What's wrong with Isis from an Islamic viewpoint?

[Simodi]

Again, I understand that it's all about interpretation. I'm just troubled that a plain interpretation (without checking with scholars) leads to ISIS and people like them. Also, can you not see that scholars have a political agenda (to defend Islam and make it acceptable to people like me?)

Plain interpretation is known as Dhahirism. There was a famous school of theology and jurisprudence known as the Literalist School a few centuries ago. It died out. The only small semblance remaining is what we see today as the Salafist school which is over funded by Saudi Arabia.

However, there is much symbolism and metaphorical exegesis in the Qur'an.

Allah Himself says in the Qur'an:

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. (Surah 3:7).

Focus on the underlined.

In this verse it CLEARLY states that a plain interpretation is not warranted.

I can see why it might be confusing, but you will only be MORE confused if you depend on anti Islamic material. Go and repent brother and come back to the fold. It's better for you.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Nope. your wrong again. There are schools, authorities, institutions and scholarly bodies that determine whether someone has reached a level of scholarship or not. These are the paramount features. An example would be the Muslim World League Scholars, Fiqh Council of Europe etc.

There is not ONE scholarly body that has endorsed Abu Bakr al Baghdadi. Only you

These councils are political institutions whose primary goal is to make Islam look better to non-Muslims. They are people who live in the 21st century trying to fit 21st century norms. The Fiqh council of Europe, for example, would NEVER speak glowingly about jihad even though the prophet said being killed in jihad is the best deed. The fiq council of Europe also wouldn't speak about the acceptable age of marriage for fear of being chastised as xyz.

I can't believe you are arguing that someone cannot just pick up a Quran, read what it clearly says and act on it. So if I'm stuck on an Island with a Quran and authentic hadith, I better not read it because I'm guaranteed to misunderstand it? What?!

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Plain interpretation is known as Dhahirism. There was a famous school of theology and jurisprudence known as the Literalist School a few centuries ago. It died out. The only small semblance remaining is what we see today as the Salafist school which is over funded by Saudi Arabia.

However, there is much symbolism and metaphorical exegesis in the Qur'an.

Allah Himself says in the Qur'an:

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. (Surah 3:7).

Focus on the underlined.

In this verse it CLEARLY states that a plain interpretation is not warranted.

I can see why it might be confusing, but you will only be MORE confused if you depend on anti Islamic material. Go and repent brother and come back to the fold. It's better for you.

That's the first time I've seen a Quran verse saying to not take it literally. This should be used more often to discourage people like ISIS but the problem is that the vast majority of Muslims don't follow this either. They have the same interpretation as ISIS (and me, I guess) but just can't get themselves to be barbaric and inhumane like ISIS.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

I know all the verses you want to quote to justify your position. If you quote it, I will easily refute it God Willing. So if you do, thats fine.

Everything you've said in this segment is pure interpretation (of ISIS mainly), the dynamics of Nifaq in Islam is greater than that. Pick up a classical book and put down Frontpagemag and other non Muslim websites that messed with your miskiin head. Go ahead and quote those verses so we can deal with them one by one

So, when the prophet said that women are deficient and that a woman's testimony is 1/2 that of a man, what did he mean? I know, he meant the exact opposite and that women and men are equal before god, right? Now, a real Muslim would back up the prophet and stick with this but a watered-down western Muslim will try and twist it to make it seem like the prophet was big on human rights. He also said 99% of people in hell-fire are women, which is pretty gratuitous and hideous.

 

[Mujahid]

IS do something that the khawarij do it is called takfeer. They call other apostates and kill muslim mujahids.

We can't consider them gaal because in the hadith of the prophet pecae be upon him. It is in riyad as saliheen.

The prophet said "do not judge a man who says there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger. If he or she says this it haram for you to take his wealth and his blood. If he does a sin only Allah will deal with him in the day of judgement".

It is haram for you to kill IS, but the issue is IS thinks everyone is Kuffar if they live in the west they are not part of them.

I remember a saying from Ali may allah be pleased with him talking about the khawarij They are our brother who left the way". Ali fought the Khawarij if they fought him first, because remembered about that hadith.

