What's wrong with Isis from an Islamic viewpoint?

[Mujahid]

This ayah is in the Qu'ran which makes it the literal word from Allah. Allah told Prophet Mohamed to recite this every time someone told him to convert.

But are ISIS kuffar no they are not they say the sahadah which means they are muslim.

 

[Simodi]

So, when the prophet said that women are deficient and that a woman's testimony is 1/2 that of a man, what did he mean? I know, he meant the exact opposite and that women and men are equal before god, right? Now, a real Muslim would back up the prophet and stick with this but a watered-down western Muslim will try and twist it to make it seem like the prophet was big on human rights. He also said 99% of people in hell-fire are women, which is pretty gratuitous and hideous.

First of all have you read the understanding of that Hadith? I suppose you didn't?

The hadith says: "Deficiency in mind and deficiency in Religion." The Mind = Presiding emotion over logic in situations of judgement and giving verdicts. It ISN'T saying that women are deficient in mnd, ONLY that in certain areas such as Judging in a Court of Law, women are more emotional (generally speaking). It doesnt mean they are DUMB. Thats how YOU and ISIS understands it, however if you go back to the books of the scholars of Hadith, they mention what Ive just mentioned. Go and refer back to a book called Fathul Bari by Ibn Hajr and Commentary of An Sahih Muslim by An Nawawi (too bad its in Arabic). Deficiency in Religion = The women who are in their menstrual cycles do NOT need to Pray or Fast. Easy huh?

He never said 99% of women were in Hell Fire, that came from your pocket. Dont lie, I know all these Hadiths.

About the Hadith of the Women in Hell Fire, it is classified by the SCHOLARS as a AHAD hadith. AHAD hadith means that it is not to be taken in matters of Theology and Belief, the only hadiths you can take in matters pertaining to BELIEF is Mutawatir hadiths which means that it was Narrated by such a large number of people that it is IMPOSSIBLE to classify it as un-authentic. Refer back to the book called: Mustasfa fi 'Ilm al Usool (In Arabic, bummer). Also read, Burhan by al Juwayni, it will clarify for someone like you the diffrences between hadith categorisations and which ones can be acted upon and which ones cant.


Anything else?

 

[Simodi]

Who says they are not legitimate? You and others say they are not legitimate but they have a good case from an Islamic viewpoint. That's right: you can't call them gaal.

I've already proved why your wrong.


So far everything you've said is utter nonsense. Forgive me for my words. But it's true. Your primary references are probably most likely anti-Islamic in nature. I've so far quoted from over 10 different sources, you only have a few verses of the Qur'an and a few Hadiths taken out of its context. I've explained everything in detail, yet you haven't made ONE coherent point so far.

 

[Mujahid]

Who says they are not legitimate? You and others say they are not legitimate but they have a good case from an Islamic viewpoint. That's right: you can't call them gaal.

Uluma and students of knowledge
1)They don't follow the criteria of a khilafah.
2)They want the war near dabiq to happen and consider themselves as the true khilafah
3)They make takfeer on muslim people who don't follow them.
4)They mujahideen who are fight for Allah sake and not media sake.
5)ISIS fight for media and want to be recoginsed.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

First of all have you read the understanding of that Hadith? I suppose you didn't?

The hadith says: "Deficiency in mind and deficiency in Religion." The Mind = Presiding emotion over logic in situations of judgement and giving verdicts. It ISN'T saying that women are deficient in mnd, ONLY that in certain areas such as Judging in a Court of Law, women are more emotional (generally speaking). It doesnt mean they are DUMB. Thats how YOU and ISIS understands it, however if you go back to the books of the scholars of Hadith, they mention what Ive just mentioned. Go and refer back to a book called Fathul Bari by Ibn Hajr and Commentary of An Sahih Muslim by An Nawawi (too bad its in Arabic). Deficiency in Religion = The women who are in their menstrual cycles do NOT need to Pray or Fast. Easy huh?

