Who are the Natufians?

Discussion in 'Anthropology & Genetics' started by HIGH PRIESTESS, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. Apollo

    Apollo Mudane Apollow Staff Member Moderator

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    I think haplogroup T came from prehistoric Iran (pre-Indo-European).

    Haplogroup J came from the Caucasus/Black Sea region.

    Only E1b1b1 is truly native to North Africa, the Horn, and possibly pre-Neolithic Levant.
     
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  2. HIGH PRIESTESS

    HIGH PRIESTESS

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    That settles it then. We Wuz Ancient Aryan and Shieettt :hillarybiz:
     
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  3. anonimo

    anonimo

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    No one knows how ancient LT folk looked like or where exactly in Asia T originated from. We will know more once LT Adna samples become available. However, the ancient T-L208 samples found in Israel might have arrived via Anatolia and not Iran as they had a similar phenotype to the Blue Eyed/Light Skinned T-L208 Varda Man from the Black Sea Coast of Bulgaria.

    By the way, your average Levantine from Syria; Palestine and Lebanon are not necessarily swarthier than your average Persian. Both regions have had multiple historical migrations affecting how they look today so it is hard to ascribe a particular look to them with the limited data available.
     
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  4. anonimo

    anonimo

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    @Apollo

    Correction to the above.

    Most SNP's of the T-M184 Gold King from Varna have not been sequenced yet and was confusing him with other Varna samples.
     
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  5. MusIbr

    MusIbr

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    “Hamitic” and “Cushitic” are both constructs based on biblical myth mixed in with early anthropology and linguistics. They have no real meaning. Nilotics can’t be the “real” whatever since it’s not based on empirical observations in accordance to the aforementioned myth in the first place.
     
  6. Pastoralite

    Pastoralite high off that E-V32

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    Why’d you cover 4, 6 and 7 lol
     
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  7. Prince Abubu

    Prince Abubu

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    :hova:Fuck no. I ain't no hairy Iranian. I believe in the theory that T came from the Levant through Egypt/Red Sea. Just slightly later or at the same time as E1b1b.
     
  8. Apollo

    Apollo Mudane Apollow Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorry brah, you got to accept reality.

    I don't think they will ever find non-A/B/Es in Africa before 15,000 BCE. The T/J/Rs came after the Neolithic.

    E-M35 used to dominate the Southern Levant until the eternal Iranoids (J/Ts) conquered them.

    But don't sweat it, you are just as Cushitic as any other Somali.
     
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  9. Prince Abubu

    Prince Abubu

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    Who was in Iran before the R-haplogroup carrying Persians? The Elamites?

    Also, how did T-haplogroup get so far south as Zimbabwe so quickly?
     
  10. Apollo

    Apollo Mudane Apollow Staff Member Moderator

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    Iran around the cusp of the Neolithic was mainly J/T/L/G. And were ethnically/racially different from present-day Iranians (less admixture from the North (Central Asia/Europe). So, not as white as today's whiter-end Iranians.

    R1a/R is actually quite a strange haplogroup that may have started all the way in Eastern Central Asia or Siberia.

    About how T got to Southern Africa. Cushites discovered Southern Africa before the Bantus, but never managed to dominate it. They quickly disappeared in the Nama/Khoe population (~20%) and even affected the San hunter-gatherer population up to (~8%) IIRC. This is why E-M293 (an E-M35 sub-clade) exists there as well. T-M70 may have tagged along.

    PS. I prefer to use these mutation names like E-M293 over the a/b system as that system changes every couple of years.
     
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  11. Prince Abubu

    Prince Abubu

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    So the stuff about the Lemba people being descendants of lost Jews is made up? They're actually descendants of list Cushites?

    As for the Ancient Iranians, what would they have looked like?
     
  12. Apollo

    Apollo Mudane Apollow Staff Member Moderator

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    Nope, the Lemba have little to do with prehistoric T carrying Cushites that made an impact in Southeast Africa.

    The Lemba got their T from Yemenite Jews from Arabia who traveled to Mozambique during the Middle Ages when transcontinental trade started. A different variety not present in Cushitic populations.

    By the way, despite popular myth that Jews claim through their mothers, most Jewish populations are more Jewy on their Y-Chromosome than their maternal side.
     
  13. MusIbr

    MusIbr

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    What is the “Jewish” Haplogroup to begin with?
     
  14. Prince Abubu

    Prince Abubu

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    Btw, what does this statement mean exactly?

    "In Somalis, the Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) was estimated to be 4000–5000 years (2,500 BCE) for the haplogroup E-M78 cluster γ and 2100–2200 years (150 BCE) for Somali T-M184 bearers."
     
  15. Apollo

    Apollo Mudane Apollow Staff Member Moderator

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    They don't have their own haplogroups. Too young for that. But they have their own sub-sub-sub-sub clades.

    On yfull, whenever you see Polish/Lithuanian/Eastern European flags (sometimes also Western European flags) under J1, T1a, and E-M35(xV13/V12) subclades they are often of Jewish origin.

    Examples:
    Register to view spoiler content!

    TMRCA means ''time to most recent common ancestor''. The E ethnic Somalis converge around 4-5K years before present, while the T ethnic Somalis converge around 2.1-2.2K years before present.
     
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