Fact: Ali may allah ge pleased with him narrated the most hadith over any Sahabi.

 

[Mujahid]

They claim (reasonably from an Islamic standpoint) that these Muslims are hypocrites. They kill Shias who they call rafida and are commanded to slaughter. The Sunnis they kill are government-related people who make alliances with the kufars (prohibited and punishable by death). These crimes are horrendous but they do have something to fall back on. If you want to the Quran and hadith passages about making friends with the unbelievers, let me know.

I believe the rafidah are Kuffar. They take Ali as god and make God weaker. They take Fatimah as a goddess. May allah forgive me.

 

[ThreeTwentyOne]

Literally the second page in the Quran is completely ignored. One must think if some people are willing to read the very thing they are questioning or let the media cloud your judgment.

Surah Al-Kafirun

Common sense and the judgment of right and wrong is not exclusive to anyone and their religion. To say or even think that what ISIS is doing is Islamic is wrong. You are indirectly grouping those who follow the same religion with Allah in their hearts, that follow the religion because they BELIEVE in Allah who have never done a heinous crime to be subjected to the same hate as people do for ISIS. Don't be an idiot, you were a Muslim once too, we are not with ISIS, if we were we won't take up leisure time in this forum if our life goal was to murder someone daily.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

I believe the rafidah are Kuffar. They take Ali as god and make God weaker. They take Fatimah as a goddess. May allah forgive me.

According to @Simodi, you have the wrong interpretation because you didn't check with the Ullema. The shia DO place too much importance on Ali and ARE considered Rafidah. I would say that the Shia are full of shit and should stop slashing each other with knives and that you should stop calling them stupid names like Rafidah and murdering them.

 

[Simodi]

These councils are political institutions whose primary goal is to make Islam look better to non-Muslims. They are people who live in the 21st century trying to fit 21st century norms. The Fiqh council of Europe, for example, would NEVER speak glowingly about jihad even though the prophet said being killed in jihad is the best deed. The fiq council of Europe also wouldn't speak about the acceptable age of marriage for fear of being chastised as xyz.

I can't believe you are arguing that someone cannot just pick up a Quran, read what it clearly says and act on it. So if I'm stuck on an Island with a Quran and authentic hadith, I better not read it because I'm guaranteed to misunderstand it? What?!

Nope. Your wrong again. Logically speaking, if that was the case, they would also deem permissible alcohol, homosexuality and all of the other acts which are considered impermissible. If their main goal was to make Islam better, then why do they constantly issue edicts that are considered to be normal according to Liberals? Your statement has NO logic.

Fiqh Council speaks about Jihad, however its not the distorted Jihad that both you and ISIS believe in. Fail, again.

Yep. Nobody can just pick up the Qur'an, the exact same way nobody could pick up a Book on surgery and start doing an eye operation. This is getting a bit embarassing, now.

The Fiqh Council of Europe are based in a non Muslim country. The legal age for marriage is different in many countries. About a hundred years ago you could get married to a 10 year old girl in the State of Delaware. The correct Islamic opinion is that sexual intercourse is only permissible when the girl reaches her menstrual cycle.

Yep, you do not have the qualifications required to interpret it and issue verdicts. You could however read it for passtime and to learn its Recitation etc. However, deriving rulings from the text is a speciality.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Literally the second page in the Quran is completely ignored. One must think if some people are willing to read the very thing they are questioning or let the media cloud your judgment.

Surah Al-Kafirun

Common sense and the judgment of right and wrong is not exclusive to anyone and their religion. To say or even think that what ISIS is doing is Islamic is wrong. You are indirectly grouping those who follow the same religion with Allah in their hearts, that follow the religion because they BELIEVE in Allah who have never done a heinous crime to be subjected to the same hate as people do for ISIS. Don't be an idiot, you were a Muslim once too, we are not with ISIS, if we were we won't take up leisure time in this forum if our life goal was to murder someone daily.

