Would Somaliland accept to give up Sool, Sanaag and CAYN

[Gantaal97]

If somali government agree that all states will share equal seats do you think that somaliland will rejoin somalia

Like I said before Somaliland can't enter a union with the south under the so called "Federal system" and if there's an agreement between JSL representatives and Somalia's representatives it should be about founding a new governing system built by Somali people

 

[Muzaffer]

Like I said before Somaliland can't enter a union with the south under the so called "Federal system" and if there's an agreement between JSL representatives and Somalia's representatives it should be about founding a new governing system built by Somali people

Would you agree to centralised somalia and abolish federal tribal systems and 4.5 and make the nation based on nationalism.

 

[Gantaal97]

I'd have to disagree with you on that, saaxiib.

What would Somaliland possibly gain by any change that Somalia's politician would/could make? Nothing, nada, zilch. There is nothing to be gained by ever thinking about reuniting with Konfuurians. Long before Afweyne came to power, they showed themselves to be underhanded, disingenuous and corrupt to the core. Hence why they were called Wanlaweyn for a reason. Cali Mahdi & the USC continued that tradition in going back on the agreement they had with the SNM. They cannot be trusted.

Somaliland has through blood, soil and sweat carved out a political system that works for us now. There is a lot of it that needs improving, but the Somaliland can and will work together to do that, as we've shown over the last 30 years. Upturning all that, for a pipedream that you can somehow ever agree with Konfuurians on anything ever again is suicidal thinking.

I agree with everything you said it's just a hypothetical answer if the situation in somalia settle downs and talks between SL and Somalia moves towards a unity and I don't want to see that

 

[Gantaal97]

Would you agree to centralised somalia and abolish federal tribal systems and 4.5 and make the nation based on nationalism.

No I don't agree with centralized government system but give more power to regions by setting up a devolved system where regions are governed by elected council and not a tribal states and 4.5 should be getting rid of and for your last point nationalism is a foreign idea brought from the west and the nation should be based on nabad and equality

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

I agree with everything you said it's just a hypothetical answer if the situation in somalia settle downs and talks between SL and Somalia moves towards a unity and I don't want to see that

Understood brother.

I hope Somalia becomes a peaceful, stable and prosperous country. However, even then I wouldn't want to reunite. I hope we can be two equally successful, but totally separate nations.

 

[Gadhwayne]

If somali government agree that all states will share equal seats do you think that somaliland will rejoin somalia

Do you understand that JSL is 1 of 2 founding partners in the former union that used to be the SomaaliRepublic? JSL does not have the same status of a clan state, such as Migiurtinia, within the exSomaaliaItaaliaana

No I don't agree with centralized government system but give more power to regions by setting up a devolved system where regions are governed by elected council and not a tribal states and 4.5 should be getting rid of and for your last point nationalism is a foreign idea brought from the west and the nation should be based on nabad and equality

The 4.5 formula and clan federalism were designed by ajnabi to undermine a strong Irir led Muqdisho government from emerging. As long as they prevent a strong Muqdisho government there can neither be a formalization of JSL defacto independence or reunificaiton. OP is entertaining a fantasy of Daaroodist ideology supporters to explain the problem between JSL and Wanlaweyn/Muqdisho/SomaaliaItaliana

 

[Gantaal97]

Do you understand that JSL is 1 of 2 founding partners in the former union that used to be the SomaaliRepublic? JSL does not have the same status of a clan state, such as Migiurtinia, within the exSomaaliaItaaliaana

Good point and also PL is a major hurdle to any talks between SL and Somalia as it claims Somaliland eastern borders and wants to be on the negotiations table

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

Good point and also PL is a major hurdle to any talks between SL and Somalia as it claims Somaliland eastern borders and wants to be on the negotiations table

As all Somaliland-Somalia discussion to date have shown, PL will never be at the table. The same way KG, Hirshabelle, Jubbaland and Galmudug are not at the table.

 

[Gantaal97]

As all Somaliland-Somalia discussion to date have shown, PL will never be at the table. The same way KG, Hirshabelle, Jubbaland and Galmudug are not at the table.

Since Somalia govt doesn't control most of the country and there's no equal views between somalia's politicians I think Somaliland should never hold talks with them until they all come under one view in their delegation

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

Since Somalia govt doesn't control most of the country and there's no equal views between somalia's politicians I think Somaliland should never hold talks with them until they all come under one view in their delegation

As useless, powerless and incompetent as Farmaajo is, he is the internationally recognised president for Somalia. We would only need to negotiate with him or his replacement. Any agreement we signed with him or his replacement would be be binding for all of Somalia.

