What's the worst sin somebody can commit?

[AussieHustler]

I’m not an atheist im just saying from an atheistic world view there are no problems with those things and morals really don’t exist or matter if your an atheist, it’s about survival of the fittest and once you die it all didn’t matter anyways because you end up at the same level as everyone else as a heap of dust and skeletons

@Tukraq

Somalia: is a Muslim country where death, destruction and human suffering is synonymous with.

Sweden: An atheist country that offered asylum to millions of Muslims who murdered, raped and starved their children to death.

What atheist morals and values? It’s superior to those of Muslims.

 

[psyche]

You can be gaal without being gay..a homo is far worser than a gaal

Homosexuality is not as bad as being a gaal.

 

[whitehartlane]

Look I'm just look at this from a unbiased perspective.

Sex is the joining of genitals. A simple definition

In rape the victims are FORCED to undergo sexual intercourse

So therefore rape is a form of sex.

I'm a very methodical man and I don't let political correctness interfere with my opinions.

Unless you prove my above statement wrong I will not retract my statement

You're wasting your time by explaining the obvious over and over again to an extremely dumb person..

 

[Tukraq]

@Tukraq

Somalia: is a Muslim country where death, destruction and human suffering is synonymous with.

Sweden: An atheist country that offered asylum to millions of Muslims who murdered, raped and starved their children to death.

What atheist morals and values? It’s superior to those of Muslims.

So what’s wrong with death according to atheists? What’s wrong with destruction? What’s good about asylum? Dose it all matter in the big picture according to an atheist? Is there a such thing as good or bad? To an athisets it would be no, and nothing wrong with death it’s enevitable anyways, prolonging life doesn’t even make sense for atheists anyways too because it didn’t have any purpose anyways? You keep acting like Sweden is better than somalia when according to Atheism they both don’t matter as nothing does because it’s all up to chance and Mother Nature anyways

 

[whitehartlane]

Homosexuality is not as bad as being a gaal.

Depends on the sub-definition of a gaal

Lets say a Ayaan hirsi Ali type of a gaal as an example is the worst form of gaalnimo but then again some old China lady in some remote region is not bad as those that practice qowlumood

 

[AussieHustler]

Homosexuality is not as bad as being a gaal.

Whimsical

U sheeg.

Gay Imam hopes to open Australia's first LGBTI-friendly mosque



Australia's only openly gay Imam is pushing for the country's first LGBTI-friendly mosque that would also act as a safe house and counselling centre.

Nur Warsame said he is dealing with an "avalanche of misery" among LGBTI Muslims who have no support services or safe spaces.

Imam Nur is a devout Muslim who once led one of Melbourne's largest mosques. When he came out as gay in 2010 the Muslim clergy severed ties with him, despite his rare credentials as a hafiz — someone who has memorised the Koran.

He has since become an increasingly vocal advocate for the rights of LGBTI Muslims, despite receiving ongoing death threats.

"You are talking about an ideology that believes your repentance is to be killed as a gay person," he said.

He said he gets daily calls for help from young Muslims struggling with fierce and, at times, violent resistance from their family and community.

"One of the most essential things that our young people need is safe, affordable housing. For young people to transition safely they cannot be in the environment that is causing them the trauma," he said.

"I had seven people housed at my one-bedroom apartment ... because it was life or death for them. They had to leave [their family home] that day, then and there," he said.

Imam Nur is currently in talks with philanthropists in a bid to secure a building in Melbourne's inner city. He has been working closely with Victoria Police to ensure the mosque and safe house is in a secure location.

He said the building he would like to move into has a roof shaped "like the dome of a mosque".

"Inside, that circle thing looks like a mihrab, which is where the Imam stands to pray," he said.

"It is central, it is very close to a lot of the services I recommend people to: Prahran Market Clinic, which is a medical centre for LGBT people, the hospital is just up the road, the police station is also down the road."

'They are trying to beat the gay out of you'
Sam Hawli, 27, came out to his father during an anxiety attack.