I never said you were with ISIS at all. I understand that you interpret the same religion ISIS interprets to live a product and peaceful life. I'm troubled that ISIS could take your religion, do hideous things and be justified (at least on the surface) in doing so. That's the basis of my question. No one is saying you're in favor of ISIS (with the exception of users like @Iftin and @Mujahid

 

[Simodi]

That's the first time I've seen a Quran verse saying to not take it literally. This should be used more often to discourage people like ISIS but the problem is that the vast majority of Muslims don't follow this either. They have the same interpretation as ISIS (and me, I guess) but just can't get themselves to be barbaric and inhumane like ISIS.

Yep, learn more.

 

[Mujahid]

Literally the second page in the Quran is completely ignored. One must think if some people are willing to read the very thing they are questioning or let the media cloud your judgment.

Surah Al-Kafirun

Common sense and the judgment of right and wrong is not exclusive to anyone and their religion. To say or even think that what ISIS is doing is Islamic is wrong. You are indirectly grouping those who follow the same religion with Allah in their hearts, that follow the religion because they BELIEVE in Allah who have never done a heinous crime to be subjected to the same hate as people do for ISIS. Don't be an idiot, you were a Muslim once too, we are not with ISIS, if we were we won't take up leisure time in this forum if our life goal was to murder someone daily.

In surah al kafirun is a Makki surah. If you understand the tafsiir it will be different than what you are saying. This surah applies to the musrikeen of Qureash going up to the prophet saying "let worship you God for one and our gods the next day".

This ayah does not belong to the muslim but infact the kuffar.

 

[Mujahid]

According to @Simodi, you have the wrong interpretation because you didn't check with the Ullema. The shia DO place too much importance on Ali and ARE considered Rafidah. I would say that the Shia are full of shit and should stop slashing each other with knives and that you should stop calling them stupid names like Rafidah and murdering them.

Do you know the rafidah kiled Hussein in the massacre of karabala. The shia were a policital group then became religious group and leading it to become a religion.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Yep. Nobody can just pick up the Qur'an, the exact same way nobody could pick up a Book on surgery and start doing an eye operation. This is getting a bit embarassing, now.

Again, that's at the heart of the problem. No one worships surgery and has to pray to surgery five times a day. Surgery is a specialty. It is specific, techniques are variable and can be modified and tweeked for optimum result. The Quran is (according to Muslims) the truth about the universe and is meant to be understood by anybody. Its NOT similar to a book on surgery.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

In surah al kafirun is a Makki surah. If you understand the tafsiir it will be different than what you are saying. This surah applies to the musrikeen of Qureash going up to the prophet saying "let worship you God for one and our gods the next day".

This ayah does not belong to the muslim but infact the kuffar.

He is desperate to make sense of it through a 21st century western lens. He cannot get himself to believe that peace and tolerance IS NOT an Islamic virtue. Belief in Allah and his messenger and doing what they said to do is the goal of Islam.

 

[ThreeTwentyOne]

In surah al kafirun is a Makki surah. If you understand the tafsiir it will be different than what you are saying. This surah applies to the musrikeen of Qureash going up to the prophet saying "let worship you God for one and our gods the next day".

This ayah does not belong to the muslim but infact the kuffar.

This ayah is in the Qu'ran which makes it the literal word from Allah. Allah told Prophet Mohamed to recite this every time someone told him to convert.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

Do you know the rafidah kiled Hussein in the massacre of karabala. The shia were a policital group then became religious group and leading it to become a religion.

And???? Did you know Hussein from Karbala?

 

[Mujahid]

He is desperate to make sense of it through a 21st century western lens. He cannot get himself to believe that peace and tolerance IS NOT an Islamic virtue. Belief in Allah and his messenger and doing what they said to do is the goal of Islam.

We know iskamic state is not legitmate. But we can't call them gaal.

 

[Mujahid]

And???? Did you know Hussein from Karbala?

No, he was from madinah. If read the history of Hussein, he was Abandoned by the shia, he died. This was near karbala.

 

[Axmed Xaji]

We know iskamic state is not legitmate. But we can't call them gaal.

Who says they are not legitimate? You and others say they are not legitimate but they have a good case from an Islamic viewpoint. That's right: you can't call them gaal.