Are childless women jealous of those with children?

Discussion in 'General' started by Tukraq, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. HalimaJ

    HalimaJ

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    Why are men obsessed with the choices of women?
     
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  2. VixR

    VixR Veritas VIP

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    You mean the nonexistent baby? How is that even a comparison? We all love many things over a nonexistent baby...

    It might be foreign to you, but Westerners love their pets. It doesn’t qualify anyone as a nutjob to do so.
    It’s bizarre.

    Never heard it said before that childless women hate women with children lol.
     
  3. Jaydaan

    Jaydaan

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    People have regrets in life. You telling me people make a decision in their 20s and everyone has the same outlook in their 40s?

    Women who has children and decide to focus on family gets a lot of snide comments. And it sure as he'll ain't coming from men. It usually comes from women who focused on their career and see these women as meek. I see this as I work with plenty of women in their 30s and 40s.
     
  4. Lostbox

    Lostbox 「Immortal Sage」

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  5. SilverL

    SilverL Unprofessional Therapist

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    jealous in a aww I wish I had kids sort of way but then it passes. Not a passionate or hateful jealousy. I’m sure some women who can’t have kids feel that way otherwise they wouldn’t kidnap babies, but as for women who do it by choice they might feel like what I mentioned above at most. But there is a whole other side to it. It’s also really great not to have kids some times..even people who have kids breath a sigh of relief when the kids asleep or with the baby sitter

    And then some people when I see them I feel grateful I don’t have kids. Like my friend, that girl is a mess and she can’t control her kids. Any time her kids come with her anywhere a short trip becomes a mission, going anywhere with her is a chore lol
     
  6. Omar del Sur

    Omar del Sur

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    So you accept and reject hadith based on whether they fit with your desires? I don't think that's how hadith science works. I also don't think that's how an honest Muslim should do things. You follow the hadith and adjust your own mentality based on Quran and Sunnah, not try to contort Quran and Sunnah to fit with your desires.

    I see that you tell lies very casually. Lies must just roll off your tongue.

    And then your post in general kind of twists things. I count two instances of simply just plain lying but then the post in general just sort of twists things. You have a lot of practice in being dishonest. And then you even mix in pretending to be pious. You have a forked tongue.

    I question whether you really believe in Islam.

    I saw the thread where you asked Aussie- an atheist- to explain the Quran https://www.somalispot.com/threads/aussie-come-in-your-expertise-is-needed.67117/

    So you want tafsir on the Quran and you go to an atheist? What honest, sincere Muslim goes to an atheist to learn about Islam?

    And you did it in a way that made a show of it.

    You casually tell lies, you make a display of going to an atheist to ask about the Quran..... your Islam is very, very suspect.

    So there are two outright lies, possibly three that I see in your post.

    In one case you lie about Allah, in another case you lie about me and in another case you possibly lie about me.

    "Prophet Yahya pbuh- son of Prophet Zakariye pbuh was especially described by Allaah swt as not the married kind this was among adjectives of praise used. God specifically declared Yahya had no " inclination" to marry. This is amazing in my eyes. It clearly states directly from God that not all human have an innate nature, primal inclination to marry or be a father. or mother for that matter."

    Allah specifically declares Yahya (peace be upon him) has no "inclination" to marry according to you ("inclination" in quotes). "This is amazing in my eyes. It clearly states directly from God that not all human have an innate nature, primal inclination to marry or be a father. or mother for that matter."

    Your lie you invented is amazing to you? So you make up a lie and then you're amazed by your lie? I think that is kind of amazing.

    Where does Allah say what you claim Allah said?

    "In Soorat Aal ‘Imraan Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “… noble, keeping away from sexual relations with women, a Prophet, from among the righteous”[Aal ‘Imraan 3:39]

    The word sayyid (translated here as “noble”) means one who is obeyed and followed by a large number of people.

    The word husoor (translated here as “keeping away from sexual relations with women”) means that he kept himself away from women even though he was able to have relations with them, as an act of devotion to Allaah. That was permissible according to his law, but the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is to marry, not to remain celibate"

    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/22248/the-prophet-of-allaah-yahyaa

    The Quran describes him as celibate. That is true. He was celibate as an act of devotion to Allah. You twist this to "Allah specifically declares Yahya (peace be upon him) has no "inclination" to marry according to you ("inclination" in quotes). "This is amazing in my eyes. It clearly states directly from God that not all human have an innate nature, primal inclination to marry or be a father. or mother for that matter.".

