Ukraine’s Nazi Problem.

[Periplus]

Since @Omar del Sur has an allergy to consistency, I thought I’ll help him out.

Here are some definitions to revise.

Anti-imperialism doesn’t mean only when the US does it but when anyone does it.

 

[Periplus]

You are quite a fool! If you studied an ounce of Russian history and geography you would know that Russia is surrounded by icy waters with no easy access to the sea being choked off by NATO and mountainous terrain. They had to get Crimea because their economy depended it on it to gain access to the black sea, the ports of Marispol and Odessa were also critical for him.

As for NATO surrounding him, you have to remember the only straight terrain that can get you straight to the gates of Moscow easily is from the Western front, Russia is only securing her weak point as Hitler used this blitzkrieg last time to nearly capture Moscow. They have every right to that buffer zone.

And now their Black Sea access might get cut off because of their actions.

They could’ve just held onto Crimea and Donbass and none of this would’ve happened.

 

[Chase]

The African wars were due to colonial boundaries, not wars of annexation such as Ukraine.

Armenia and Azerbaijan's conflict involved Russians supporting Armenia's annexation of Nagorno Karabakh in the early 90's, the West had no part to play in this.

Israel and Palestine is all on the West, I have already highlighted how this exemplifies their imperfect world order.

The difference between the above and Ukraine is that Russia is part of establishment that enforces the current world order despite it being dominated by the West, their actions speak far louder than countries engaging in border colonial conflicts etc. This is an outright invasion of another sovereign country because their political trajectory is not to one's liking and is a return to an age of imperialism because it is being conducted by one of the World Powers.

Here's my problem with this, let's say Russia is a power hungry state that's hell bent on reclaiming Eastern Europe, their primary victims are Eastern Europeans, they are operating in their own backyard, like it or not, this is how the world operates, Ethiopia will always meddle in Somalia, the strong rule.

The West on the other hand has caused destruction via coups, imposing illegal no-fly zones, economic sanctions and outright war, from Vietnam, to Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan, South America and Africa. Russia's imperialism and its effects on the planet is 'limited' in its scope, unlike the West.

 

[Omar del Sur]

another thing that occurs to me is.... I don't think Russia taking Ukraine is really an example of colonization. it doesn't seem like it to me- at least not what is normally thought of when we say "colonization". to me- the British colonizing India, British colonizing Kenya- those are examples of colonization. but Slavs fighting Slavs? Russian seeking to retake historic Russia? that is colonization? to me that sounds like someone saying Siad Barre occupying the Ogaden is colonization. I guess it's a little different- Ukrainians do have their own language... but I don't think it's colonization in the same way as the examples I mentioned. this is slavs versus slavs. it seems to like it's something different than say Spain colonizing the Phillipines.

 

[Periplus]

Russian seeking to retake historic Russia?

We should let Spain take historic Spain, what about that?

 

[TekNiKo]

And now their Black Sea access might get cut off because of their actions.

They could’ve just held onto Crimea and Donbass and none of this would’ve happened.

Wrong again, Crimea is connected to Russia via bridge, making it extremely vulnerable to being economically decimated by mere airstrikes lol. Russia had to secure mainland Ukraine in order to avoid this threat. Now they can hold the other ports too absolutely dominating the corridor. What a genius, Trump was right!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Bridge

 

[Chase]

Yes, Russia colonised Central Asia and Islam is essentially finished there.

Instead of responding to that point, you brought out some statistics about Russia’s Muslim population when I was clearly talking about it’s colonies.

Furthermore, as I said, Putin can claim to defend Islam all he wants but he is silent when his lackeys in Central Asia use his money, influence and weapons to crack down on Islam.

I'm not following you here, so Russia wants its 'colonies' to crackdown on Muslims, but will turn a blind eye to the growing population of Muslims living in Russia?

Russian colonisation = repression of Islam
But Russia the country = Islam population is growing unimpeded

Correct?

 

[Omar del Sur]

Here's my problem with this, let's say Russia is a power hungry state that's hell bent on reclaiming Eastern Europe, their primary victims are Eastern Europeans, they are operating in their own backyard, like it or not, this is how the world operates, Ethiopia will always meddle in Somalia, the strong rule.

The West on the other hand has caused destruction via coups, imposing illegal no-fly zones, economic sanctions and outright war, from Vietnam, to Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan, South America and Africa. Russia's imperialism and its effects on the planet is 'limited' in its scope, unlike the West.

another dimension that I think gets overlooked is... what kind of imperialism are we talking about? I mean what is the impact on the people.

for example- Spanish imperialism promoted Catholicism, Mughal imperialism promoted Islam, Soviet imperialism promoted atheism.

