SuldaankaDadka

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    This paper is from 4 years ago?
     
  12. Thegoodshepherd

    Thegoodshepherd Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood Staff Member Moderator

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    @AarLibaax

    I never said that Xamar is to blame for any of Puntland's problems. Xamar has done nothing to Puntland since the fall of MSB other than interfere every once in a while in how Puntland builds foreign relations. All of Puntland's problems have been caused by ourselves.
    No, the problem is that our politicians are not focused on actually building a viable democratic state because they view Puntland as a stepping stone to higher office. What I am arguing for is for Puntland to withdraw from political struggles in Xamar and instead focus entirely on Puntland. That is the lesson that is to be drawn from this paper. Focusing on your own region yields more political development than trying to recreate a Somali state. Puntland would be better off today if A/Y had stayed in Puntland in 2004.


    The problem is that you are not intelligent enough to comprehend what I am putting forth. You do not have the necessary critical thinking skills with which to hold a discussion with someone like me. So, you resort to this:
    :camby:
    and this:

    :mjlol:

    It would be sad, were it not so very funny.
    :drakekidding:
     
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  13. AarLibaax

    AarLibaax

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    Your so full of nonsense it's almost laughable hence the use of smilies

    What your putting for is seccession
    It doesnt take a two bit brain to gather that.

    My answer remains the same stop with your bullsh*t and boor isku qaris and be brave like the Isaaq and say you want to secede.

    sorry bruh bravery aint a thing you can buy
     
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  14. Deactivated

    Deactivated

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    If Puntland focused on itself, it would have brain drained every gobols talent and converted them to Puntlanders.

    People will go wears there’s Nabad and opportunity.

    What pisses me off is when these politicians fail in Xamaar, they return to Puntland and get higher positions.
     
  15. SuldaankaDadka

    SuldaankaDadka

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    Is this Larry the ciise riyoole?:lolbron:
     
  16. Deactivated

    Deactivated

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    No, this is cognitive dissonances roommate.
     
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  17. Thegoodshepherd

    Thegoodshepherd Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood Staff Member Moderator

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    @AarLibaax I am smart enough to hold two opposing thoughts at the same time.

    Thesis: Puntland should secede from Somalia to better its political situation
    Antithesis: Secession weakens Puntland’s claim to foreign aid received in Mogadishu
    Synthesis: Puntland should remain part of Somalia, for the time being, and develop itself to where it can declare secession and not lose much in the process

    I know where my interest lies, and it is not Xamar. I wonder what Marehan will go back to once Farmaajo’s term ends in 2 years? Reminds me of Siyaad Barre having to go to Gedo during the war and leaving his heavy APCs behind because Gedo was muddy and roadless. 21 years in power and not once did it occur to the Marehan messiah to build a road in Gedo.

    :meleshame::kendrickcry:
     
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  18. AarLibaax

    AarLibaax

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    Stop lying to yourself, your a secessionist daneeste

    We will still proudly wave il_340x270.1460222463_sykr.jpg
    With Xamar as our Capital &
    Somalia as our country
     
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  19. nine

    nine sambusa booty xalimos >abdiexit

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    I won't lie here if I was MSB I would give ny clan the short end of the stick. If other regions get development my clan gets less. If I gave 5million to Bosaso I would give less to my clan and rather have them in gaajo than a shisheeye kid in gaajo. It's messed up I know
     
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  20. DR OSMAN

    DR OSMAN

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    We need a relationship with Mogadishu not just around foreign aid but even security and general trade links. You simply can't achieve security without some sort of political settlement and rule of law that is mutually agreed upon by all parties not just(one party) or else it will lead to them invading Puntland or causing problems by using power-hungry opposition in Puntland.

    Somaliland is a little different in that respect, all it's neighbour are relatively stable and don't interfere into it's politics. Where-as SL interferes into PL politics supporting Galgala cells and Mogadishu has the galmudug boys on stand-by when it needs it. Puntland is surrounded by 'hostile' neighbors in reality and isolating ourselves won't work.
     
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