 

[Som]

You don't make sense at all lol what demographics you talking about lol

The only way Somaliland would come back to the union is if there's a willing from Somalia's politician to change their political system and call for a national dialogue that will determine the new type of system of governance in the country that everyone in the nation agrees on cuz somaliland was never a part of the creation of federal system in xamar and doesn't recognize it and many somalis in the south don't even like the system.

Interesting. It seems though that landers don't really care for dialogue or inclusion. You guys complain that you were neglected by the previous regimes which is only partially true, isaaqs had key politicians in the kacaan governement and had power like the other major clans.
Do you think somalilanders would be open to reunification if they were included in the creation of a new system maybe with key positions for lander politicians? I'm not sure if somalilanders (mostly isaaq) would accept even if the deal is 100% favourable to SL

 

[Som]

Since Somalia govt doesn't control most of the country and there's no equal views between somalia's politicians I think Somaliland should never hold talks with them until they all come under one view in their delegation

Delaying talks with somalia means delaying your beloved recognition.
Talking with somalia is the only chance Somaliland has to get recognized

 

[Som]

Somaliland legally can't let go those territories because daroods played a huge role for the foundation of Somaliland and we have their politicians and elders in Hargeisa

Understandable but it's the same for Somalia.
We could say we can't accept Somaliland separation because isaaqs played a huge role in building the Somali Republic and we have your politicians in the federal parliament and governement.
The deal is simple in my opinion.
You let go daroods, we let isaaqs have an independent Somaliland.
Everyone is happy

 

[Som]

Impossible now that Somaliland has persisted in claiming to be the successor of British Somaliland for over 30 years. They cannot turn back now to a clan claim to secession without losing all the built up political capital.

It is a catch-22:

1- In order for Somaliland to secede legally it has to be based on the borders of the British protectorate.

2-A Somaliland based on the British protectorate's borders will not gain recognition because it will be seen as unstable due to the presence of a large opposing population.

Many in Somaliland would be willing to accept secession without Darood lands, but they don't want to talk about that because it would weaken their hand in future negotiations. The problem is that there simply is not enough time before demographic realities change the facts on the ground. Somalia's FGS is incompetent and unable to reach any consistent decision about what is an acceptable outcome. By the time the FGS has decided to become serious about negotiations, the pro-secession majority will be significantly smaller than it is today, and may even slip to being just a plurality.

Interesting. How is demography going to change though? As long as isaaqs are the majority in Somaliland i don't think the pro separstism majority will decrease.
Isaaqs are probably 99% pro independence and the few unionist isaaqs are pressured to agree with the separatist ones.

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

Understandable but it's the same for Somalia.
We could say we can't accept Somaliland separation because isaaqs played a huge role in building the Somali Republic and we have your politicians in the federal parliament and governement.
The deal is simple in my opinion.
You let go daroods, we let isaaqs have an independent Somaliland.
Everyone is happy

You do understand the difference about not being able to do something legally, as opposed to just saying you can't let something go because you feel it is valuable to you?

 

[Gantaal97]

Understandable but it's the same for Somalia.
We could say we can't accept Somaliland separation because isaaqs played a huge role in building the Somali Republic and we have your politicians in the federal parliament and governement.
The deal is simple in my opinion.
You let go daroods, we let isaaqs have an independent Somaliland.
Everyone is happy

Sxb as badly as you guys want to portray JSL as qabil state just remember the longest serving president and first elected somali politician in popular vote in the region didn't came from isaaq as JSL is a nationhood for residents of Somaliland and we don't the tribal system that exists in xamar.

The difference between daroods in Hargeisa and isaaq or dirs in xamar is that the former are elected by their people and the latter in hotels in Mogadishu

 

[Gantaal97]

Delaying talks with somalia means delaying your beloved recognition.
Talking with somalia is the only chance Somaliland has to get recognized

What's there to talk about when xamar can't govern its federal states where two are at open rebillion against their govt

 

[Gantaal97]

Interesting. How is demography going to change though? As long as isaaqs are the majority in Somaliland i don't think the pro separstism majority will decrease.
Isaaqs are probably 99% pro independence and the few unionist isaaqs are pressured to agree with the separatist ones.

You know there's no official census in somaliland and somalia for more than 40 years lol

 

[Som]

You know there's no official census in somaliland and somalia for more than 40 years lol

Of course but we kinda roughly know the percentages of each clan

 

[Gantaal97]

Of course but we kinda roughly know the percentages of each clan

Biggest clan in the north is known and that won't change anything