Do you think Somalis are mixed or pure?

What are we

  • A mix of Sub-Saharan and Middle Eastern

    Votes: 45 28.7%
  • A pure race indigenous to East Africa

    Votes: 112 71.3%

  • Total voters
    157
Polynesians came from Southern China and are not as extremely drifted genetically as South American Natives (no contact with the outside world for 14,000 years).
Ah so they came from southern china :ohhh: I always thought it was Indonesia, also how many years do you think it’ll take for multiracial groups like dominicans, puerto ricans and brazilians to form their own separate genotype?
 
There is no such thing as pure. We are a mix of early neolithic farmers from the levant (arabs ancestors) and indigenous africans that came from southern egypt about 20 000 years ago. That part of our dna is today only uniqe to east africans. And we have a small portion of middle-eastern recent input.
 
This topic has been ran to the ground.

Genetically we are the results of ancient East African + ancient West Eurasian back migrations, populations which don’t exist anymore. We stabilized to become Cushitic, one of the oldest groups in the world.

Fast forward to 2018 we’re viewed as Black Africans.
facts
 
If you look at the ancient Egyptians paintings. The phenotypes of ancient Puntites is very close to Somalis and Puntites were confirmed to be a Cushitic stock. On top of that, the characteristics of Puntites were mentioned by the ancient Egyptians themselves as the tallest and handsome of all men. Famous for their warlike. Their diet mainly comprised of meat and milk. All of the descriptions of the people agree with the pastoral Somali figures who are tall, handsome warriors with a diet predominantly consisting of meat and milk. This point of view was affirmed by modern-day archaeologist.

Not only that but northern Somalia is extremely famous for high quantity and quality of frankincense, myrrh and gold. Eritrea is only famous for salt.

Now I've asked this question before but explain why most of the Punt ruins are found in northern Somalia than any other places in the Horn?

Here is a museam in Somaliland showing you Puntite statue heads, items, ancient Puntite architectural ruins and etc. They even found ancient Egyptian materials which they got from trade so tell me what you think of this? Obviously, more research is needed to be conducted but you can't deny Punt civilization also existed in northern Somalia while Eritrea only got a baboon.

they're not referring to somalis, they're actually talking about Nilotes
 

Sophisticate

~Gallantly Gadabuursi~
Staff Member
We are not mixed. You cannot recreate a complex series of ancient admixture events. Then stabilize a population making them socially endogamous to beget a contemporary Somali. There is also no need for you to claim mixed because you think its trendy (or are suffering from a diasporan induced identity crisis). You are just a regular Farax or Xalimo.
 
We are not mixed. You cannot recreate a complex series of ancient admixture events. Then stabilize a population making them socially endogamous to beget a contemporary Somali. There is also no need for you to claim mixed because you think its trendy (or are suffering from a diasporan induced identity crisis). You are just a regular Farax or Xalimo.
I had the same opinion as you, but as I decided there was no harm in simply looking at the present available evidence to form a sensible conclusion about the matter, I went ahead and did that.

Here are my findings. Disclaimer: I'm 100% open minded to different perspectives. The subject in general is interesting to me. I also don't care if I'm mixed or purely African, ultimately I'm Somali so that doesn't matter.

To breakdown my reasoning, I'll be using genetic research on autosomal DNA. This is gonna be a long reply, which I think you deserve, since this is a hot take, and

Autosomal DNA is based on chromosomes passes on from your parents to you.

Research study 1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4055572/pdf/pgen.1004393.pdf

Early Back-to-Africa Migration into the Horn of Africa

Figure 1:



Essentially there are 2 plots.

Plot A accounts for different groups in different regions. The blue triangle represents Horn of African people. As you can see, there are pretty much smack dab in between other Sub-Saharan Africans and West Eurasians.

Plot B takes the Horn of African data point from Plot A (i.e. the blue triangle) and separates it into different ethnic groups.

Somalis are the orange triangle. This shows that Somalis are more related to other Cushitic speaking peoples (no surprise there).

Figure 2:

View attachment 155168

View attachment 155167

Essentially as you go down from 10 to 12, you're adding a new variable.

In diagram 10, we see that Somalis have roughly 60% Nilo-Saharan DNA ancestry, 10% North African, called Maghrebi* and 10% Arabian.

View attachment 155172

*on the Maghrebi portion:

View attachment 155170 i.e. Eurasian.

In diagram 11, we add an indigenous Horn of African marker called Ethiopic, which eats away at about a third of the Nilo-Saharan DNA, so from 60% to 40%, of which 20% is now Ethiopic.

View attachment 155176

In diagram 12, we introduce an ancestry known as Ethio-Somali. This completely eats at all the Eurasian and Ethiopic DNA, only leaving out about 20% Nilo-Saharan DNA.

1606311539410.png


Lets see what's said about this Ethio-Somali ancestry:

1606311567310.png
My only issue with section 12, is that it seems irrelevant compared to section 10 and 11. But I suppose if you want an autosomal carrier that links you to your closest ethnic groups, this works.

Note: This also proves that Somalis didn't descend from Arabs a couple thousand years ago. We weren't Arab, in that sense. This mixing most likely occurred prehistorically, before agriculture. As in, there was no "Arab" culture, or civilized peoples. So the Darod and Isaaq myths are still that: myths.

1606311486722.png



Well that's enough from the first study, onto the next.

