Would Somaliland accept to give up Sool, Sanaag and CAYN

[Wir]

HAG follows neutrality in the northern conflict because if Somaliland is recognised it will have a domino effect on the region which creates problems for us, not solving problems. If Somaliland is kept in the Union then it should not be administered as one region equal to SWS or Galmudug. There will be a South and North power sharing 60/40 or it will be split into two Federal regions. The Isaaq will have their two state quota like Jubaland and Puntland. They can name Dir and Harti VP's for each state. Togdheer, Sool and Sanaag will form a region (North Central or Waqooyi dhexe), W.Galbeed and Awdal will join as one (North West) and Bari+Nugaal will be North East. This was exactly the structure in 1960.

@Mumin @convincation @Galool @Bariire

This is far from neutrality mate. Somalia would never turn into many independent nations and you and I know that only Somaliland has the history to back up its claim to recognition. Mj fear losing harti and being left alone with only one other darood clan marehan, who are more integrated with Hawiye and rahanweyn, that's why they claim their borders in their constitution on a darood basis. Had they been in sool and sanaag and dhulos and warsangeli in Bari and Nugaal, then the MJ would more than likely fight tooth and nail for SL independence because they put interest over tribe and use the darood tribe for their subclans interest As for HAG, HAG simply wants to hold control over the former Somali Republic and maintain their dominance on a somali dawlad. HAG don't see Somaliland as an equal shareholder to the Somali republic and that's why you made a ridiculous suggestion of power sharing of "south and north" 60/40% and breaking Somaliland into 2 federal states. A laughable and disrespectful suggestion . That will never materialize and it's best for HAG to wake up from this power induced coma and look for their more reachable interests as a tribe. Somaliland will never settle for anything within Somalia or on equal footings with Somalia Italiana. We will maintain and keep growing and building ties with other nations

 

[Yukon_Niner]

SNM was liberation front we don't care about your cry cuz aabo siyaad got karabashed by idoors keep crying for the glorious days of kacaan

Walaal no one cares about a man who's been gone for 30 years, he's a failed dictator who couldn't even do the basic authoritarian moves China and North Korea pulled off with ease. Laakin there's only one group of people here who still cry about it every year like he personally touched their private parts while celebrating their current warlord who robs them blind, Lord bixi.

Every shitty state vying for independence is part of Somalia, mirqaan dreams won't change reality. No major nation will recognise your tribal shitholes and it's something you'll all have to live with.

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

Anything that goes against your made up reality is konfuurian calcaaling yariisow. Folks here can't even admit or figure out why another qabil doesn't want to be part of a qabil state.

The North ain't peaceful, atrocities were committed and no one forgets. Some SSC weirdo here can probably provide you with a source on whatever the SNM did, I've seen enough of it already.

Stop running from the question:

Who was massacring who?

 

[Gantaal97]

Walaal no one cares about a man who's been gone for 30 years, he's a failed dictator who couldn't even do the basic authoritarian moves China and North Korea pulled off with ease. Laakin there's only one group of people here who still cry about it every year like he personally touched their private parts while celebrating their current warlord who robs them blind, Lord bixi.

Every shitty state vying for independence is part of Somalia, mirqaan dreams won't change reality. No major nation will recognise your tribal shitholes and it's something you'll all have to live with.

Warya SNM is dead since 1993 and Bixi as much as I dislike him he was never a warlord as many of you koonfurians in the internet think, he was only a rebel commander of a armed battalion in SNM where leadership of SNM was held by a political civilian central committee and above that was Guurti that consisted of tribal elders to maintain the unity and moral of several sub clans in the group not to divert from the goal of fighting against the regime

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

Walaal no one cares about a man who's been gone for 30 years, he's a failed dictator who couldn't even do the basic authoritarian moves China and North Korea pulled off with ease. Laakin there's only one group of people here who still cry about it every year like he personally touched their private parts while celebrating their current warlord who robs them blind, Lord bixi.

Every shitty state vying for independence is part of Somalia, mirqaan dreams won't change reality. No major nation will recognise your tribal shitholes and it's something you'll all have to live with.

You spend too much listening to gossip and not enough time studying what is actually true.

Case in point: In this thread no-one was crying about anything until you started calaacaling about people being massacred. Yet, you think others are calaacaling.

Spend more of your time actually studying the topics you post about, instead of regurgitating what your likely cuqdad ridden relatives told you.