    So you twist what the Quran says, you lie and then you assert a general conclusion on human nature based on the lie you told while also mentioning that you're amazed by your own lie. In a way, I think it sort of is amazing. You lie about Allah, claiming Allah said something that Allah didn't say- and then build a case based on your lie.

    So... I thought that was the first lie but I see there's actually multiple lies just in that one section. I've lost track of how many times you lie. You lie then lie some more on the basis of your first lie.

    And then you also claim I'm a female in order to insult me. May Allah curse me if I'm not a male. You also claim I "hold radical Islamic propaganda". That's not proper English. I don't have "radical Islamic propaganda" in my hand but I assume the intended meaning is I hold radical views. You don't show what is radical about my views. Is it my anti-Halloween stance? I don't think speaking against Halloween is being ISIS, so I think that's possibly yet another lie.

    Then you also change the subject and make it about how it's up to Allah whether a woman has babies where as that wasn't even the subject........... I could go on and on but honestly, have some stuff to do so I want to wrap this up.

    "Lying is one of the characteristics of the hypocrites, and it is a blameworthy trait which encourages one to commit evil and prevents one from doing good. Al-Bukhaari (6094) and Muslim (2607) narrated that Ibn Mas‘ood (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “I enjoin you to be truthful, for truthfulness leads to righteousness and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man may continue to tell the truth and endeavour to be truthful until he is recorded with Allah as a speaker of truth. And beware of lying, for lying leads to wickedness and wickedness leads to Hell. A man may continue to tell lies and endeavour to tell lies, until he is recorded with Allah as a liar.”

    The worst kind of lying is telling lies about Allah and His Messenger, then spreading lies among people in order to cause trouble between them. Habitually telling lies when speaking is one of the characteristics of the hypocrites, as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “There are four characteristics, whoever has them all is a pure hypocrite, and whoever has one of them has one of the characteristics of hypocrisy, until he gives it up: when he is entrusted with something, he betrays that trust, when he speaks he lies, when he makes a covenant he betrays it, and when he disputes he resorts to obscene speech.”"

    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/233891/is-lying-worse-than-zina

    So worst case you're a straight-up munafiq (I'm not saying you are but.... picking an atheist to teach you Islam and also making a public display about it..... it's pretty suspect) or at the least you have at least one characteristic of hypocrisy.

    Mu’awiyyah ibn Haydah reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Woe to one who tells lies to make people laugh. Woe to him! Woe to him!”

    Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4990

    https://abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadithonline/2010/11/08/warning-lies-jokes/

    The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Insulting a Muslim is an evil action and fighting him is disbelief (kufr).”

    Narrated by al-Bukhaari (48) and Muslim (64).

    EDIT: and you take the last word, it's too much of a hassle to dissect what you say.... you're very good at making your words like a smokescreen
     
  7. Cam

    Cam

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    Both sides are jealous of each other. The grass is greener on the other side. ..
     
  8. HalimaJ

    HalimaJ

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    Some people are asexual. It is fine for them to not marry.

    Some people believe that they will never be able to fulfil the rights of a spouse. Therefore it is fine for them to not marry, like Ibn Taymiyya.

    Marriage is Sunnah. But if someone does not marry it is not a sin.
     
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  9. HalimaJ

    HalimaJ

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    Some men choose not to be fathers and regret it in old age as well. Why are the men here obsessed with bashing and micro managing the lives of women?

    There is a real sickness here when it comes to women. Every aspect of women's lives are dissected here. No stone is left unturned.
     
  10. Basra

    Basra Like Donald Trump, I like to be Spanked. VIP

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    Omar


    Before i engage in discussion with you....go watch this YOUTUBE video and come back to tell me you apologize and i was right. Mufti Menk Ismail here is quoting Quran directly


    Yes, i agree with you Prophet Yahya dedicated himself by being celibate. Allah swt used the word Hasur" meaning he did not marry. Mufti said Yahya pbuh did not feel the inclination.

    Hayeee Go,....