He never said 99% of women were in Hell Fire, that came from your pocket. Dont lie, I know all these Hadiths.

About the Hadith of the Women in Hell Fire, it is classified by the SCHOLARS as a AHAD hadith. AHAD hadith means that it is not to be taken in matters of Theology and Belief, the only hadiths you can take in matters pertaining to BELIEF is Mutawatir hadiths which means that it was Narrated by such a large number of people that it is IMPOSSIBLE to classify it as un-authentic. Refer back to the book called: Mustasfa fi 'Ilm al Usool (In Arabic, bummer). Also read, Burhan by al Juwayni, it will clarify for someone like you the diffrences between hadith categorisations and which ones can be acted upon and which ones cant.


Anything else?

I still think you're trying to bend and twist things to fit your worldview. So "deficient in mind" just means emotional and the hadith about women in hellfire is not to be taken seriously? Get real. @Mujahid has a more mainstream Islamic interpretation.

 

[Mujahid]

I've already proved why your wrong.


So far everything you've said is utter nonsense. Forgive me for my words. But it's true. Your primary references are probably most likely anti-Islamic in nature. I've so far quoted from over 10 different sources, you only have a few verses of the Qur'an and a few Hadiths taken out of its context. I've explained everything in detail, yet you haven't made ONE coherent point so far.

Akhi you are right you are right. But don't go to far

 

[Mujahid]

I still think you're trying to bend and twist things to fit your worldview. So "deficient in mind" just means emotional and the hadith about women in hellfire is not to be taken seriously? Get real. @Mujahid has a more mainstream Islamic interpretation.

It is not mainstream it is classical evidence

 

[Simodi]

I still think you're trying to bend and twist things to fit your worldview. So "deficient in mind" just means emotional and the hadith about women in hellfire is not to be taken seriously? Get real. @Mujahid has a more mainstream Islamic interpretation.

Thats what happens when you lose a debate, you start saying stupid things like: 'I still think your trying to bend and twist things.'

I've quoted books that are the most RENOWNED books in all Islamic scholarship.

Sxb, go back and do some homework. You clearly need to brush up on whatever little knowledge you have. .

DUDE, either you quote from the classical Islamic works or get the hell outta here. Your making stupid statements with no evidence such as: 'Mujahid has a more mainstream interpretation.' According to whom? Ad to which authority? Yours?

Keep failing.

 

[ThreeTwentyOne]

But are ISIS kuffar no they are not they say the sahadah which means they are muslim.

There are rules that must be followed daily (5 pillars of islam if you have forgotten) when it comes to being a Muslim. Anyone can say the shahadah and claim they are Muslim and be over with it. But remember Allah knows what your thinking. You cannot escape the judgment from God, the one that knows what your intentions are. They are not Muslims simply because they do not follow the words from Allah.

There was an undercover ISIS member who watched other members of ISIS and said that none of them had a kitaab in any of the places they lived. ISIS is a cult recruiting those that are vulnerable and using the as martyrs for destruction, where in the Quran does it say to do that? Same goes for Al-shabab. If they are Muslims, why are they killing other Muslims in record numbers? They've destroyed their home countries and taken over parts of Somalia for power. Our attention should not be on other innocent Muslims who are living honest lives but that very attention should be put on those who are harming others using our women for their disgusting pleasures and killing innocents because they can.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

I've already proved why your wrong.


So far everything you've said is utter nonsense. Forgive me for my words. But it's true. Your primary references are probably most likely anti-Islamic in nature. I've so far quoted from over 10 different sources, you only have a few verses of the Qur'an and a few Hadiths taken out of its context. I've explained everything in detail, yet you haven't made ONE coherent point so far.