"He said, 'Are you on drugs? I can help you, why are you shaking?' I put my trust in his words and I said to him, 'I'm gay'," Mr Hawli said.

"That was the beginning of something I thought would never hit my life. He stopped talking to me that day and that's when my life changed in a very dramatic, negative way."

He said he experienced repeated violence and was ostracised by members of western Sydney's Muslim community.

"I was physically beaten by certain extended family members," he said.

"That really was the most depressing time of life, when you are physically hurt by your family and when they are trying to beat the gay out of you."

Nurul Huda, president of Sydney Queer Muslims, said most of the group's members live double lives.

"One particular member is so scared that his parents will track him down to this story and will kill him ... because they have tried before," she said.

"I've seen the scars on his body from the beating. Are you saying that he's the one going to Hell?"

She said despite this conflict and resistance, many LGBTI Muslims are still devoted to their faith.

"We've got members who pray five times a day, go to Friday prayers and are preparing to go to Hajj, and all of this with the anxiety that somebody can jump them, they will be publicly shamed or hurt," she said.

Community leader calls for LGBTI training for Imams
Community leader Kuranda Seyit believes conservative Imams need training on how to deal with LGBTI family conflict and violence.

"Firstly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking by your principles. As a Muslim, my religion teaches me that homosexuality is not permissible and we stand by that," he said.

"If somebody is threatening to kill that person or to beat them, it's just as bad.

"I think you can't justify a sin with a sin, we just need to be more pragmatic and open-minded in the way we deal with this."

Mr Seyit is the former secretary of the Islamic Council of Victoria and now runs the counselling hotline Islamicare for Muslims.

"I think the Muslim community has to take some kind of responsibility, or leadership, and has to take responsibility for all facets of our community and not ignore them or sideline them," he said.

"There are a number of Imams who would be under-resourced or under-skilled to deal with this kind of issue, and that's where we could support them with counselling courses."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01...ustralias-first-lgbti-friendly-mosque/9310952

 

[psyche]

Depends on the sub-definition of a gaal

Lets say a Ayaan hirsi Ali type of a gaal as an example is the worst form of gaalnimo but then again some old China lady in some remote region is not bad as those that practice qowlumood

Not true. I remember that if you hear someone utter "there is no god but Allah" and don't accept it then you are a kaffir that's worse than the people of lut.

But on the off chance that you have never learnt Islam, then you are right

 

[Kratos]

Aren’t you an atheist, why are rapists murders or child abusers bad to you? Morals are baloney to atheist since you and that murder both end up dead anyways and just turn to dust according to your beliefs and there is no such thing as good or bad, you can’t take a moral high ground with an ideology that has no moral basis

What’s wrong with killed rape and starved children from an atheistic point of view or what’s good about peace? Both are just processes of Mother Nature and part of the survival of the fittest. In the end of the day both the guy in Sweden and the guy in Somalia will die so living in war or peace didn’t matter in the end result according to atheists you turn into dust anyways and theirs basically no moral compass or concept of good or bad because how could there be? Without a divine being

Atheism is not an ideology. In its broadest sense, it can be defined as the lack of belief in the existence of a god/gods. You can be an atheist and believe all sorts of things including an after-life or re-incarnation. You can't say "according to you atheists, you turn into dust anyways" because atheism does not necessarily entail that world view. You've assumed numerous things. Likewise, atheists don't all subscribe to the same moral values. There are many secular moral frameworks in existence and the majority of the most prosperous and egalitarian societies today mainly rely on those philosophies as opposed to religious ones. Many of them are not new either, some have been around for thousands of years. Ancient Far Eastern moral philosophy in particular (i.e. Confucianism, Buddhism) do not require the existence of an absolute personal being.

The main difference between religious (mainly talking about Abrahamic faiths) moral frameworks and secular morality is that religious morality is absolute and totalitarian. They are justified on the basis of divine revelation as opposed to reason therefore the only way they can be true is if your religion is true. If you can't prove your beliefs to be true then your moral philosophy is meaningless. The burden of proof is upon you but the evidence is not in your favour...

