How's it true that Hamarweyne was built from red blooded golds mysteriously found under the skin of a camel ??
Xamar was established by nomads
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Emir of Zayla
๐น๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐ป๐๐๐๐
Other cities have weird foundational myths too. The point of it is Somalis seriously settled into the area of Xamar from a normal settlement into a growing cityHow's it true that Hamarweyne was built from red blooded golds mysteriously found under the skin of a camel ??
You lack serious reading comprehension. I said the ruling establishment of Zeila predominantly consisted of Arabs. I literally showed each Arab tribe that ruled Zeila. You didn't show me a single Somali tribe that ruled Zeila before the 19th century. You couldn't even name their tribes. By the way, the Arab tribes had a very strong relationship with the semetic-speaking elements in Ifat and Adal.Before I refute your points, I need to figure out what point youโre making lmao. First you say that Zeila was an entirely Arab city. Then you say that Zeila was primarily settled by ethio-semites. Which one is it? You said that Zeila was ruled by the Sultan of Ifat, whom you said was an Arab. But the Sultan of Ifat was a part of the Walashma dynasty, which you said was Harla. You also said that the Sultanate of Ifat was led by Ethio-semites. Which one is it??? Which non-Somali group are you crediting with our accomplishments this time?
Watching you trip over yourself to deny Somali history is the most hilarious thing Iโve seen all week.
The Walashma dynasty was founded by Arabs. The first ruler of the Walashma dynasty was Umar Dunya Huz. I never claimed the Walashma dynasty was Harla. Adal was primarily led by the Ethio-Semites.
The ethnic composition of Zeila at the time of Ibn Battuta primarily consisted of Ethio-Semetic-speaking tribes. I gave you a detailed and extensive analysis of the ethnic composition in Zeila at the time of Ibn Battuta's visit to the town.
Show me any concrete evidence that Somalis founded and built Mogadishu. Give me a comprehensive and well-detailed analysis showing Somalis inhabited Mogadishu before the Arabs. Show me the Somali tribes that lived in Zeila and Mogadishu prior to Arab migration into the town. Stop running away. Do you acknowledge that the Banu Qahtaan were the first tribes of Mogadishu?
wHaT iS aGreED uPoN bY rERr xAmar. How far the reer xamar calender goes back? Could you provide any when Ximyarids estabilshed the city, and why they didn't mention it anywhere?
Show proof for your outrageous claims. Show me a single ancient or medieval structure built by Somalis in Mogadishu. The first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan. This is well documented. There are manuscripts preserved by the qadhis of Mogadishu that were passed down, showing the indigenous tribes that inhabited Mogadishu.
Emir of Zayla
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Iโm not gonna bother arguing with you. Youโve been proven wrong countless times. I donโt have to prove anything, Mogadishu being founded by Somalis is a given, itโs you that has to prove otherwise.
I literally gave you an extensive and comprehensive analysis showing the ethnic composition of Mogadishu since its founding. Wallahi, you just keep disregarding all my sources. I will repeat it one more time. Read the Banadiri Warriors post showing that the first tribes of Mogadishu were the Banu Qahtaan.
Allah warns us about repetitive lying. Fear Allah and stop adding your own distorted interpretation about Mogadishu on Wikipedia. Stop gaslighting and deflecting.
attash
Amaan Duule
You did not say that. You said the Zeila was ENTIRELY Arab until the 19th century. This is what you said:
Now you are saying this:
Youโve been caught stumbling. Just give up and admit that you were wrong lil bro
. Either Zeila was โentirely Arabโ or Zeila was โprimarily ethio-Semiteโ. Itโs one or the other, it canโt be both. The hilarious part is that neither Arabs nor ethio-semites are anywhere to be found if you actually go to Zeila. Itโs an entirely Somali city inhabited by the Dir. Some Arabs have migrated to Zeila historically and lived there as guests, but there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of an โethio-Semiteโ presence in Zeila. When Ibn Battuta describes the inhabitants of Zeila as negro Berberahs, he is obviously talking about the Somalis, as they are the only dark skinned people that live in the vicinity of this location. But for some reason it is impossible for you to come to this unavoidable conclusion .It's sad that I need to spell this out for you, but Mogadishu and Zeila are both Somali inhabited cities located in Somali lands. I don't need evidence that Somalis founded these cities any more than I need evidence that Italians founded Rome. It's you that needs valid evidence that foriegners built these cities, evidence that you failed to provide no matter how much you say you did. Simply saying "the ethnic composition of Zeila at the time of Ibn Battuta primarily consisted of Ethio-Semetic-speaking tribes" does not count as detailed analysis.