 

[OffTheDome]

Sanaag is Isaaq majority, Buuhoodle district is part of Togdheer, no such thing as “cayn” and the Eastern Sool community are proud landers. But continue your calaal anyways

 

[Yukon_Niner]

Stop running from the question:

Who was massacring who?

Didn't even need to go that far. First Amnesty link provides some info on it, Muse Bixi was an OG warlord youngster. Man was killing people before and after.

Ninyahow it's Somalia, you're either turning a blind eye or

.
Somaliland has also had its own internal conflicts. Clashes between different Issaq
sub-clans in Burao and other towns in January 1992 left hundreds of combattants dead.
Further conflicts flared up in later months and led to outbreaks of fighting between Issaq
sub-clans and disputes between the SNM and non-Issaq clan groupings, each with its own
armed group controlling its territory. Although nowhere near the scale of the slaughter in
Mogadishu, the internal political crisis in Somaliland, combined with growing insecurity and
failure to obtain international aid to re-start the economy, affected relief work by international
non-governmental agencies and efforts to rebuild the region devastated by Siad Barre's
troops in 1988.

Warya SNM is dead since 1993 and Bixi as much as I dislike him he was never a warlord as many of you koonfurians in the internet think, he was only a rebel commander of a armed battalion in SNM where leadership of SNM was held by a political civilian central committee and above that was Guurti that consisted of tribal elders to maintain the unity and moral of several sub clans in the group not to divert from the goal of fighting against the regime

I ain't Konfuurian you morons, goddamn can you people not understand not everyone see's shit through your idiotic lenses. I don't care about qabil I have the luck of living in a United country. I also care about country.

North Korea has a higher GDP per capita than any Somali region. Syria's recovering faster than Somalia.

You spend too much listening to gossip and not enough time studying what is actually true.

Case in point: In this thread no-one was crying about anything until you started calaacaling about people being massacred. Yet, you think others are calaacaling.

Spend more of your time actually studying the topics you post about, instead of regurgitating what your likely cuqdad ridden relatives told you.

Barre literally killed people in my family, hell I still have relatives who hate him. I swear to god you sound like you get your info from relatives and your abtirsi from Wikipedia

You've all gotten so desensitised to your constant calcaaling about independence that you don't even think it's annoying. I like reminding you guys about that sithole in the middle of nowhere so you can feel big before I remind you you're part of Somalia.

 

[Gantaal97]

Didn't even need to go that far. First Amnesty link provides some info on it, Muse Bixi was an OG warlord youngster. Man was killing people before and after.

Ninyahow it's Somalia, you're either turning a blind eye or


I ain't Konfuurian you morons, goddamn can you people not understand not everyone see's shit through your idiotic lenses. I don't care about qabil I have the luck of living in a United country. I also care about country.

North Korea has a higher GDP per capita than any Somali region. Syria's recovering faster than Somalia.

Barre literally killed people in my family, hell I still have relatives who hate him. I swear to god you sound like you get your info from relatives and your abtirsi from Wikipedia

You've all gotten so desensitised to your constant calcaaling about independence that you don't even think it's annoying. I like reminding you guys about that sithole in the middle of nowhere so you can feel big before I remind you you're part of Somalia.

I would say it again Ina Bixi wasn't a warlord he would love to be one so he and his goons could have had a control of Hargeisa and Berbera and carve a state for his people

 

[Yukon_Niner]

I would say it again Ina Bixi wasn't a warlord he would love to be one so he and his goons could have had a control of Hargeisa and Berbera and carve a state for his people

Look man one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Everyone here will justify why their warlord was different and is actually good dude, I don't need to hear it.

 

[Gadhwayne]

HAG follows neutrality in the northern conflict because if Somaliland is recognised it will have a domino effect on the region which creates problems for us, not solving problems. If Somaliland is kept in the Union then it should not be administered as one region equal to SWS or Galmudug. There will be a South and North power sharing 60/40 or it will be split into two Federal regions. The Isaaq will have their two state quota like Jubaland and Puntland. They can name Dir and Harti VP's for each state. Togdheer, Sool and Sanaag will form a region (North Central or Waqooyi dhexe), W.Galbeed and Awdal will join as one (North West) and Bari+Nugaal will be North East. This was exactly the structure in 1960.

@Mumin @convincation @Galool @Bariire

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Galmudug administration maybe should consider renaming itself Mudug as in the 1960s larger Mudug region, before Afweyne basically carved off what is now Galgaduud

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[Dharbaaxo Jin]

Didn't even need to go that far. First Amnesty link provides some info on it, Muse Bixi was an OG warlord youngster. Man was killing people before and after.