 

[whitehartlane]

@Tukraq

Somalia: is a Muslim country where death, destruction and human suffering is synonymous with.

Sweden: An atheist country that offered asylum to millions of Muslims who murdered, raped and starved their children to death.

What atheist morals and values? It’s superior to those of Muslims.

Is Somalia governed under an islam law? No..

Then you can not use islam as a cause of Somali suffering..


However you can argue tht the Swedes culture of humanity is superior to the Somali.. but then again a lot of it can be explained due to the economic status of the 2 people..

Wealthy people are more humble, cheat and lie less and are more educated therefor less ignorant.

 

[psyche]

Whimsical

U sheeg.

Gay Imam hopes to open Australia's first LGBTI-friendly mosque

View attachment 67486

Australia's only openly gay Imam is pushing for the country's first LGBTI-friendly mosque that would also act as a safe house and counselling centre.

Nur Warsame said he is dealing with an "avalanche of misery" among LGBTI Muslims who have no support services or safe spaces.

Imam Nur is a devout Muslim who once led one of Melbourne's largest mosques. When he came out as gay in 2010 the Muslim clergy severed ties with him, despite his rare credentials as a hafiz — someone who has memorised the Koran.

He has since become an increasingly vocal advocate for the rights of LGBTI Muslims, despite receiving ongoing death threats.

"You are talking about an ideology that believes your repentance is to be killed as a gay person," he said.

He said he gets daily calls for help from young Muslims struggling with fierce and, at times, violent resistance from their family and community.

"One of the most essential things that our young people need is safe, affordable housing. For young people to transition safely they cannot be in the environment that is causing them the trauma," he said.

"I had seven people housed at my one-bedroom apartment ... because it was life or death for them. They had to leave [their family home] that day, then and there," he said.

Imam Nur is currently in talks with philanthropists in a bid to secure a building in Melbourne's inner city. He has been working closely with Victoria Police to ensure the mosque and safe house is in a secure location.

He said the building he would like to move into has a roof shaped "like the dome of a mosque".

"Inside, that circle thing looks like a mihrab, which is where the Imam stands to pray," he said.

"It is central, it is very close to a lot of the services I recommend people to: Prahran Market Clinic, which is a medical centre for LGBT people, the hospital is just up the road, the police station is also down the road."

'They are trying to beat the gay out of you'
Sam Hawli, 27, came out to his father during an anxiety attack.

"He said, 'Are you on drugs? I can help you, why are you shaking?' I put my trust in his words and I said to him, 'I'm gay'," Mr Hawli said.

"That was the beginning of something I thought would never hit my life. He stopped talking to me that day and that's when my life changed in a very dramatic, negative way."

He said he experienced repeated violence and was ostracised by members of western Sydney's Muslim community.

"I was physically beaten by certain extended family members," he said.

"That really was the most depressing time of life, when you are physically hurt by your family and when they are trying to beat the gay out of you."

Nurul Huda, president of Sydney Queer Muslims, said most of the group's members live double lives.

"One particular member is so scared that his parents will track him down to this story and will kill him ... because they have tried before," she said.

"I've seen the scars on his body from the beating. Are you saying that he's the one going to Hell?"

She said despite this conflict and resistance, many LGBTI Muslims are still devoted to their faith.

"We've got members who pray five times a day, go to Friday prayers and are preparing to go to Hajj, and all of this with the anxiety that somebody can jump them, they will be publicly shamed or hurt," she said.

Community leader calls for LGBTI training for Imams
Community leader Kuranda Seyit believes conservative Imams need training on how to deal with LGBTI family conflict and violence.

"Firstly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking by your principles. As a Muslim, my religion teaches me that homosexuality is not permissible and we stand by that," he said.

"If somebody is threatening to kill that person or to beat them, it's just as bad.

"I think you can't justify a sin with a sin, we just need to be more pragmatic and open-minded in the way we deal with this."