This is misleading akhi. Somalis have been settled in Zeila since atleast the 18th century, in this passage by [Harar P.Paulitsckhe, 49] from the 18th century it reads "There are basically few settled Somals, but Gadabursi (Dir) and Habr Awal (Isaaq) in particular who achieved modest fortune through happy speculations, settled in the city or live there for at least part of the year as permanent or occasional agents of their wild brothers.โ So to say it was entirely Arab until the colonial era is untrue.
attash
Amaan Duule
Look my brother, no one cares about your imaginary manuscripts. Provide eyewitness sources like I did or sit down.
Let me present to you what Ibn Battuta said in the clearest possible way:
...a town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. Their land is a desert extending for two months' journey from Zayla to Maqdashaw.
The sultan, who's name is Abu Bakr, is of Berberah origin, and he talks in the Maqdishi language, though he knows Arabic.
From Ibn Battuta's statements, we derive two axioms:
Axiom A: The Berberah are a non-Arab negro people who's land extends from Zeila to Mogadishu.
Axiom B: The Sultan of Mogadishu was a Berberah.
From these two axioms, we can establish a conclusion:
Conclusion 1: The Sultan of Mogadishu was a non-Arab negro. Specifically, he belonged to a non-Arab negro group who's land extended from Zeila to Mogadishu. He was NOT an Arab and he was NOT cad-cad.
There is only one group that fits this description: the Somalis. Knowing this, we can establish a second conclusion:
Conclusion 2: The Sultan of Mogadishu was Somali.
Objection: But "reer Samale" aren't mentioned by Ibn Battuta!
It doesn't matter. Whether he was "reer Samaale" or he was Digil, he was still a Somali as these are all Somali groups. The word "Benaadiri" isn't mentioned by Ibn Battuta, does this mean that Benadiris didn't inhabit the city at that time?
Now we will see if you understand this breakdown, or if generations of inbreeding have impaired your cognitive faculties beyond hope.
Your breakdown provides no sources and is actually in direct conflict with the sources @Shimbiris presented. For example, you say that Yacquub are a majority gibil-cad confederation, when the Italian source describes Yacquub as being a sub of Darandoole.
Another example is when you say Saddex Geedi is half gibil-cad, while the Italian source says Saddex Geedi are gibil-madow.
This would be fine if you provided a source, especially a native Benaadiri source, but you didn't. I'm just supposed to take your word for it. That's not how debates work.
I don't need evidence, Kulaha. Arabs were guests at Zeila Kulaha. You couldn't provide a single substantial or concrete piece of evidence to back any of your ridiculous assertions. You are just waffling all over the place. You couldn't name a single Dir ruler in Zeila. I showed all the Arab tribes that ruled Zeila and Mogadishu. You think having modern-day geographical proximity to a region is a vital component of showing your indigenousness.You did not say that. You said the Zeila was ENTIRELY Arab until the 19th century. This is what you said:
Now you are saying this:
Youโve been caught stumbling. Just give up and admit that you were wrong lil bro
It's sad that I need to spell this out for you, but Mogadishu and Zeila are both Somali inhabited cities located in Somali lands. I don't need evidence that Somalis founded these cities any more than I need evidence that Italians founded Rome. It's you that needs valid evidence that foriegners built these cities, evidence that you failed to provide no matter how much you say you did. Simply saying "the ethnic composition of Zeila at the time of Ibn Battuta primarily consisted of Ethio-Semetic-speaking tribes" does not count as detailed analysis.
According to you, Dir lives in Zeila today; therefore, they are indigenous to the town. Hawiye live in Mogadishu today; therefore, they are indigenous to the city. Somalis predominantly reside in Minnesota; therefore, they are indigenous to the city. Your thought process and train of thought are absurd.
You didn't show any manuscripts, gravesites, archeological evidence, or a single ancient structure built by Somalis in those two cities. You need to make a personal commitment to search for the truth by examining the evidence and thinking rationally. You also need to get rid of insidious factors that lead you to think irrationally and engage emotionally. You really need to work on your cognitive skills.
He literally provided the manuscripts persevered by the qahdis in Mogadishu, showing that the first tribes of Mogadishu were the banu qahtaan. This delusional hotep is killing me. Stop running away from the manuscripts. I will quote it one more time.You did not say that. You said the Zeila was ENTIRELY Arab until the 19th century. This is what you said:
Now you are saying this:
Youโve been caught stumbling. Just give up and admit that you were wrong lil bro
It's sad that I need to spell this out for you, but Mogadishu and Zeila are both Somali inhabited cities located in Somali lands. I don't need evidence that Somalis founded these cities any more than I need evidence that Italians founded Rome. It's you that needs valid evidence that foriegners built these cities, evidence that you failed to provide no matter how much you say you did. Simply saying "the ethnic composition of Zeila at the time of Ibn Battuta primarily consisted of Ethio-Semetic-speaking tribes" does not count as detailed analysis.
attash
Amaan Duule
You mentioned Arab tribes ruling over Zeila, but you didn't provide evidence. You mentioned Arab tribes ruling over Mogadishu, but you didn't provide evidence. You can mention all the things you like, but I'm going to need evidence. In the meantime, my evidence includes an eye-witness account saying that both Zeila and Mogadishu were inhabited and controlled by negro Berberahs, NOT Arabs. It's painstakingly clear who these Berberahs are, but you just won't admit it.
