Woke women

[anonimo]

The issue is that previously, actually talented and intelligent candidates who were obviously an asset were simply not considered due to their ethnic background. Having quotas seems fine, if the candidates meet all the requirements.

The idea that white men are not getting jobs because of this is a myth. The opposite is still true that you, a Somali man regardless as to how brilliant of a fit you are for a role are still much more likely to lose out to a white man. Obviously, that's changing and that is a good thing.

The solution is not a quota system but an anonymous meritocratic recruitment mechanism. It is doable!

 

[Apollo]

It is a price we do pay, however if people in society are recognizing this and our host countries actually want to change this issue, then why would you an ethnic minority man have issues with it?
This opening of opportunities actually benefit them in the long run. The NHS in the UK is still standing due to the high % of ethnic minority doctors and nurses. They are at the forefront and the UK would not be benefiting if they still kept their racist policies in place.

It is impossible to change it. Humans evolved for tens of thousands of years under tribal conditions and have innate homophily. The effects those quotas have are minimal at best and cause much political divisiveness. I much rather have zero preferential hiring so people never question whether a POC in a position of power got there through affirmative action.

Lastly, I sincerely question whether racism is even a dominant factor in Western job markets since East Asians who are clearly not white and yet do well in Western job markets. The only issue they have is the bamboo ceiling of not being promoted to upper management but this could be due to their poor social skills.

 

[Angelina]

The solution is not a quota system but an anonymous meritocratic recruitment mechanism. It is doable!

That actually sounds like a better solution.

 

[anonimo]

That actually sounds like a better solution.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Why should an Cadaan or a man lose out on a job they are perfectly qualified for because some positions have been set side for ethnic minorities or women? It is not egalitarian, will cause social discord and contribute towards extremist thought.

 

[Angelina]

It is impossible to change it. Humans evolved for tens of thousands of years under tribal conditions and have innate homophily. The effects those quotas have are minimal at best and cause much political divisiveness. I much rather have zero preferential hiring so people never question whether a POC in a position of power got there through affirmative action.

Lastly, I sincerely question whether racism is even a dominant factor in Western job markets since East Asians who are clearly not white and yet do well in Western job markets. The only issue they have is the bamboo ceiling of not being promoted to upper management but this could be due to their poor social skills.

For Asians, I doubt it has anything to do with their social skills, especially if they're first and second gen as they would have taken on a lot of the norms of Western societies. The fact of the matter is as you've highlighted, humans are tribal and white owned companies are going to feel a lot more at ease with someone from a similar background as themselves being in upper management positions. Secondly, a lot of those positions are based on 'who you know, rather than what you know' therefore, an upper class white man who attended the same boarding schools and is of the same social class as his boss will fare better.

 

[Angelina]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Why should an Cadaan or a man lose out on a job they are perfectly qualified for because some positions have been set side for ethnic minorities or women? It is not egalitarian, will cause social discord and contribute towards extremist thought.

They're not losing out though in reality. This is definitely far right talking points. They are still the majority in most well paying positions.

 

[anonimo]

They're not losing out though in reality. This is definitely far right talking points. They are still the majority in most well paying positions.

You are wrong walaal. If one person loses out then it is injustice. Like I said, 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Apollo hit the nail on the coffin, the world is not ideal, you cannot expect to live as a minority in another country and expect to have privileges not afforded to the majority.

The only fair system I can think of is anonymous recruitment methods. Anything else is Cadaalad Daro!

Nonetheless, nepotism and cronyism will always exist. Tis is the nature of many men to get a leg up through corruption of one form or the other.

Truth be told, we Muslims are waiting on borrowed time. Those that think ahead are looking for exit plans. Easier said than done though when you start a family.

 

[Angelina]

You are wrong walaal. If one person loses out then it is injustice. Like I said, 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Apollo hit the nail on the coffin, the world is not ideal, you cannot expect to live as a minority in another country and expect to have privileges not afforded to the majority.

The only fair system I can think of is anonymous recruitment methods. Anything else is Cadaalad Daro!

Talking about discrimination against cadaans when you as a ethnic minority are still not afforded the same privileges in the majority of top companies is insane. I'm not denying that the system you thought of is a better way, but you cannot be giving policies that benefit upper class cadaans the green light by simply saying the world 'is not ideal' and then complain about quotas.

 

[Bluefire]

By the end of this century (2090s) I think Eastern Europe will have a higher standard of living than Western Europe because woke-ism will be long term destructive (e.g. not hiring qualified white male engineers and preferring to hire a POC woman instead). Western Europe is recreating Brazil in slow motion.

Nah long term eastern Europe isn't looking rosy.

Mainly because of declining birth rates and lack of migrants.Poland is 40 million today and will half in population by 2100.