    Watch from 57:11 - 59:00

     
  11. Omar del Sur

    Omar del Sur

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    So I think it's a question of whether he was a normal man.....

    and a normal man or woman feels the desire...... if you're a normal, healthy man or woman you should feel the desire.....

    or whether he was.... altered in some sort of way where he simply didn't feel desire for the opposite sex......

    the Quran says waḥaṣūran

    which "The Quranic Arabic Corpus" translates as "and chaste"...

    http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=HSr#(3:39:17)

    I don't think it was the case that Prophet Yahya (peace be upon him) was a sort of asexual where he didn't feel desire..... I don't think that follows from what the Quran...

    the Quran describes him as chaste, apparently abstaining from women......

    this is like what monks do.... lots of monks and priests follow the same practice... it's not that the monks and priests don't feel desire.... it's that they're following monasticism......


    the fatwa below deals with women getting married but it also deals with men getting married as well.....




    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1665/is-it-obligatory-for-a-woman-to-get-married

    Is it obligatory for a woman to get married?


    1665

    Publication : 14-07-1998

    Views : 103070

    Aa
    Question
    Is it obligatory for a woman to get married?
    Answer

    Praise be to Allaah.

    In response to your question, we will look briefly at what some of the Muslim fuqahaa’ have written on this topic. In Mawaahib al-Jaleel it was said: “Marriage is obligatory for a woman who is unable to feed or clothe herself unless she gets married.” In al-Sharh al-Kabeer, concerning obligatory marriage it says: “If a person fears that he may commit fornication, it (marriage) is obligatory on him.” In Fath al-Wahhaab, it says: “For the woman who has (physical) desires, marriage is sunnah, just as it is for the one who needs maintenance and the one who fears being taken advantage of by immoral persons.”

    In Mughni al-Muhtaaj, it says: “(Marriage) becomes waajib (obligatory) if a person fears fornication… And it was said that it becomes obligatory if a person has made a vow (nadhr) to get married.” Then concerning the ruling with regard to women: “If she needs to get married, i.e., she has physical desires, or needs maintenance, or she is afraid that immoral people may take advantage of her… it is preferable (mustahabb) for her to get married, because this will protect her religion and her chastity, and she can enjoy what her husband spends on her, and other advantages.”

    Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his book al-Mughni: “Our colleagues differed as to whether marriage is obligatory. The best-known opinion in our madhhab is that it is not obligatory, except when a person is afraid of committing a forbidden deed if he does not marry. In that case he should make himself chaste (i.e. get married). This is the opinion of the majority of fuqahaa’.”

    When it comes to marriage, people are of three types, one of which is those who fear that they may commit forbidden deeds if they do not get married. It is obligatory for such people to get married, according to the majority of fuqahaa’, because it is obligatory for them to make themselves chaste and protect themselves from haraam. In Subul al-Salaam it says: “Ibn Daqeeq al-‘Eed said that some of the fuqahaa’ said that marriage is obligatory for the one who fears sin or hardship (because of suppressing physical desires) and is able to marry… and it is obligatory for the one who cannot avoid fornication unless he gets married.”

    In Badaa’i’ al-Sanaa’i’, it says: “There is no dispute that marriage is an obligation when desire is strong. If a person has such a strong desire for women that he cannot be patient, and he can afford to pay the mahr (dowry) and support a wife, then if he does not get married, he is a sinner.”

    From the above discussion, we can see a number of situations in which marriage is obligatory. You might ask: “How can we imagine a woman fulfilling this obligation when usually it is the man who goes around knocking on doors looking for a partner? This is not the woman’s role.” The answer is: what a woman can do to fulfil this command is not to refuse marriage when a suitable, compatible man comes with an offer of marriage.

    Muslim women and men need to understand the high status which marriage has in Islam, so that they will be more keen to marry. There follows a useful summary on this topic by Imaam Ibn Qudaamah al-Maqdisi (may Allaah have mercy on him), from his book al-Mughni:

    The basis of the legitimacy of marriage is the Qur’aan, Sunnah and ijmaa’ (consensus of the scholars). In the Qur’aan, Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings): ‘… marry women of your choice, two or three, or four…’ [al-Nisaa’ 4:3] and ‘And marry those among you who are single and (also marry) the saalihoon (pious, fit and capable ones) of your (male) slaves and maid-servants (female slaves)…’ [al-Noor 24:32]. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O young men! Whoever among you can afford it, let him get married, for this will lower his gaze and protect his chastity. Whoever cannot (get married), then let him fast, for fasting will be a protection for him.”