Mr Seyit is the former secretary of the Islamic Council of Victoria and now runs the counselling hotline Islamicare for Muslims.

"I think the Muslim community has to take some kind of responsibility, or leadership, and has to take responsibility for all facets of our community and not ignore them or sideline them," he said.

"There are a number of Imams who would be under-resourced or under-skilled to deal with this kind of issue, and that's where we could support them with counselling courses."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01...ustralias-first-lgbti-friendly-mosque/9310952

Being gay is NOT AN ISSUE.

Some of the things people say about gays on this site is unacceptable.

From my interpretation gays are like all of us, they have desires. Allah tests everyone in different ways, so he gave people the temptation of same-sex attraction to see if they succumb to their desires. Those who remind on the straight path and didn't indulge in the action will be rewarded in the hereafter.

So I believe it is acceptable to be gay as long as you don't indulge in the action.

This sheikh is a heretic and should not being taken seriously

 

[AussieHustler]

Is Somalia governed under an islam law? No..

Then you can not use islam as a cause of Somali suffering..


However you can argue tht the Swedes culture of humanity is superior to the Somali.. but then again a lot of it can be explained due to the economic status of the 2 people..

Wealthy people are more humble, cheat and lie less and are more educated therefor less ignorant.

@whitehartlane

Does it matter if it is governed by Islamic Laws? Are “morals and values” derived from the rule of the land or are they embedded within the individual? Saudi Arabia is ruled by Islamic Laws, so what? @Tukraq argued that Muslims do have better “morals and values” than non-Muslims. Do they?

 

[Tukraq]

Atheism is not an ideology. In its broadest sense, it can be defined as the lack of belief in the existence of a god/gods. You can be an atheist and believe all sorts of things including an after-life or re-incarnation. You can't say "according to you atheists, you turn into dust anyways" because atheism does not necessarily entail that world view. You've assumed numerous of things. Likewise, atheists don't all subscribe to the same moral values. There are many secular moral frameworks in existence and the majority of the most prosperous and egalitarian societies rely on those philosophies as opposed to religious ones. Many of them are not new either, some have been around for thousands of years. Ancient Far Eastern moral philosophy in particular (i.e. Confucianism, Buddhism) do not require the existence of an absolute personal being.

The main difference between religious (mainly talking about Abrahamic faiths) moral frameworks and secular morality is that religious morality is absolute and totalitarian. They are justified on the basis of divine revelation as opposed to reason therefore the only way they can be true is if your religious belief is true. If you can't prove your beliefs to be true then your moral philosophy is meaningless. The burden of proof is on you but the evidence is not in your favour...

Sahib atheist don’t believe in the after life:siilaanyolaugh: your talking about letsism or possibly agnosticism, athiesism is strictly against religion as make believe and using the same logic morals are make believe human constructs that don’t matter, athiesim actually believe and make the claim religions don’t exist so the burden of proof is on them to back that claim, don’t conflate it with the agnostic people who say they don’t know

 

[whitehartlane]

Not true. I remember that if you hear someone utter "there is no god but Allah" and don't accept it then you are a kaffir that's worse than the people of lut.

But on the off chance that you have never learnt Islam, then you are right

Not true Allah says in so many places in the quran that he is the most merciful..


How Allah judges his creations is only beknown to Him only however from various examples we know that the good and bad DEEDS of non believers are used in the hereafter..

But those tht haven't had the opportunity to learn islam.. in London an international city with a sizeable islamic population yet so many non Muslims that aren't actually familiar with Islam due to the negativity tht surrounds islam created by men Muslim or not..

Yet these people of all races that aren't Muslim but are such righteous people..Allah is the most merciful and will not judge them using the same books as he uses when HE confronts the atheists and the s and the disbbelievers of Islam whilst having the knowledge...

