Districts that joined Puntland post 1998

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Bohol

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What most of yall are forgetting is that the biggest darood clan lives outside Somalia lol, even hartis and marexan live outside Somalia.


Ogaden population is over exaggerated though. People assume Somali region population =
Ogaden alone when in reality they are around 35% of the population there. Fafan zone is
mostly non Darood (Gadabursi, Jaarso, Akisho etc), Sitti zone is Cisse, Liban zone is Degodia and Garre. Dhagaxbur zone has many Isaaqs. The list goes on. The non Daroods in Somali region are in the millions.
 

XaajiXumbo

Always Venture, Always Win
2.7 million even worse. It is actually the other way round it is southerners that breed like rats despite wars they keep multiplying. It is common in the south to marry 2-3 wives.

:mjcry:

There is a famous say amongst Hawiye (Particularly HG) downs South Somalia about who real mens are and the kind of conditions one must fill in order to participate Qabiil shuraa's;

it says that, if a man has only 1 wife then he wont be told about any qabiil shuraa's since he is a small fish thus he will be kept in the dark about beesha's matters, but if man has 2 wives then he can come to the beesha's shuraa as a guest but can not participate, but if a man has 3 wives he can participate, debate, and bring in ideas for the qabiil but he wont have the final say for the beesha, but the man with the 4 wives, will not only participate but he has the final say for the Beesha's fate, the outcome of all debates of the beesha rest with the man that has 4 wives.
 
Ogaden population is over exaggerated though. People assume Somali region population =
Ogaden alone when in reality they are around 35% of the population there. Fafan zone is
mostly non Darood (Gadabursi, Jaarso, Akisho etc), Sitti zone is Cisse, Liban zone is Degodia and Garre. Dhagaxbur zone has many Isaaqs. The list goes on. The non Daroods in Somali region are in the millions.

"Beyond this general disillusionment with state structures, however, Somali communities at the regional and local levels are often deeply divided by clan, political, ideological, and resource-based tensions. All of the major Somali clan families are found in Somali Region. The Somali Darood are the largest clan family numerically-with the Darood Ogaadeen clan estimated to be the largest single clan, constituting perhaps 40 to 50 percent of Ethiopian Somalis. Non-Ogaadeeni Darood such as the Marehan, and other clan families including the Dir (Isse), Isaaq, Hawiye, Bantu, and Rahaweyn also inhabit Somali Region.

The Ogaadeen clan of the Darood clan family mostly inhabit the central Ogaden plateau of Somali Region, or the administrative zones called Fiiq, Dhagahbur, Gode, Korahe, and Wardheer, along with other non-Ogaadeeni clans. The Issa live in the area north of the Hareghe highlands north of Dire Dawa (today called Shinile zone), and the Isaaq inhabit the prized pasture land known in the colonial era as the Haud, on the border with Somaliland, as well as parts of the Ogaden." https://www.hrw.org/report/2008/06/...crimes-against-humanity-ogaden-area-ethiopias

They are more than 35%, they also live in Jubaland and NFD.
 

Bohol

VIP
@GBTarmy other Daroods are not large in Ethiopia. The 40% is a estimate just like my 35%.

So this rules out Fafan zone (the most populated). Sitti, Liban Zone and others. On top of that
they share this zones with other clans. Out of those I would say Fiiq and Qoraxey are the most
pure Ogaden zones. Dhagaxbuur zone has too many Isaaqs, Wardheer there is lots of MJ,
Dhulos + Marehan. Godey zone has lots of Madow and Hawiye (Hawadle) and even Dir.

"The Ogaadeen clan of the Darood clan family mostly inhabit the central Ogaden plateau of Somali Region, or the administrative zones called Fiiq, Dhagahbur, Gode, Korahe, and Wardheer, along with other non-Ogaadeeni clans."

I wonder what happened to Afdheer though

image002_2_914.jpg


 
@Bohol Hawiye is much smaller than Darood. Even within Somalia Darood is probably a bit larger than Hawiye.