Western imperialism aims at promoting feminism, turning kids into trannies, etc. it aims at promoting degeneracy. Russian imperialism in Eastern Europe would promote what? Socially conservative Orthodox Christianity? and then I think with some allowances for Muslims- Chechnya for example has implemented some amount of sharia. It just seems way less sinister than what the West is out to force on people. they want to turn people's kids into s and trannies.

Russia isn't perfect, I don't claim it is and they've done a lot of things I don't like. But they seem way better than the West.

 

[anonimo]

Here's my problem with this, let's say Russia is a power hungry state that's hell bent on reclaiming Eastern Europe, their primary victims are Eastern Europeans, they are operating in their own backyard, like it or not, this is how the world operates, Ethiopia will always meddle in Somalia, the strong rule.

The West on the other hand has caused destruction via coups, imposing illegal no-fly zones, economic sanctions and outright war, from Vietnam, to Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan, South America and Africa. Russia's imperialism and its effects on the planet is 'limited' in its scope, unlike the West.

I am not a defender of the West and everything they do man!

All I am arguing is that an end to the current status quo will make things even more worse and Russia's invasion of the Ukraine is just the beginning of an end unless an accommodation is reached. If Isolationist Trump comes back to power, it might be the end of the status quo anyway considering Putin's got his number, and the fact that the Orange clown recognised Morocco's annexation of the Sahara and Jerusalem so eff it all. The End Is Nigh!!!!













With this post, I am bowing out of this thread. Shit is becoming worse that those Goddamn Gender War threads. Madax Xanuun Baa I Haayo!

 

[Omar del Sur]

I'm not following you here, so Russia wants its 'colonies' to crackdown on Muslims, but will turn a blind eye to the growing population of Muslims living in Russia?

Russian colonisation = repression of Islam
But Russia the country = Islam population is growing unimpeded

Correct?

I'm with you.

I don't think the Chechens are idiots. If Russia was really so brutal against its Muslims, I don't think they'd be fighting for Russia.

Another thing is I have personally met Khabib Nurmagomedov. I was at the mosque and Khabib showed up to pray at the mosque and all of us at the mosque got to meet him. There was no announcement or publicity before or after... we were just at the mosque and then Khabib showed up. He was in the area for one of his fights.

He is a really great guy and a good, sincere Muslim. I met him, I talked to him- he is really friendly and humble. He was really nice to all of us- everyone was very excited to meet him.

And I know he is a Russian patriot as well. So if he is a great guy and a good Muslim- why would he support Russia if it was so repressive towards Muslims? And why would he go back to Russia? Why wouldn't he have just stayed in the US where I met him?

Khabib has met Putin and he knows Russia better than anyone here. I don't think Khabib would support Russia if it was so anti-Muslim. It was really inspiring for me to meet him. It really inspired me to see how this world champion- he came to our mosque and prayed just like any ordinary Muslim. It made me feel that this is the secret to being a great world champion like Khabib- praying at the mosque.

 

[Chase]

another dimension that I think gets overlooked is... what kind of imperialism are we talking about? I mean what is the impact on the people.

for example- Spanish imperialism promoted Catholicism, Mughal imperialism promoted Islam, Soviet imperialism promoted atheism.

Western imperialism aims at promoting feminism, turning kids into trannies, etc. it aims at promoting degeneracy. Russian imperialism in Eastern Europe would promote what? Socially conservative Orthodox Christianity? and then I think with some allowances for Muslims- Chechnya for example has implemented some amount of sharia. It just seems way less sinister than what the West is out to force on people. they want to turn people's kids into s and trannies.

Russia isn't perfect, I don't claim it is and they've done a lot of things I don't like. But they seem way better than the West.

Good point, we can take the HOA as an example, a habesha trying to impose his religion on a Afar, Somali or Oromo and vice versa isn't really colonisation, more like regional infighting, Europe went through that plenty, empires come and go.

Putin said

“I need to say that, as I have repeated many times before, from its beginning Russia had formed as a multiconfessional and multiethnic state. You are aware that we practice Eastern Christianity called Orthodoxy. And some theorists of religion say that Orthodoxy is in many ways closer to Islam than to Catholicism. I don’t want to evaluate how true this statement is, but in general the coexistence of these main religions was carried out in Russia for many centuries. Over the centuries we have developed a specific culture of interaction, that might be somewhat forgotten in the last few decades. We should now recall those our national roots.”

Also, I can't exactly recall it now, but I believe there's a hadith or passage in the Quran proclaiming that in the end days, Orthodox Christians & Muslims will be fighting side by side as brothers, might try finding it.