Ninyahow it's Somalia, you're either turning a blind eye or

See this is what I am talking about. You didn't even study what you posted but you ran here with it, thinking that it confirmed your preconceived notions, and didn't analyse it all.

Your own quote says that infighting in Somaliland " left hundreds of combattants dead". No one here denies that there were internal fights that left many soldiers dead, following Somaliland's independence. I've had relatives who died in those fights. The key here is that it was militias fighting other militias. It was soldiers who died in the fighting. No massacres happened whatsoever. In none of the fighting that happened between Somaliland peoples did any massacre happen or were civilians targeted.

It is likely that my sub-clan may have fought the sub-clan of other SL forum members here. Yet there isn't a single one here, including me, that will say that they were massacred, or even that their civilians were targeted.
Things like Dilla were made up years afterward, often decades after they happened. Even then the elders of the community who were there, always rubbish those stories as pure fantasy.

Muuse Biixi was an SNM Mujaahid who freed his people from your Uncle Afweyne. He has never been a warlord ever. Some think he is a bad politician and some think he is bad President, but he like every SNM Mujaahid helped save us.
You badly need him to be a warlord so that you can try to taint the Isaaq with the same brush as everyone else. Sorry to disappoint you, but we've never had one.

 

[Gantaal97]

Look man one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Everyone here will justify why their warlord was different and is actually good dude, I don't need to hear it.

Wtf bixi isn't my hero lol sure he fought against the regime but his actions when he was interior minster under cigaal first govt is why I have negative view of him learn somaliland history before spewing bs stuff

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

Barre literally killed people in my family, hell I still have relatives who hate him. I swear to god you sound like you get your info from relatives and your abtirsi from Wikipedia

You've all gotten so desensitised to your constant calcaaling about independence that you don't even think it's annoying. I like reminding you guys about that sithole in the middle of nowhere so you can feel big before I remind you you're part of Somalia.

Your specific family might be the rare exception. I have no way of verifying that. The reality is though that your clan were almost to a man and woman huge Afweyne and Fakkash supporters. That is just a historical fact. The sad reality is that other than the Ciise, all the other tribes that live in Somaliland all were eager participants and/or cheerleaders of what Afweyne was trying to do in the North.
But as we are a peoples that have lived with eachother for hundreds of years, almost immediately after the war, elders of all of these clans got together, forgave eachother and moved on.

Here is a good of example that it always you people calaacaling and bringing up these conversations. No Somalilanders here ever says that Somaliland should be independent based on what Afweyne did. Somaliland's redeclaration of its Independence had zero to do with that. In fact, the SNM's aim was to remove Afweyne so that a more democratic and representative government could rule the former Somali Republic.
Yet, in every single conversation about Somaliland, one of you Wanlaweyn crowd without fail will mention how the Landers are "crying for recognition based on their xasuuq".

 

[Dharbaaxo Jin]

Wtf bixi isn't my hero lol sure he fought against the regime but his actions when he was interior minster under cigaal first govt is why I have negative view of him learn somaliland history before spewing bs stuff

These people talk so often about subjects that they have absolutely zero knowledge of.

 

[Mckenzie]

The problem is isaaq are under Dir umbrella and your 4.5 system federal govt sees somaliland a dir state

That makes no difference to the proposition. If some are thinking Sool and Sanaag borders will be demarcated based on clan they are dreaming. It will either join a Somaliland Republic or a shared "North Central" federal region with Togdheer like the "Burao region" of 1960 or it will join Puntland completely or a one-for-one swap, Sool joins PL if Dhulbahante proven majority and Sanaag joins SL if Isaaq proven majority. Why should Dhulbahante/Warsangeli territorial demarcation make sense to a government in Xamar more than Biimaal/Gaaljecel/RX and countless other southern clans who have cross-federal regional borders? Nothing short of indho adeeg. It will take us back to 2011 when every tom, d.ick and Farah declared a hotel paper state in the hope it will stick. I would rather recognise Somaliland in a deal to keep Berbera as part of Somalia than bargain for barren regions like SSC/Awdal no offence.