Very true. You'll see them run around with ridiculous claims like "Xamar has three million people," but neglect to mention that more 60% of those people are either raxanwayn or bantu. Same is true for other supposedly hawyie deegans in the shabeelas and hiiran and elsewhere, the only thing keeping hawyie alive is Darood division which comes from Darood's mass and widespread geographic reach which naturally results in somewhat different political interests
 

Bohol

VIP
@Bohol Hawiye is much smaller than Darood. Even within Somalia Darood is probably a bit larger than Hawiye.


Lets be realistic. Abgaal/Mudulood population alone is larger than the entire Puntland population. There is no contest when it comes to population in Somalia between Hawiye and Darood. However if you said Darood is larger than Hawiye in all inhabited Somali areas that could be true.
 

Thegoodshepherd

Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood
VIP
@IslamIsTheAnswer there are more than 1 million Ogaden in Garissa County + Wajir South.

@Bohol I used to think that Hawiye was on par with Darood as a clan, but then I saw the 2014 population estimate. Hawiye is more similar D&M and Isaaq than it is to Darood. Hawiye is a regional clan with about 85% of all Hawiye living between Galkacyo and Afgooye.
There are basically only three Hawiye "cities" Xamar, Beledweyne and South Galkacyo. Hawiye is not much larger than Isaaq in Somalia. Abgaal is not much larger than HA. Middle Shabelle, the Abgaal region, has 500K people.
 

Bohol

VIP
@Thegoodshepherd we both know Abgaal also make up the majority in Mogadishu city. With Hawiye it is clear cut since there is evidence they are majority in the regions they claim (Hiiraan, Benadir, Middle Shabelle, Galgadud, South Mudug). However there is a lot of question mark on regions that Darood claim to be majority for example Middle Jubba which is full of Madow, Rahanweyn and other communities and under 100% Al shabab. Lower Jubba itself is diverse with entire districts like Jamaame belonging to Dir. In reality the only clear cut regions that Darood can claim to be majority in are Puntland + Gedo. The rest there is no proof.
 
@IslamIsTheAnswer there are more than 1 million Ogaden in Garissa County + Wajir South.

@Bohol I used to think that Hawiye was on par with Darood as a clan, but then I saw the 2014 population estimate. Hawiye is more similar D&M and Isaaq than it is to Darood. Hawiye is a regional clan with about 85% of all Hawiye living between Galkacyo and Afgooye.
There are basically only three Hawiye "cities" Xamar, Beledweyne and South Galkacyo. Hawiye is not much larger than Isaaq in Somalia. Abgaal is not much larger than HA. Middle Shabelle, the Abgaal region, has 500K people.

Give me a break, Abgaal are the second biggest subclan after Ogaden
 

Thegoodshepherd

Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood
VIP
@Bohol let us say Abgaal make up half of Mogadishu, that is about 825K. Add to that 110K in Ceel Dheer and 515K in Middle Shabelle. That gives a population of about 1.45 million. This is smaller than MJ, for example, let alone Harti.

What I am saying becomes clearer when you understand something like this fact:
The entire Hawiye heartland South Mudug+Galgaduud(minus Abudwak)+Hiiraan+Middle Shabelle has a population of 1.84 million. Las Qorey+Bari+Taleex+Buhoodle+Nugaal+North Mudug has a population of 1.84 million. I am leaving out Ceerigaabo, Las Canood, Xudun, Galadi, Bokh and Danot.

Hawiye is not even close. The numbers are just not there. The entire Hawiye heartland is outnumbered by the Harti in Somalia. Mogadishu is simply not big enough.


@Suhaib I used to believe that too, it is just not true. The largest subclan after Ogaden is MJ.
 
There is a lot of ignorance in this thread. People should learn about who lives where and the lineage of the clans they are talking about.

Firstly, none of the maps and figures being used here are in any way accurate or reflect the clan make up of Greater Somalia.