 

[kazamama]

Dude the Ukrainian president is Jewish.

Who cares what some soldiers think.

And the prime minister is Jewish too and Ukraine has the third-largest Jewish community in Europe and the fifth-largest in the world.

So this idea that Ukraine is a country full of Nazis is dumb and a pure Russian propaganda.
...

 

[Periplus]

I'm not following you here, so Russia wants its 'colonies' to crackdown on Muslims, but will turn a blind eye to the growing population of Muslims living in Russia?

Russian colonisation = repression of Islam
But Russia the country = Islam population is growing unimpeded

Correct?

You could say the same for the US.

The US has a growing Muslim population but invades Muslim-majority populations overseas.

What works abroad doesn’t necessarily work at home.

It’s a very simple concept you’ve failed to grasp.

 

[Periplus]

Wrong again, Crimea is connected to Russia via bridge, making it extremely vulnerable to being economically decimated by mere airstrikes lol. Russia had to secure mainland Ukraine in order to avoid this threat. Now they can hold the other ports too absolutely dominating the corridor. What a genius, Trump was right!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Bridge

For six years, NATO didn’t touch Crimea. If Putin kept the status quo, NATO would continue not to touch it.

Now, Crimea is moot if Turkey decides to exercise it’s control over the Bosphorus and Dardanelles by closing the Black Sea.

What is clear to nearly anyone with an elementary grip on this topic is that this invasion is not out of self-defence.

 

[Periplus]

The racists of Ukraine probably voted for the Ukrainian president because of his anti-Russia stance and ignored his Jewishness.

Actually Zelensky was predicted to be pro-Russian by some politicians.

This is because he is a native Russian speaker and is from an area considered by many to be Eastern Ukraine.

The reality is that he got elected because he was a funny guy on television that had made some good points about politics.

 

[Chase]

You could say the same for the US.

The US has a growing Muslim population but invades Muslim-majority populations overseas.

What works abroad doesn’t necessarily work at home.

It’s a very simple concept you’ve failed to grasp.

You're the one making the argument, not me, Russia hasn't officially invaded a Muslim nation since Afghanistan, that's a false equivalence. According to you Russia's goal is to colonise Eastern Europe in an attempt to bring back their Soviet glory days, you've clearly drunk the Western cool-aid.

 

[Periplus]

You're the one making the argument, not me, Russia hasn't officially invaded a Muslim nation since Afghanistan, that's a false equivalence. According to you Russia's goal is to colonise Eastern Europe in a attempt to bring back their Soviet glory days, you've clearly drunk the cool-aid.

Russia still hold control over several Muslim countries in Central Asia, all of whom crack down on Islam.

Russia has already begun to colonise a former Soviet nation, but I’m the one drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

[TekNiKo]

Russia still hold control over several Muslim countries in Central Asia, all of whom crack down on Islam.

Russia has already begun to colonise a former Soviet nation, but I’m the one drinking the Kool-Aid.

Name one country Russia invaded ? Kazakhstan? No.

 

[Chase]

@Periplus Russia will defang and destroy all Ukrainian threats and go home, I'm telling you this paranoia of Russia resurrecting the Soviet Union is unfounded and borders on hysteria.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I mean... Russia may be a military threat to Eastern Europe. China is a military threat to an island called Taiwan.

The United States is a military threat to every Muslim country on earth.

And what is even more sinister is- the US wants to threaten you specifically if you refuse to Westernize. China isn't out to destroy Islam as such- they had a crackdown on separatists. Pretty much any country would crackdown on separatist groups. Fighting a regional separatist group is a bit different than waging a global war on Islam. And Russia? They helped Assad. I'm against Assad. But I don't think Russian policy is about them being pro-Shia or pro-Alawite or whatever- they just help their allies.

So the US is satanic on a whole other level. It is really a spiritual attack- "implement the sharia and we invade you. become Westernized or else".

If you have to arrest a serial killer or a shoplifter- which is the first criminal you go after? I'm all for going after the shoplifter but first you need to go after the serial killer.

All three countries have done some criminal stuff but the US is the most criminal and most dangerous by far and obviously should be given the highest priority as a threat.

and @Periplus obviously can't argue in good faith. he promotes Western liberal ideology so of course he has to defend the West. the Western militaries fight for his ideology. this guy was for the US troops in Afghanistan and now he wants to talk about anti-imperialism. you can protest all you want but you cannot defend the US occupation of Afghanistan and have any credibility as an anti-imperialist. you cannot do that and be a real anti-imperialist.