What's wrong with Isis from an Islamic viewpoint?

[Axmed Xaji]

What the flying f*ck is wrong with you? You need to be imprisoned for good.

Are you Muslim? He stated something that

Well, this is MORE accurate:

No Muslim country. Same for the last few years, despite this being 2014.

Despite the fact that Pakistan is almost civil war levels. They didnt make it on the top ten. Pakistan is certainly an anomaly for any country, simply because its not stable. Bring a stable Muslim country like Turkey or Malaysia or even Saudi Arabia.



Top ten countries with Highest rape incidents in 2017:

1. South Africa
2. Botswana
3. Lesotho
4. Swaziland
5. Bermuda
6. Sweden
7. Suriname
8. Costa Rica
9. Nicaragua
10. Grenada

Not one Muslim country.
http://www.skynewspoint.com/top-10-countries-with-highest-rape-crime-rate-in-2017/

This doesn't account for the hundreds of thousands of people murdered by ISIS in Iraq and Syria and across the ME. In one incident last year Boko Haram murdered 2,000 people in one weekend. Are those not homicides? What part of murdering other people is not a homicide?

 

[embarassing]

They're not easily justifiable in Islam they're easily justifiable by certain schools of thought/scholars and yes some Hadith.

It's true that some Hadith say these things are acceptable but it does not in the Quran. It's clear Allah swt allows people to defend themselves but not to be the aggressor, and even if the aggressor inclines towards peace Muslims must too.

I find that ISIS and those types of groups seem to actively search for the harshest Hadith interpretation. So if one Hadith says a sahabi burnt someone alive for a crime they'll do it but ignore the other sahaba opinion condemning it.

So no ISIS isn't justified by Islam in the things they do, I don't believe so. But I guess to some people Hadith and any rando scholar comes before Allah swt word.

 

[Lord Flacko]

Sahih Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " This, combined with rabid jihadists on this forum, is why I can't just enjoy and live my life.

Nigga cry me a river who the f*ck is making you not able to enjoy and live your life? Nobody here knew or cared about who you were until you came here and started spewing shit while calling all muslims either terrorists or apostates.

Ain't nobody ruined your life.

 

[embarassing]

There are some hadiths that speak of some Muslims of that time apostating and the Muslims didn't kill them nor did the Hadith indicate they wanted to.
Some say that rule was made because some of the quraish would announce they had embraced Islam only with the intention to leave and delegitimize in the eyes of the people. A deterrent. Idk tho but if you accept that Hadith you should accept those ones or you're picking and choosing like the people you accuse.

Also can you provide a Hadith of the prophet sws killing anyone for apostatizing? @Axmed Xaji

 

[Simodi]

There are some hadiths that speak of some Muslims of that time apostating and the Muslims didn't kill them nor did the Hadith indicate they wanted to.
Some say that rule was made because some of the quraish would announce they had embraced Islam only with the intention to leave and delegitimize in the eyes of the people. A deterrent. Idk tho but if you accept that Hadith you should accept those ones or you're picking and choosing like the people you accuse.

Also can you provide a Hadith of the prophet sws killing anyone for apostatizing? @Axmed Xaji

He will quote the Hadith that says: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him."

The Hadith cannot be used in a court of Law because of its ambiguous nature.

Scholars have debated as to the exact and intended meaning. Some say: "Those change their Religion and make war against the state by taking up arms". The evidence for this being the case is the verse of the Qur'an nmin Surah Al Maidah.
Other scholars say: 'It means whoever commits treason, because the Arabic says:من بدل دينه , the word Deen doesn't necessarily mean Islam, but any way of life. Which would translate to anyone who changes whatever they are currently believing in, execute which is obviously nonsensical. That which the scholars have deduced after reconciling between all of the Narrations including the numerous verses in the Qur'an that speak about whosever wants to believe let him believe in Surah Al Kahf , this is more authentic. It's a principal that's says: Any Hadith which goes against a principal in the Qur'an, the Quran outweighs it.

It's not as simple as quoting a hadith out of context.

 

[embarassing]

He will quote the Hadith that says: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him."

The Hadith cannot be used in a court of Law because of its ambiguous nature.

Scholars have debated as to the exact and intended meaning. Some say: "Those change their Religion and make war against the state by taking up arms". The evidence for this being the case is the verse of the Qur'an nmin Surah Al Maidah.
Other scholars say: 'It means whoever commits treason, because the Arabic says:من بدل دينه , the word Deen doesn't necessarily mean Islam, but any way of life. Which would translate to anyone who changes whatever they are currently believing in, execute which is obviously nonsensical. That which the scholars have deduced after reconciling between all of the Narrations including the numerous verses in the Qur'an that speak about whosever wants to believe let him believe in Surah Al Kahf , this is more authentic. It's a principal that's says: Any Hadith which goes against a principal in the Qur'an, the Quran outweighs it.