    (Agreed upon). There are many other ayaat and reports like these. The Muslims agree that marriage is legitimate.
    Ibn Mas’ood said: “If I only had ten days left to live, and I knew that I would die at the end of them, and I was able to get married, I would do so, for fear of fitnah (temptation).”

    Ibn ‘Abbaas said to Sa’eed ibn Jubayr: “Get married, for the best of this ummah are those who have more wives.” Ibraaheem ibn Maysarah said: “Taawoos said to me: ‘Either you get married, or I will say to you what ‘Umar said to Abu’l-Zawaa’id: There is nothing stopping you from getting married but either impotence or immorality!’ According to al-Mirwadhi, Ahmad said: ‘Celibacy has nothing to do with Islam. Whoever calls you not to get married is calling you to something other than Islam.’”

    Then he said (may Allaah have mercy on him):

    The benefits of marriage are many. They include: protecting one’s religion and helping one to adhere to it; protecting and taking care of women; and producing offspring and increasing the ranks of the ummah, thus achieving the pride of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), etc.

    [Translator’s note: there is a hadeeth which indicates that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) will feel proud of the large numbers of his ummah in the Hereaster, so Muslims are encouraged to marry and have many children.]
    It should now be clear that the benefits of marriage are many. No wise Muslim woman would hesitate to get married, especially if an offer of marriage comes from a person who is strongly committed to Islam and is possessed of a good character and morals.







    and then plus, I mean.....

    as to the issue of whether men and women have an innate desire for each other and to be fathers and mothers..... yes, the general rule is that they do........ yes, there might be exceptions like you might have someone born with some sort of abnormality..... and this feminist push of promoting for women to not get married.... I mean come on..... this is about women joining the Catholic church and becoming nuns....... it's about feminism and it involves a bunch of promiscuity.... for one, these women are not practicing celibacy, it's not about some sort of spiritual attainment.... generally, these women following the feminist ideology are committing zina....... they're just refusing sex, they're just having it outside of marriage...... then even if they actually are joining Catholicism and becoming nuns.... or simply practicing nunism without actually becoming Catholic.... that's not a practice which is part of Islam.... I think you're starting with a conclusion and then going backwards to justify a conclusion..... I think you're doing logical gymnastics the ayah mentioning the chastity of Prophet Yahya (peace be upon him) is not an endorsement of men and women not getting married......

    and I mean we have to be really, really gullible to think this modern trend of men and women not getting married is about following a spiritual practice like Prophet Yahya (peace be upon him)..... it's not the case that men and women are following a deviant spirital practice (that form of celibacy is not part of Islam, although it may have been a legitimate practice of pious people in previous times) on a mass scale and are refusing to marry to engage in religious devotion.... if we look around, we're not seeing a society of some sort of devout Catholicism.... these men and women aren't becoming monks and nuns.... they're having sex with random people and undermining the social fabric of society.... society is becoming more and more degenerate.... this is not a form of religious devotion or due to people having some sort of alteration where they don't have desire for the opposite sex.... they're not even practicing monasticism, they're practicing zina.... you might be able to find a Ripley's Believe it or Not case where a man or woman is born without natural desires for the opposite sex.... but probably more than 99% of men and women have the natural desires for intimacy and procreation... the Ripley's Believe it or Not case might be reflective of less than one percent of the population
     
  12. ZakWantsToPlay

    ZakWantsToPlay

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    People can love pets and take care of them. Kindness to animals should be part of human culture and we ought to feel responsible for their plight. With that said, Some of these pet owners take their love extreme to view their dogs to be equal to someone else's human baby. That is when these individuals give up their right to be considered human themselves.

    I still get emails soliciting donations from ASPCA because long ago I donated $30 signing a form and putting my credit card on there as a student at the University.

    There is difference between kindness and being an idiot. I had my own Cat as a young kid. Totally motivated to it whilst my parents were amused by the whole romance between me and my male cat. Nonetheless, I would have sacrificed the cat for a human, something some dog owners wouldn't accept.


    There are nutcases out there who don human body but are no different from xoolaha themselves.
     