This is far from neutrality mate. Somalia would never turn into many independent nations and you and I know that only Somaliland has the history to back up its claim to recognition. Mj fear losing harti and being left alone with only one other darood clan marehan, who are more integrated with Hawiye and rahanweyn, that's why they claim their borders in their constitution on a darood basis. Had they been in sool and sanaag and dhulos and warsangeli in Bari and Nugaal, then the MJ would more than likely fight tooth and nail for SL independence because they put interest over tribe and use the darood tribe for their subclans interest As for HAG, HAG simply wants to hold control over the former Somali Republic and maintain their dominance on a somali dawlad. HAG don't see Somaliland as an equal shareholder to the Somali republic and that's why you made a ridiculous suggestion of power sharing of "south and north" 60/40% and breaking Somaliland into 2 federal states. A laughable and disrespectful suggestion . That will never materialize and it's best for HAG to wake up from this power induced coma and look for their more reachable interests as a tribe. Somaliland will never settle for anything within Somalia or on equal footings with Somalia Italiana. We will maintain and keep growing and building ties with other nations

Somaliland recognition will destabilise the Horn not because of smaller regions making noise but EA countries will take sides to keep Somalis weak. Ethiopia and Kenya will support Somaliland to spite Mogadishu. I don't expect you to agree with the 60/40 deal, but i am basing this on what some of the 90s leaders proposed, Somaliland is the smaller half of the Republic, can you imagine if Djibouti leaders proposed joining Somalia on a 50/50 deal?

 

[Gantaal97]

That makes no difference to the proposition. If some are thinking Sool and Sanaag borders will be demarcated based on clan they are dreaming. It will either join a Somaliland Republic or a shared "North Central" federal region with Togdheer like the "Burao region" of 1960 or it will join Puntland completely or a one-for-one swap, Sool joins PL if Dhulbahante proven majority and Sanaag joins SL if Isaaq proven majority. Why should Dhulbahante/Warsangeli territorial demarcation make sense to a government in Xamar more than Biimaal/Gaaljecel/RX and countless other southern clans who have cross-federal regional borders? Nothing short of indho adeeg. It will take us back to 2011 when every tom, d.ick and Farah declared a hotel paper state in the hope it will stick. I would rather recognise Somaliland in a deal to keep Berbera as part of Somalia than bargain for barren regions like SSC/Awdal no offence.

Why want to keep berbera when you have kismayo Mogadishu and bossaso ports that you can develop the same way as Berbera

 

[Xanibacal bin Barqa]

Long live the Federal Republic of Somalia , from Saylac to Ras kamboni

 

[Wir]

Why want to keep berbera when you have kismayo Mogadishu and bossaso ports that you can develop the same way as Berbera

Berbera is the future of east of Africa and will hold the largest port in all of Africa. Unfortunately HAG want to keep us in this union between Somaliland and Somalia to maintain a political hegemony over a somali dawlad in east africa. Somaliland getting recognized would run laps around all east African countries.

Somaliland recognition will destabilise the Horn not because of smaller regions making noise but EA countries will take sides to keep Somalis weak. Ethiopia and Kenya will support Somaliland to spite Mogadishu. I don't expect you to agree with the 60/40 deal, but i am basing this on what some of the 90s leaders proposed, Somaliland is the smaller half of the Republic, can you imagine if Djibouti leaders proposed joining Somalia on a 50/50 deal?

Mj are scared of Somaliland being recognized because they don't want to be left alone with hawiye and the more southern inclined political savvy marehan. That is why they are pushing Ogaden to flood the Jubbas incase of the inevitable outcome of Somaliland recognition. They are terrified of harti joining Somaliland and that's why their borders are based on daroodism in their own constitution.


In 1960 the supreme Garaad of all Dhulbahante spoke on behalf of his people against the union of Somaliland and Somalia. Did his clans anti union position matter? Did anyone argue to keep eastern sool as somaliland and the rest of Somaliland to unify with Somalia, of course not. It's it's ridiculous claim. The same thing exists today. The majority of Dhulos in somaliland are pro Somaliland but even if all non isaaqs who make up ~15% of Somaliland were anti Somaliland, the majority still rules and a UN sponsored referendum will definitely prove that outcome. But the reality is that of that ~15% , only a small section are anti Somaliland and their arguments are not political but just plain cuqdad based tribalism. Hence this strange obsession with regions they are minorities in or the aggrandizement of 2 square km irrelevant border villages like buhoodle.