They are also hit with the double whammy of all of their citizens being able to move to better EU nations.

Bulgaria for example has 2/3 of the population it had in the 90s.

 

[anonimo]

Talking about discrimination against cadaans when you as a ethnic minority are still not afforded the same privileges in the majority of top companies is insane. I'm not denying that the system you thought of is a better way, but you cannot be giving policies that benefit upper class cadaans the green light by simply saying the world 'is not ideal' and then complain about quotas.

I do not approve of injustice being meted out on another underserving human being. A working class Cadaan will be worse off under a quota system. The upper class ones you mention will always find a loophole because they pull the strings.

Is it not selfish and hypocritical to ask that a fellow disadvantaged Cadaan working class guy should suffer because ethnic minorities are given a pass?

 

[Angelina]

I do not approve of injustice being meted out on another underserving human being. A working class Cadaan will be worse off under a quota system. The upper class ones you mention will always find a loophole because they pull the strings.

Is it not selfish and hypocritical to ask that a fellow disadvantaged Cadaan working class guy should suffer because ethnic minorities are given a pass?

The bit in bold. You've just reminded me of something. Its a bit off topic though. White people will always be looked after more so than ethnic minorities and it isn't something i'm complaining about as that is to be expected. I'll give you an example. A few years ago, there was a national outrage that white working class boys had the worst GCSE grades in the country. Governments were thinking of policies, doing inquiries as to how such a thing could have happened. Previously, it was children of ethnic minorities, mostly Afro-Caribbean boys. They were afforded no such outrage, inquiries ect, in fact it was seen as the norm and teachers were found to mark down black boys due to these statistics which became a stereotype.

My point is, cadaans don't need you to advocate for them. They are in their country and are in a position of privilege, so YOU as a Somali man look silly when you deem government legislations about equal hiring as 'wokism' gone mad.

 

[Apollo]

Nah long term eastern Europe isn't looking rosy.

Mainly because of declining birth rates and lack of migrants.Poland is 40 million today and will half in population by 2100.

They are also hit with the double whammy of all of their citizens being able to move to better EU nations.

Bulgaria for example has 2/3 of the population it had in the 90s.

Yeah they got big issues, but the living standard gaps are getting smaller and smaller with each decade, especially in countries like Czechia, Slovenia, and Estonia. Eventually Poland and Hungary will follow and the prosperity will continue to move Eastward.

I think once the prosperity gap becomes minimal, perhaps by mid-century they will leave the EU (lmao, likely being kicked out).

 

[anonimo]

The bit in bold. You've just reminded me of something. Its a bit of topic though. White people will always be looked after more so than ethnic minorities and it isn't something i'm complaining about as that is to be expected. I'll give you an example. A few years ago, there was a national outrage that white working class boys had the worst GCSE grades. Governments were thinking of policies, doing inquiries as to how such a thing could have happened. Previously, it was children of ethnic minorities, mostly Afro-Caribbean boys. They were afforded no such outrage, inquiries ect, in fact it was seen as the norm and teachers were found to mark down black boys due to these statistics which became a stereotype.

My point is, cadaans don't need you to advocate for them. They are in their country and are in a position of privilege, so YOU as a Somali man look silly when you deem government legislations about equal hiring as 'wokism' gone mad.

My personal conscience will often override the inherent bias in me. There is right and wrong Walaal. What you are advocating for is not Xaaq and there is no way in hell you can deny that.

You often speak with religious fervour in this forum, how does what you are advocating chime with our religious beliefs that promote justice etc.? Does it tell us to advocate for Xaaq Daro even when we are transgressed against?

 

[Angelina]

My personal conscience will often override the inherent bias in me. There is right and wrong Walaal. What you are advocating for is not Xaaq and there is no way in hell you can deny that.

You often speak with religious fervour in this forum, how does what you are advocating chime with our religious beliefs that promote justice etc.? Does it tell us to advocate for Xaaq Daro even when we are transgressed against?

Where have I promoted Xaaq daro?

Re- read my post walal. I think you didn't understand my point.

 

[anonimo]

Yeah they got big issues, but the living standard gaps are getting smaller and smaller with each decade, especially in countries like Czechia, Slovenia, and Estonia. Eventually Poland and Hungary will follow and the prosperity will continue to move Eastward.

I think once the prosperity gap becomes minimal, perhaps by mid-century they will leave the EU (lmao, likely being kicked out).

Looking at their voting patterns bro, it appears there is already an ideological split in their population. When the oldies die out and the population shrinks as has been the trend, I reckon they will mirror Western Europeans more than they do now.

Their only saving grace is policies like Orban's which encourage population growth as the ones taking up government subsidies for larger families are traditionalists.