Somalia_tribes1977.jpg


For example, in the above map, the Marehan and the Degodi do not share a border at Beled Xawo. It is the Garre that mainly inhabit Mandhera County. The Murulle are also excluded from the above map. Furthermore, the Degodi; Garre; Xawaadle and Galjeecel are not Hawiye but stand alone Samaale subclans. Western scholars bought into the biased narrative that Somalis are composed of 4 or so clans.

The way K5 is settled is also incorrect. Before the removal of the three Gurre Woredas, Southern Afdheer was settled by the Gurre; Gaadsan; Surre and Garire. The Ogaden and Degoodi did not really border each other. The Gurre had three woredas, Gariire in Ceelkari woreda, Gaadsan live on the West Bank of Jarrati Woreda, the Surre in Dolobay Woreda. Even the Northern K5 map is inaccurate, the Isaaq no longer live on the outskirts of Jijiga; the Yabarre are in between them and Jijiga. The Bajuni do not also predominately inhabit Kismayo as stated in the map. Even the CIA map which is based on second hand information and not field research, does not do Somalis justice.

Secondly, no clan census has ever been conducted. Even the first attempt at conducting a clan census ( Report on general survey of British Somaliland 1944 ) acknowledged the difficulty in estimating the population of Somali clans and argued that it was a sensitive subject among Somalis who were not willing to share the population figures for their clan. Furthermore, clans such as the Gadabursi and Ciise were found to inhabit Ethiopia more than Somalia. Most of the clan stats that people are throwing around here are based on that flawed paper.

If one was to make a comparison of Somali clans, the best way to go about is to look at the Deegans of the clans in question and their estimated population by a government census (Ethiopian CSA 2007) or the UN 2014 population estimate. The second one ain't perfect but it is the closest thing we have to a population cesnsus in the Somali Republic. In such a scenario, I would argue that within the borders of the Somali Republic, the largest clan is the Digil iyo Mirifle. Apart from the fact that they inhabit Bay iyo Bakool, they form the majority of Lower Shabelle and the bulk of IDP's throughout Somalia. Even in Banadir, they constitute a considerable percentage of the settled population in districts such as Madina. One cannot also forget that they also live on the Eastern Bank of Jubbaland. Darood would come second, Isaaq third, Proper Hawiye fourth.

It is a completely different picture when one looks at Greater Somalia; Darood is first by a mile then Dir comes second because a lot of people forget that there are around 2 millions Dirs when all their Woredas in K5 and the Dire Dawa Federal Region are added together. When the Dirs in Djibouti, the Quranyow Garre in Mandhera District and the Dirs (Awdal and Italian Somaliland) in Somalia proper are also included, they easily exceed three million. Nonetheless, if Isaaq is added as a Dir subclan, then it gets close between Dir iyo Darood. If shit becomes Irir and Darood, no contest!
 
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There is a lot of ignorance in this thread. People should learn about who lives where and the lineage of the clans they are talking about.

Firstly, none of the maps and figures being used here are in any way accurate or reflect the clan make up of Greater Somalia.

Somalia_tribes1977.jpg


For example, in the above map, the Marehan and the Degodi do not share a border at Beled Xawo. It is the Garre that mainly inhabit Mandhera County. The Murulle are also excluded from the above map. Furthermore, the Degodi; Garre; Xawaadle and Galjeecel are not Hawiye but stand alone Samaale subclans. Western scholars bought into the biased narrative that Somalis are composed of 4 or so clans.

The way K5 is settled is also incorrect. Before the removal of the three Gurre Woredas, Southern Afdheer was settled by the Gurre; Gaadsan; Surre and Garire. The Ogaden and Degoodi did not really border each other. The Gurre had three woredas, Gariire in Ceelkari woreda, Gaadsan live on the West Bank of Jarrati Woreda, the Surre in Dolobay Woreda. Even the Northern K5 map is inaccurate, the Isaaq no longer live on the outskirts of Jijiga; the Yabarre are in between them and Jijiga. The Bajuni do not also predominately inhabit Kismayo as stated in the map. Even the CIA map which is based on second hand information and not field research, does not do Somalis justice.