Research Study 2:

Genome-wide analyses disclose the distinctive HLA architecture and the pharmacogenetic landscape of the Somali population

Right from the beginning summary:

1606311073590.png


This already ties into what the previous study already suggested. Which they noticed:

1606311387683.png


Their personal findings from 95 Somalis who acted as the sample size:

1606311613225.png


This is a pretty long explanation. Took a while to make this response, so hopefully you enjoy it. There's also Y-DNA and Mt-DNA to take into account, but that's another story for another day.
 
There seems to be a limit to attached photos.

Here are the missing ones in order:

Figure 1:

1606311835704.png


Figures for samples around the world:

1606311882964.png


1606311905886.png


Above is K10 to K12.

Explanations of K10

1606312019721.png
Maghrebi is considered Eurasian by origin.

I think that's it.
 

Attachments

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Sophisticate

~Gallantly Gadabuursi~
Staff Member
I had the same opinion as you, but as I decided there was no harm in simply looking at the present available evidence to form a sensible conclusion about the matter, I went ahead and did that.

Here are my findings. Disclaimer: I'm 100% open minded to different perspectives. The subject in general is interesting to me. I also don't care if I'm mixed or purely African, ultimately I'm Somali so that doesn't matter.

To breakdown my reasoning, I'll be using genetic research on autosomal DNA. This is gonna be a long reply, which I think you deserve, since this is a hot take, and

Autosomal DNA is based on chromosomes passes on from your parents to you.

Research study 1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4055572/pdf/pgen.1004393.pdf

Early Back-to-Africa Migration into the Horn of Africa

Figure 1:



Essentially there are 2 plots.

Plot A accounts for different groups in different regions. The blue triangle represents Horn of African people. As you can see, there are pretty much smack dab in between other Sub-Saharan Africans and West Eurasians.

Plot B takes the Horn of African data point from Plot A (i.e. the blue triangle) and separates it into different ethnic groups.

Somalis are the orange triangle. This shows that Somalis are more related to other Cushitic speaking peoples (no surprise there).

Figure 2:

View attachment 155168

View attachment 155167

Essentially as you go down from 10 to 12, you're adding a new variable.

In diagram 10, we see that Somalis have roughly 60% Nilo-Saharan DNA ancestry, 10% North African, called Maghrebi* and 10% Arabian.

View attachment 155172

*on the Maghrebi portion:

View attachment 155170 i.e. Eurasian.

In diagram 11, we add an indigenous Horn of African marker called Ethiopic, which eats away at about a third of the Nilo-Saharan DNA, so from 60% to 40%, of which 20% is now Ethiopic.

View attachment 155176

In diagram 12, we introduce an ancestry known as Ethio-Somali. This completely eats at all the Eurasian and Ethiopic DNA, only leaving out about 20% Nilo-Saharan DNA.

View attachment 155186

Lets see what's said about this Ethio-Somali ancestry:

View attachment 155187 My only issue with section 12, is that it seems irrelevant compared to section 10 and 11. But I suppose if you want an autosomal carrier that links you to your closest ethnic groups, this works.

Note: This also proves that Somalis didn't descend from Arabs a couple thousand years ago. We weren't Arab, in that sense. This mixing most likely occurred prehistorically, before agriculture. As in, there was no "Arab" culture, or civilized peoples. So the Darod and Isaaq myths are still that: myths.

View attachment 155185


Well that's enough from the first study, onto the next.

Research Study 2:

Genome-wide analyses disclose the distinctive HLA architecture and the pharmacogenetic landscape of the Somali population

Right from the beginning summary:

View attachment 155183

This already ties into what the previous study already suggested. Which they noticed:

View attachment 155184

Their personal findings from 95 Somalis who acted as the sample size:

View attachment 155188

This is a pretty long explanation. Took a while to make this response, so hopefully you enjoy it. There's also Y-DNA and Mt-DNA to take into account, but that's another story for another day.

I am aware of the research. When I said not mixed I'm referring to not recently admixed. Please do a second read through. I'm very much against using that term as it's a misnomer which is liable to be used as a sound bite by ajnabis which are dilettantes in interpreting genetic information. There are more recently admixed populations in this world but they do not go around calling themselves 'mixed'. :hillarybiz: With all do respect, I do not care about defunct (populations from thousands of years ago which are AEA and ANA).
 
I am aware of the research. When I said not mixed I'm referring to not recently admixed. Please do a second read through. I'm very much against using that term as it's a misnomer which is liable to be used as a sound bite by ajnabis which are dilettantes in interpreting genetic information. There are more recently admixed populations in this world but they do not go around calling themselves 'mixed'. :hillarybiz: With all do respect, I do not care about defunct (populations from thousands of years ago which are AEA and ANA).
That's fair.
 
somalis are their own thing why is that so hard for some folks comprehend ?
I mean ethnically and culturally, absolutely. I think the OP was asking if we are mixed race as in having racial ancestry from two or more sources that's significant enough to conclude that one is mixed. The answer to that is yes. But not recently. Very ancient.

Ultimately a pure Somali identity is preferred. 👍
 
Why do people who are in no way related happen to look like each other?

Like some Afro-Latinos and Indians look somali.
 

Som

VIP
There seems to be a limit to attached photos.

Here are the missing ones in order:

Figure 1:

View attachment 155189

Figures for samples around the world:

View attachment 155190

View attachment 155191

Above is K10 to K12.

Explanations of K10

View attachment 155192 Maghrebi is considered Eurasian by origin.

I think that's it.
When they say we are 60% subsaharan and 40%west-eurasian is the ethio-somali counted as "subsaharan'?
Cause from the pics more than half of the somali column is green(ethio-somali) but then they say that ethio-somali is a non african component. I'm confused
 

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