  13. Omar del Sur

    Omar del Sur

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    Subjectively they may envy each other at times.... objectively, the women who have kids have better mental health, though..... mental health issues are way more prevalent among the women who get old without having kids than among the women who go the route which is normal and natural....

    you look at the old-school women.... the traditional women of the generations of people's grandmothers..... those women were way more happy and healthy than the "liberated" women of today.... you can blatantly see that the "liberated" women are much more prone to being basket cases..... you hear them talk a lot about "self-care"..... the generations of people's grandmother's.... the old-school generations didn't even have that term..... I'm sure they indulged in pastimes as well but they weren't nearly as neurotic and "self-care" wasn't part of their vocabulary.... "self-care" is central to the vocabulary of the feminists of today, though.... and discussion of "coping" and things related to mental health problems...... if the feminists (not you, I doubt you're that type) want to challenge me on the point, I think I could pull up some statistics..... the women of today are more depressed and the statistics back me on that
     
  14. Omar del Sur

    Omar del Sur

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    I address that in my previous response to Basra. I think it's clear that I'm not talking about the.... possibly less than one percent of the population.... that is asexual. And that's not the issue. What is taking place in our society is not the advent of people becoming monks and nuns in mass. It's the breakdown of marriage and family and the degeneration of society. One would have to be very blind to not see that.
     
  15. HalimaJ

    HalimaJ

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    Men are very much as depressed. The number one killer of men under the age of 45 is suicide.

    Depression is a problem that both genders deal with.

    Women in the past were dealing with a lot more hardships and didn't have the luxury of self care. Nor did society even acknowlege people's deteriorating mental health. They just locked them up and treated them like animals once they became 'basket cases'.

    Furthermore, people are alot more aware about mental health and the importance of dealing with ones health. In the past, mental illness was treated like plague and many were locked up without remorse. The same problem exists till this day back home. Mental illness is rife, but people have a backward take on it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  16. ZakWantsToPlay

    ZakWantsToPlay

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    Don't you think their self-care comes from their survival instincts in cultures that view them as a commodity to trade and demands from them certain looks and behaviour all geared towards male pleasure? Eating disorders, weight watching, and acute self-awareness solely based on who will look at them as they step outside are what forces women to come up with coping mechanisms. Some of these women do not realize how burdensome their local culture is and parcticipate in their debasement untill they step outside of it or somehow expand their horizon beyond what they are used to.

    Feminism is not all evil. It has many good objectives born out of willingness to fight the abuse and ignorance of their societies. West and East, Islam or Christian, nations have plenty of their own abusive cultures that make it necessary for women to fight for themselves.

    In that struggle, naturally there are evil forces who hijack the causes women have and introduce self-defeating policies as progressive steps. It is for smart women to distinguish between good feminism and bad feminism so their communities can help them achieve their nobler goals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  17. Omar del Sur

    Omar del Sur

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    I'm not tryna be rude but I'm in the middle of something, I saw this sentence and I didn't read the rest.

    Don't appease feminism. Feminism is evil and it is part of a Satanic agenda to undermine religion and family. You don't have to bend the knee, just save up and when the time is right buy you a plane ticket. Don't cuck.
     
  18. HalimaJ

    HalimaJ

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    I'm not a feminist in any shape or form, but many men fail to acknowledge that feminism wouldn't exist, if female abuse wasn't a problem.

    Many misogynistic men hark on about the good ol days when they can transgress and mistreat women without any impunity or consequences. That was the reality for women and then we have @Omar del Sur talking about how supposedly happy they were.
     
  19. ZakWantsToPlay

    ZakWantsToPlay

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    What is your view of women working? What is your view of women driving themselves around to attend to their needs? What is your view of girls getting educated? The right to education for women in general? The right to freedom to own and run business of their own?

    Saxib, a little note to you, I AM SOMALI and we take pride in our women being independent. So our culture is condusive to women taking care of themselves as much as we expect our males to be responsible for them through social contracts. Convince me that we are wrong in letting our women do all of the above in the questions I asked you.

    In many countries, women lack these basic rights. For that reason they need male and female movements organized to help women achieve their goals in life.

    This is what I see as good feminism, the right of my daughter to marry who she pleases within the islamic community, the right of my sister to own her business and drive her own car. The right to leave her husband if he is abusive and not treating her well,. The right of my aunt to dictate her life as she sees fit. Tell me what is unsilamic about this.
     
  20. Omar del Sur

    Omar del Sur

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    Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan about Women Driving

     
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