Secondly, no clan census has ever been conducted. Even the first attempt at conducting a clan census ( Report on general survey of British Somaliland 1944 ) acknowledged the difficulty in estimating the population of Somali clans and argued that it was a sensitive subject among Somalis who were not willing to share the population figures for their clan. Furthermore, clans such as the Gadabursi and Ciise were found to inhabit Ethiopia more than Somalia. Most of the clan stats that people are throwing around here are based on that flawed paper.

If one was to make a comparison of Somali clans, the best way to go about is to look at the Deegans of the clans in question and their estimated population by a government census (Ethiopian CSA 2007) or the UN 2014 population estimate. The second one ain't perfect but it is the closest thing we have to a population cesnsus in the Somali Republic. In such a scenario, I would argue that within the borders of the Somali Republic, the largest clan is the Digil iyo Mirifle. Apart from the fact that they inhabit Bay iyo Bakool, they form the majority of Lower Shabelle and the bulk of IDP's throughout Somalia. Even in Banadir, they constitute a considerable percentage of the settled population in districts such as Madina. One cannot also forget that they also live on the Eastern Bank of Jubbaland. Darood would come second, Isaaq third, Proper Hawiye fourth.

It is a completely different picture when one looks at Greater Somalia; Darood is first by a mile then Dir comes second because a lot of people forget that there are around 2 millions Dirs when all their Woredas in K5 and the Dire Dawa Federal Region are added together. When the Dirs in Djibouti, the Quranyow Garre in Mandhera District and the Dirs (Awdal and Italian Somaliland) in Somalia proper are also included, they easily exceed three million. Nonetheless, if Isaaq is added as a Dir subclan, then it gets close between Dir iyo Darood. If shit becomes Irir and Darood, no contest!

Xawaadle and Gaaljecel are Hawiye, don't try to tell me what my own family members are :camby:
 

Bohol

VIP
@Thegoodshepherd Harti areas are under populated for the most part. Look at how empty
the Darood areas are that should tell you something that your population in Somalia is over exaggerated.


Somalia-Population-Density-Map.mediumthumb.jpg
 
Go ahead and make your Samaale brothers Bastards. Isir iyo Siyaasad Kala Sar!

Nigga you are literally trying to take away Hawiye clans in order to make it seem like we're the smallest clan. I have relatives from those clans and they are Hawiye no matter if some Dir guy says otherwise. :camby:
 
Nigga you are literally trying to take away Hawiye clans in order to make it seem like we're the smallest clan. I have relatives from those clans and they are Hawiye no matter if some Dir guy says otherwise. :camby:

Trolling are we? Not another fake account cos no real Hawiye will claim the clans in question abtirsi to Hawiye.:draketf:

In Somalia proper, you have Hiiraab (Habargidir, Duduble, Mudulood); Karanle (Murusade), Gugundhabe (Baadicade, Jajeele), Xaskul and Silcis Gorgarte.

Galjeecel are Saransoor Gardheere Samaale. Xawadle are Meyle Samaale.
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
@Thegoodshepherd Harti areas are under populated for the most part. Look at how empty
the Darood areas are that should tell you something that your population in Somalia is over exaggerated.


Somalia-Population-Density-Map.mediumthumb.jpg

You're right. Hawiye is undisputedly the largest clan in Somalia. I don't what the heck @Thegoodshepherd is talking about.

If you check the 1960 estimates in Somalia. Even Isaaq is bigger than Darood and it should not be suprising since Isaaq territories are way more dense compared to Darood territories.

KuXvCQO.jpg


I mean as you said. Most sources say Darood are 21% of Somalia after all. :manny:

Approximate-population-distribution-of-the-six-clan-families.png
 
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