Are Somalis the majority in Minnesota? Is Minnesota a historically Somali territory?
If an eye-witness source describing the ruling elite in Mogadishu as non-Arab negroes isn't enough for you, I don't know what to say to you. You haven't provided me any eye-witness sources thus far.
attash
Amaan Duule
Are those manuscripts eye-witness accounts?
attash
Amaan Duule
I also love how you are avoiding addressing the massive contradiction I just pointed out in your claims of Zeila's ethnic composition. I guess Zeila is both an entirely Arab city and a primarily ethio-semite city. Anything other than Somali.
Sxb you actually reinforced my original point. Name a single Dir or Somali ruler in Zeila prior to the 19th century. The historic city of Zeila was originally founded by Arabs. The ruling elite of Zeila primarily consisted of Arabs for the majority of history. The passage you showed me doesn't prove anything substantial.
The only mention of a Somali ruler in Zeila was Hajji Sharmake. He ruled Zeila in the 19th century. There was literally a wall constructed in Zeila to keep out Somali nomads. This is well documented. Somali nomads started entering Zeila after the walls were taken down. They didn't even build established settlements.
You have to understand that nomads are constantly on the move in search of water and pasture for their livestock. Nomads don't stay and settle in one place. They are constantly on the move.
Authors such as Ibn Hawqal, Al Muqaddaai, and Ibn Said have confirmed the early presence of Arabian tribes in municipalities such as Berbera and Zeila. They record and speak in great detail about the Arab tribes that lived in Zeila. Their subclan and the regions they controlled are well documented. Zeila was an Arab city until the 19th century.
Hussein Al Zaylici is a subclan of Banu Aqeel, according to the book Aqeeliyoon and three major Islamic historians. They ruled Zeila for a brief period of time. The Makhzumi Arabs also ruled Zeila. The Mawyanni Arabs ruled Zeila in the 10th century. Show me any evidence of a Somali ruler in Zeila prior to the 19th century?
Zero correlation whatsoever, he wasn't from any samaale clan , samaale's didn't reside in Muqdisho at the time and you've got no way to prove it. Local manuscripts written by natives take precedence over foreign eye witnesses, if what the travelers says agrees with the known history of muqdisho then it's taken simple as that. Banaadiri isn't an ethnic group, simply means people of Banaadir doesn't need to be mentioned because the whole coast was inhabited by banaadiris not specific areas just like how whole Swahili coast was inhabited by swahilis or whole bajuni coast was inhabited by bajunis
That source is incorrect, we don't need Italian sources to tell us about our alliances when we know it ourselves .
Yacquub is an alliance of
1- Reer Cali Imaam
2- Faqi Cali ( Shaanshi)
3-Abaakarow ( Hatimi)
4- Abdisamad
580 covers Yacquub alliance+ Ba Fadhal.
Same thing mentioned in Shariif Caydaruus book.
I said half of the 650 would be gibil cad as in the census the 650 covers reer sheekh and the seddex geedi which is an alliance of
1- Aadandheere ( Gibil Cad)
2- Indhoweyne (mixed confederacy)
3- Ba Sadiq (Gibil Cad)
4- Alaa-uddin ( Gibil Cad)
5 - Reer Cabdalla ( garjante)
6- Cawaale ( hawiye caye)
The same incorrect source you used doubts the gibil madow of seddex being of free origin ie saying they're not samaale which is incorrect.
I've clarified all the doubts now, don't want to see any hotep trying to claim otherwise , the census shows that gibil madow reer samaale's were infact lesser than other gibil madows.
Not according to Caydaruus.
ูุนู ุฑูุง ุจูุฐุง ุงูุฐูุจ ุงูุจูุงุฏ ูู ุง ุงูุชููุง ู ู ุจููุงููุง ูุนู ุฑุงููุง ุณู ู ุฐูู ุงูู ูุงู: (ุญู ุฑููู)
It was named Xamar weyne immediately after those Somalis built the town in time immemorial
If you have nothing of substance to bring to the thread don't bother to reply sxb. Xamar was built from the wealth that red gold brought to the man and his wife. That's what we believe That's what we choose to believe. Who are you to make fun of us? Do you have better more believable stories for the foundation of the town?How's it true that Hamarweyne was built from red blooded golds mysteriously found under the skin of a camel ??
Nope, he doesn't state that, anyone that knows a pinch of Arabic would be able to know, You can't prove reer samaale presence at the time either, xamar is well older than Samaale, you can't name who their supposed descendants would be .
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