 

[Tukraq]

@whitehartlane

Does it matter if it is governed by Islamic Laws? Are “morals and values” derived from the rule of the land or are they embedded within the individual? Saudi Arabia is ruled by Islamic Laws, so what? @Tukraq argued that Muslims do have better “morals and values” than non-Muslims. Do they?

I’m saying Muslims have morals and values, atheist don’t as it would be hypocritical and not aligned with their world view

 

[psyche]

Not true Allah says in so many places in the quran that he is the most merciful..


How Allah judges his creations is only beknown to Him only however from various examples we know that the good and bad DEEDS of non believers are used in the hereafter..

But those tht haven't had the opportunity to learn islam.. in London an international city with a sizeable islamic population yet so many non Muslims that aren't actually familiar with Islam due to the negativity tht surrounds islam created by men Muslim or not..

Yet these people of all races that aren't Muslim but are such righteous people..Allah is the most merciful and will not judge them using the same books as he uses when HE confronts the atheists and the s and the disbbelievers of Islam whilst having the knowledge...

Yeah I get what you mean @whitehartlane and understand that Allah knows whats the truths is in our hearts.

 

[Mercury]

Omg. No! Rape and murder are not forgivable sins. Islam states that anyone who commits any of those sins is a straight killing. You are gone. Dead. Killed.

They could repent one condition is to be truthful and never go near that sin again

Question is how can they go near that sin when they get executed

 

[AussieHustler]

I’m saying Muslims have morals and values, atheist don’t as it would be hypocritical and not aligned with their world view

@Tukraq

If they do, why did they kill, rape, destroy one another and starve children to their deaths? When they sought asylum in an atheist country, they found peace, happiness and a better future? What happened to their morals and values? Nope, the most immoral and valueless are Muslims and it’s a fact.

 

[whitehartlane]

@whitehartlane

Does it matter if it is governed by Islamic Laws? Are “morals and values” derived from the rule of the land or are they embedded within the individual? Saudi Arabia is ruled by Islamic Laws, so what? @Tukraq argued that Muslims do have better “morals and values” than non-Muslims. Do they?

Of course it does, when you are using it as an example..

You didn't compare swedes and Somalis

You compared atheists Swedes and islamic Somalis.. therefor your argument needs to hold water and look at Somalia from an Islamic governing perspective...it's non existent..

Somalia is governed by western form of law

 

[Tukraq]

@Tukraq

If they do, why did they kill, rape, destroy one another and starve children to their deaths, sought asylum in an atheist country, found peace, happiness and a better future? What happened to their morals and values? Nope, the most immoral and valueless are Muslims and it’s a fact.

You keep saying immoral but are an atheist morals are for thiests maybe you need to stop using the atheist label, from an atheist point of view there’s no such thing as good or bad, from an Islamic point of view just being an atheist country is the worst sin possible why would death be a bad thing to an atheist unless they think their going to hell reavalute your beliefs you seem to not be a real atheist, at least claim agnostic

 

[Kratos]

Sahib atheist don’t believe in the after life:siilaanyolaugh: your talking about letsism or possibly agnosticism, athiesism is strictly against religion as make believe know

No I'm talking about atheism. Atheism is not necessarily anti-religion. It depends on your definition of religion. Atheism, in its broadest sense, is the lack of belief in a god/gods. It says nothing about what a person believes in outside of that, wether it be what moral values they ascribe to or what happens after death. An atheist can technically believe in an after-life, they just usually don't.

using the same logic morals are make believe human constructs that don’t matter, athiesim actually believe and make the claim religions don’t exist so the burden of proof is on them to back that claim, don’t conflate it with the agnostic people who say they don’t know

Believing that morality is not divinely inspired does not mean they don't matter, they clearly do. You're talking about absolute morality vs relative morality. A distinction between good and bad is needed in order to have a safe and well-functioning society. The question at hand is how should we derive our morality? From god or from discussion and reason? The burden of proof is on the one who claims that our morality comes from god. You are the one who is making supernatural claims. Supernatural claims require supernatural evidence. The burden of proof has always fallen on those on your end of the ideological spectrum.