You are comical. You managed to tell me that
a) The Quran and hadith are like a book on surgery and shouldn't be read by just anyone
b) That what's clearly laid out in the Quran and hadith is actually not clearly laid out
c) That I must be reading anti-Muslim sources for proposing obvious things (that the Quran is clear and can be followed as is)

By the way, do you think that's how an average Muslim in Pakistan sees Islam? That it's a book on surgery and that killing apostates actually means don't kill apostates? You are among a handful of people that twist and turn Islam so that it either fits a 21st century world view or that it's a surgery book and can't be read by just anyone. Muslims read the Quran and follow what it says. Period.

 

[Mujahid]

There are rules that must be followed daily (5 pillars of islam if you have forgotten) when it comes to being a Muslim. Anyone can say the shahadah and claim they are Muslim and be over with it. But remember Allah knows what your thinking. You cannot escape the judgment from God, the one that knows what your intentions are. They are not Muslims simply because they do not follow the words from Allah.

There was an undercover ISIS member who watched other members of ISIS and said that none of them had a kitaab in any of the places they lived. ISIS is a cult recruiting those that are vulnerable and using the as martyrs for destruction, where in the Quran does it say to do that? Same goes for Al-shabab. If they are Muslims, why are they killing other Muslims in record numbers? They've destroyed their home countries and taken over parts of Somalia for power. Our attention should not be on other innocent Muslims who are living honest lives but that very attention should be put on those who are harming others using our women for their disgusting pleasures and killing innocents because they can.

They follow all pillar of Islam and all of iman which makes them muslim.

 

[ThreeTwentyOne]

yet you haven't made ONE coherent point so far.

Sadly when it comes to some people, valid points that debunk their narrative are not valid enough to change how they feel about a certain group regardless, that is the harsh truth in the world we live in today.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Thats what happens when you lose a debate, you start saying stupid things like: 'I still think your trying to bend and twist things.'

I've quoted books that are the most RENOWNED books in all Islamic scholarship.

Sxb, go back and do some homework. You clearly need to brush up on whatever little knowledge you have. .

DUDE, either you quote from the classical Islamic works or get the hell outta here. Your making stupid statements with no evidence such as: 'Mujahid has a more mainstream interpretation.' According to whom? Ad to which authority? Yours?

Keep failing.

Saudi Arabia, the centre of Islam interprets Islam as is, not to fit a 21st century world view. When they say that a woman needs a male guardian to leave the house; that a woman can't drive; that non-Muslims are not permitted to enter; that apostates are to be beheaded; they have a salafi interpretation of Islam.

Salafists are trying to emulate the Sunnah of the prophet as closely as possible. There's nothing wrong this unless you have an agenda to make Islam more appealing. Let me guess, they're wrong because they have the wrong interpretation.

 

[Simodi]

You are comical. You managed to tell me that
a) The Quran and hadith are like a book on surgery and shouldn't be read by just anyone
b) That what's clearly laid out in the Quran and hadith is actually not clearly laid out
c) That I must be reading anti-Muslim sources for proposing obvious things (that the Quran is clear and can be followed as is)

By the way, do you think that's how an average Muslim in Pakistan sees Islam? That it's a book on surgery and that killing apostates actually means don't kill apostates? You are among a handful of people that twist and turn Islam so that it either fits a 21st century world view or that it's a surgery book and can't be read by just anyone. Muslims read the Quran and follow what it says. Period.

All this time, I've realised I'm talking to a freaking fool, wasn't it you who wanted to have a discussion about Islam according to the SCRIPTURE? Should I quote your first post on this thread?

Whatever I've said I've backed up with the recognised Islamic sources, have you?

Since when was the discussion about how people practise Islam? Trying to deflect, I see. Nice try. There are MORE homicides, rapes in most Western countries than in Pakistan. That should tell you something. Should I bring statistics?

How did I twist anything when I quoted from the main Islamic books on Theology, Jurisprudence and Classical understanding of scholars?




Everyone sees that you are a loser. I dare you to bring somethng concrete. Lets deal with it. Come on

 

[Mujahid]

Saudi Arabia, the centre of Islam interprets Islam as is, not to fit a 21st century world view. When they say that a woman needs a male guardian to leave the house; that a woman can't drive; that non-Muslims are not permitted to enter; that apostates are to be beheaded; they have a salafi interpretation of Islam.