It's not as simple as quoting a hadith out of context.

He could quote that but that's not what I asked him for.

Thanks

 

[Genie]

The Prophet (SAW) said: 'Anybody who goes over to the Quraish side, that is Allah taking us from their hands." Treaty of al Hudaybiyah. Book: Ibn Ishaq Seerah.


The Qur'an:

"Whomsoever wishes to believe, let him believe, anybody who wishes to disbelieve, let him disbelieve." Surah al Kahf.

"There is NO compulsion in Religion." Surah al Baqarah (Medinan Surah)

Exactly regardless of ANY hadith even if its Sahih if it contradicts the Qur'an (word of God!) its out of the window.

 

[Genie]

Whats wrong with ISIS from an islamic point of view ?

Pretty much everything.

There is no Islamic basis for ISIS. ISIS is purely a creation of Western imperialism as well as the CIA's operation cyclone. Kathir and Taymiyyah in no way back up ISIS, you've clearly never read their work and just throw out those names as if it constitutes as an argument relying on wishful thinking. As I stated before with actual citations.

to @Axmed Xaji

Actual Islamic scholars have already refuted this. The type of people who poorly attempt to claim that ISIS is Islamic just happen to be the very people who have zero credentials in Islam and mostly made up of new atheist con artist cultists.

lettertobaghdadi .com



It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas , and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith .

It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language.

It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.

It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.

It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.

It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.

It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers.

Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.

It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or she) openly declares disbelief.

It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.

It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture.

The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus.

It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.

It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.

It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights.

It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud ) without following the correct procedures that ensure justice and mercy.

It is forbidden in Islam to torture people.

It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead.

It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God ﷻ.

It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of Prophets and Companions.

Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray.

It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims.

Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam.

After the death of the Prophet ﷺ , Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language

ISIS scholars have mastery of the Arabic language (the Arab ones)

 

[Axmed Xaji]

It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.

It's all about interpretation. What you call oversimplification might be viewed by others as strict, to the letter following of sharia

 

[Axmed Xaji]

It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.

The fundamentals of Islam are in the Quran and hadith. If it says to throw gays off rooftops or that Jews and Christians must pay jizya, there is no room to differ. There is no "scholar" that believes in equality regardless of religion (and if there is, he can't claim to be Muslim)

 

[Axmed Xaji]

It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.

You pulled this out of your ass. Who forbade it? The commands in the Quran and hadith are for all time, otherwise why would they be there for Muslims to follow?

 

[Axmed Xaji]

It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.

Not true. Muhammad personally ordered the murder of 600 men and boys simply for belonging to a clan that opposed him. Furthermore, innocent is narrowly defined as Muslim.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.

Have you heard of fard Kifaya? Of course there's offensive jihad and the prophet explicitly ordered it. Since you reject hadith (can't be Muslim and reject hadith), here are Quran verses that talk about offensive jihad

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."


Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." This doesn't say to fight those that come to you but to leave your house.

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Doesn't seem very defensive

Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."

 

[Axmed Xaji]

It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.

Really?! You believe this? In a society where Sharia is fully implemented, Christian/jewish places of worship cannot be built and old ones cannot be repaired. In addition, Jews and Christians must pay jizya tax, declaring their inferiority to Muslims. They also have to wear a marker/badge or black belt to identify themselves in public. They are not allowed to build structures that are taller than those of Muslims. If a Muslim kills a Christian or Jew, the blood money is 1/2 that of a Muslim.

Today, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, Iraq and many other countries follow this to the letter. In Saudi, churches cannot be built at all and leaving Islam is punishable by death. In Sudan, a pregnant woman was sentenced to death for renouncing her religion. Study ffs

 

[Axmed Xaji]

The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus.

The prophet owned slaves and traded them to free Muslim slaves. At no point did the prophet forbid the owning of a human being by another. You're making things up.

 

[Genie]

ISIS scholars have mastery of the Arabic language (the Arab ones)

Just cause you speak modern day arab doesn;t mean you have any grasp or understanding of old Arabic which is quiet different much like modern english is different than say shakespearean english , even so although i speak english it doesn't mean i'am qualified to become say a university professor in english.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."

Qur'an (3:83) - "Are they seeking a religion other than Allah's, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?"

 

[Axmed Xaji]

It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.

Women's "rights" are not recognized in Islam. The Quran and hadiths just say women MUST obey their husbands and that shouldn't leave the house or express themselves without permission. They're not allowed to seek a living on their own or divorce an abusive husband.

 

[Genie]

i'll answer all these in one big chunk so bare with me