The majority of HAG on here are sheegato but I don't think you are so I will be direct with you mate. Isaaq and HAG don't have bad blood between each other, but there is definitely bad political blood, and that's from the HAG side. Forget the 50/50 split which is how any nation one earth would unite, we were dumb in 1960 and gave you lot 100% of everything and you divided it with darood to undermine Isaaq, Dir and the rest of the Somalis. The wanlaweyn scandal of the 1960s is proof to that where the wanlaweyn town had a higher voter outcome than all waqooyi galbeed. Our political cultures are to different to unite and that's why hawiye choose to break breed with darood, and darood in return use xamar to fight Isaaq, whether it was from 1969-1991 or with whatever little they could do after the state collapsed

HAG wants to own Somaliland due to fear of outcomes like you mentioned and because of the economic power Somaliland holds. If Somaliland was recognized why would we give a f*k about Ethiopia and Kenya plans to spite Somalia? The longer we are unrecognized and the longer HAG are anti Somaliland, the further apart we will be in the long run. If somaliland gets recognized by the rest of the world while xamar is anti, then you've gambled with the potential of a good Somali country that could help Somalia as a whole. HAG need to reassess their reasoning because everyone can see that Somaliland is unavoidable and it's only a matter of time.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

These dumb threads should be trashed. Sool sanaag and cayn are regions of Somaliland that belong to eastern sub sub sub clans of habar yoonis and habar jeclo, with some darood minorities living in a few districts. If you are this 2014 UNFPA landheer tribe and economic superpower that you claim online then stfu and come take the land by force and stop making videos, vlogs, threads, YT vids, every single day calaacal about iidoor and Somaliland. The reality is you're small, impoverished and weak and you're not in a position of power to wager anything mate and it's more likely that Somaliland economically controls all the way to mudug and hiiraan in the coming years just like it is about to economically control all of Somali Ethiopia. No amount of darod calaacal will stop Somaliland but it is entertaining

I would rather wait. No need to rush.

HAG follows neutrality in the northern conflict because if Somaliland is recognised it will have a domino effect on the region which creates problems for us, not solving problems. If Somaliland is kept in the Union then it should not be administered as one region equal to SWS or Galmudug. There will be a South and North power sharing 60/40 or it will be split into two Federal regions. The Isaaq will have their two state quota like Jubaland and Puntland. They can name Dir and Harti VP's for each state. Togdheer, Sool and Sanaag will form a region (North Central or Waqooyi dhexe), W.Galbeed and Awdal will join as one (North West) and Bari+Nugaal will be North East. This was exactly the structure in 1960.

@Mumin @convincation @Galool @Bariire

The problem remains shifting demographics. As of 2014, 7 years ago, a federal state made up of Sool/Sanaag and Togdheer would have had an Isaaq majority of about 54%, and a Harti minority of 46%. As of today, given the difference in fertility, such a federal state would be majority Harti.

This is what happens when you wait for 30 years thinking that your share of the population will remin the same in 2021 as it was in 1991. The ground you are playing on changes from under you.

 

[Yukon_Niner]

See this is what I am talking about. You didn't even study what you posted but you ran here with it, thinking that it confirmed your preconceived notions, and didn't analyse it all.

Your own quote says that infighting in Somaliland " left hundreds of combattants dead". No one here denies that there were internal fights that left many soldiers dead, following Somaliland's independence. I've had relatives who died in those fights. The key here is that it was militias fighting other militias. It was soldiers who died in the fighting. No massacres happened whatsoever. In none of the fighting that happened between Somaliland peoples did any massacre happen or were civilians targeted.

It is likely that my sub-clan may have fought the sub-clan of other SL forum members here. Yet there isn't a single one here, including me, that will say that they were massacred, or even that their civilians were targeted.
Things like Dilla were made up years afterward, often decades after they happened. Even then the elders of the community who were there, always rubbish those stories as pure fantasy.

Muuse Biixi was an SNM Mujaahid who freed his people from your Uncle Afweyne. He has never been a warlord ever. Some think he is a bad politician and some think he is bad President, but he like every SNM Mujaahid helped save us.
You badly need him to be a warlord so that you can try to taint the Isaaq with the same brush as everyone else. Sorry to disappoint you, but we've never had one.

The Dilla massacres weren't real/ they're exaggerated, muse bixi ain't a warlord and I'm just trying to taint the your qabils name. Like clockwork wallahi. I couldn't give a shit about your bastardised lineages where you all claim to be from your dhegcas grandaddies. Look kid I've heard this all before, crimes were committed why even deny it? Barre was a murderous c*nt and every fucker who came after him was a murderous c*nt. There is no good in that cursed place.

It's why I have some level of respect for the southies here, they have no problem admitting their militiamen murdered some random cadcads they looted. At the very least they'll be honest with you.