Salafists are trying to emulate the Sunnah of the prophet as closely as possible. There's nothing wrong this unless you have an agenda to make Islam more appealing. Let me guess, they're wrong because they have the wrong interpretation.

Women are allowed to drive in some circumstances.

APOSTATES DO DESERVE BEHEADING JF THEY DON'T SAY THE SAHADAH.

They are permitted execpt the madinah and mecca

 

[Axmed Xaji]

All this time, I've realised I'm talking to a freaking fool, wasn't it you who wanted to have a discussion about Islam according to the SCRIPTURE? Should I quote your first post on this thread?

Whatever I've said I've backed up with the recognised Islamic sources, have you?

Since when was the discussion about how people practise Islam? Trying to deflect, I see. Nice try. There are MORE homicides, rapes in most Western countries than in Pakistan. That should tell you something. Should I bring statistics?

How did I twist anything when I quoted from the main Islamic books on Theology, Jurisprudence and Classical understanding of scholars?




Everyone sees that you are a loser. I dare you to bring somethng concrete. Lets deal with it. Come on

The discussion was about scripture but how people act on that scripture is more important. I agree that those sources are legitimate. I'm just saying you are among a handful of people that think reading the Quran as is is risky. How people act when they read scripture is what motivated the thread in the first place. I'm pissed that people are burned alive in Iraq and Syria, that there is hadith and Quran saying to "show harshness to unbelievers and hypocrites", and that you managed to say that's NOT what is meant (even though you brought legitimate sources). My point is even if ISIS has taken incredibly clear commands out of context, it's VERY EASY to take them out of context.

 

[Simodi]

Saudi Arabia, the centre of Islam interprets Islam as is, not to fit a 21st century world view. When they say that a woman needs a male guardian to leave the house; that a woman can't drive; that non-Muslims are not permitted to enter; that apostates are to be beheaded; they have a salafi interpretation of Islam.

Salafists are trying to emulate the Sunnah of the prophet as closely as possible. There's nothing wrong this unless you have an agenda to make Islam more appealing. Let me guess, they're wrong because they have the wrong interpretation.

Wrong again. Aren't you tired of being wrong?

Saudi Arabia was established in 1932. Since when did they become the centre of Islamic interpretation? The country, perhaps, the regime's brand of Islam, no. The only reason why they have so much legitimacy is because they occupy Makkah and Madinah whilst the native Sufi Ashraf population are sidelined, in prison and are persecuted.

Do you even know the origins of Salafism?

Salafism is less than 5% of the Muslims today. The only reason why theyre so influential is because of petro-dollars. Nothing more. Despite that fact, over 95% of Muslims subscribe to the Ash'ari theology of Sunnism.

Your an idiot

 

[Simodi]

The discussion was about scripture but how people act on that scripture is more important. I agree that those sources are legitimate. I'm just saying you are among a handful of people that think reading the Quran as is is risky. How people act when they read scripture is what motivated the thread in the first place. I'm pissed that people are burned alive in Iraq and Syria, that there is hadith and Quran saying to "show harshness to unbelievers and hypocrites", and that you managed to completely whitewash it.

Then shall we act upon the action of famous Atheists, Christians and other groups on their actions?



Seriously, shall we?

Shall I quote to you some of the most famous inhumane acts done by people who subscribe to Atheism? Or what abut Christianity?

Haha!

 

[ThreeTwentyOne]

Women are allowed to drive in some circumstances.

APOSTATES DO DESERVE BEHEADING JF THEY DON'T SAY THE SAHADAH.

They are permitted execpt the madinah and mecca

What the flying f*ck is wrong with you? You need to be imprisoned for good.

 

[Mujahid]

What the flying f*ck is wrong with you? You need to be imprisoned for good.

Don't swear do I ever swear.