 

[anonimo]

Where have I promoted Xaaq daro?

Re- read my post walal. I think you didn't understand my point.

By campaigning for a quota system which favours ethnic minorities at the expense of working class cadaans etc. You are not blind to the fact that not all Cadaans benefit from current hiring policies in professional jobs and these same Cadaans will also suffer in a quota system. How is not Xaaq Daro to call for a quota system which will disadvantage them?

 

[Angelina]

By campaigning for a quota system which favours ethnic minorities at the expense of working class cadaans etc. You are not blind to the fact that not all Cadaans benefit from current hiring policies in professional jobs and these same Cadaans will also suffer in a quota system? How is not Xaaq Daro to call for a quota system which will disadvantage them.

I told you the story about the outrage about GCSE grades of white working class boys for a reason.
The outrage displayed by the government about white working class boy's grades should be an indication that this country will not allow their native citizens to lose out against ethnic minorities. Black children have the highest levels at primary level, but were getting the lowest GCSE's, there were no such questioning nor national front page newspapers.

I've said that your idea is better, but my point is, in the current state of things White working class people are not at a disadvantage due to ethnic minorities and if they were the governent would make sure to assess the situation. So as the education system has shown cadaans even the working class benefit from hiring practices compared to ethnic minorities. You on the otherhand have no such privileges.

Get it?

 

[anonimo]

I told you the story about the outrage about GCSE grades of white working class boys for a reason.
The outrage displayed by the government about white working class boy's grades should be an indication that this country will not allow their native citizens to lose out against ethnic minorities. Black children have the highest levels at primary level, but were getting the lowest GCSE's, there were no such questioning nor national front page newspapers.

I've said that your idea is better, but my point is, in the current state of things White working class people are not at a disadvantage due to ethnic minorities and if they were the governent would make sure to assess the situation. You on the otherhand have no such privileges.

Get it?

I get you are where you are coming from but you do not appear to get the moral argument I am making.

Ethnic job quotas will adversely affect one section of the Cadaans more than others? Agree?

My conscience does not allow me to accept a system that disadvantages one man over the other whereas you advocate for a system which favours ethnic minorities but will also have ramifications for Cadaans lower down the socio-economic ladder. How is that fair?

Just because the system ain't fair to me does not mean I have to favour a system which will be unfair to another man!

Anyway, it is their country walaal, do not fool yourself to believe that it will ever be equally just to ethnic minorities that visibly and culturally stand out, Muslims etc., especially when scarcity becomes more common. This period of economic stability is just a lull before a storm.

Have an exit plan or go native like the East Asians, Cultural/Ex Muslims and Hindus who are marrying out and assimilating.

 

[Angelina]

I get you are where you are coming from but you do not appear to get the moral argument I am making.

Ethnic job quotas will adversely affect one section of the Cadaans more than others? Agree?

My conscience does not allow me to accept a system that disadvantages one man over the other whereas you advocate for a system which favours ethnic minorities but will also have ramifications for Cadaans lower down the socio-economic ladder. How is that fair?

Just because the system ain't fair to me does not mean I have to favour a system which will be unfair to another man!

My whole point is, there is no disadvantages of cadaans due to ethnic minorities. Any disadvantages they face is due to the upper classes.

The moment they do, understand that as actual natives, the government, journalists and orgs will get involved and change any policy that puts non natives above them. I used the education system as an example as the narrative is clear: it's fine for white working class kids to fail in relation to white middle/upper classes, but they should never fall behind the madows and other groups.

You need to understand that this attitude obviously extends towards to employment as well, so though I do understand and agree with your moral objections, cadaans aren't falling behind because the government would simply not allow it.

 

[anonimo]

My whole point is, there is no disadvantages of cadaans due to ethnic minorities. Any disadvantages they face is due to the upper classes.

The moment they do, understand that as actual natives, the government, journalists and orgs will get involved and change and any policy that puts non natives above them. I used the education situation as an example as the narrative is clear: it's fine for white working class kids to fail in relation to white middle/upper classes, but they should never fall behind the madows and other groups. You need to understand that this attitude obviously extends towards to employment as well, so why I do understand your moral objections, cadaans aren't falling behind because this, as the government would simply not allow it.

My moral objections relate to your first paragraph. You argue that their disadvantages are caused by the upper class. However, if the government were to implement a quota system, unlikely considering the argument you made in the second paragraph, it would disadvantage Cadaan working class people because they will fall behind ethnic minorities and upper class Cadaans in the queue. You on the other hand, state that we should not care about them if we are put first, their own should own should be looking after them, worry about yourself only. Isn't that morally questionable? Do you get my Xaaq Daro statement now?