Ukraine’s Nazi Problem.

[Chase]

I will not and have never disputed that the West, mainly the USA, have done their fair share of damage but my argument is about a Rubicon being crossed, an invasion of another country for the main purpose of annexing or partitioning it. All the Dirty Coups, economic pressure to force regime change etc. pale in comparison to what will happen if countries start to settle territorial disputes etc. through the use of force as exemplified by the Russian precedent. This is the meat of my argument in this thread.

Ethiopia/Kenya and Somalia? Biafra Nigeria? North Sudan and South Sudan? Armenia and Azerbaijan? Israel and the Golan Heights/Palestine?

Russia didn't set any precedent, most of the conflicts above either the West didn't care for, or even armed certain actors and turned a blind eye to genocide and war crimes, this moral outcry against Russia is a red herring, just more Anglo hypocrisy.

 

[Periplus]

@Jacko my main beef is with people like @Omar del Sur and @AMusee that dedicate their entire online personas to bashing the West but praise Russia and China.

AMusee is the worst tbh, he is practically Squealer from Animal Farm.

I get it if you’re anti-imperialist but bootyclapping for Russia is height of hypocrisy.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Cubans do not have brothers that are kept in concentration camps, and will not be giving the Red Carpet treatment to those that oppress their brethren.

What an effin stupid analogy.

Why do you put so much more emphasis on Muslims oppressed by China than Muslims oppressed by the US? China oppresses its Muslim minority. The US oppresses the entire Muslim world and threatens any Muslim country that refuses to Westernize and to serve US interests. China isn't forcing its culture on any Muslim country.

If you followed your logic to its ultimate conclusion, you would basically be at war with the entire world simultaneously. You would basically have to go to war with China, US, Russia, the US's allies and Russia and China's allies. You would basically have to fight the entire world.

That is not feasible or realistic. The feasible option is to take on the bigger enemy first then later you can fight China if necessary. But first you take on the bigger enemy.

 

[anonimo]

And the Palestinians? Afghans? Kashmiris? And every Muslim country in the world, all of which are threatened by the US.

The lesser of two evils is that which is better for the Muslim world as a whole.

Kashmir is oppressed by India, not the West. Nonetheless, the Brits are to blame for letting India assume control of it after partition. But their plight today is down to the Indian State. Things will not change for them because the West is no longer in power. It is stupidity to assume that China or Russia will encourage Muslim irredentism when they have Muslim minorities of their own. Another stupid example.

The West have left Afghanistan, they have Sharia today, is China still occupying Uighurs?

Palestine is definitely all on the West and Israel, will it change under the no-interference policy of Russia or China? I doubt it.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Kashmir is oppressed by India, not the West.
Palestine is definitely all on the West and Israel, will it change under the no-interference policy of Russia or China? I doubt it.

1- The West backs India
2- You even admit Russia and China have a no-interference policy and you're still taking the US-aligned stance???????

you WANT a colonial overlord ruling over you?? rather than NO colonial overlord and you do what the heck you want??

I'll even give you something just to be objective... Russia is actually more interventionist than China... but still not nearly as bad the US

 

[Chase]

Doesn’t change the fact that Russia is a colonising power that erases the religion and culture of everywhere it colonises.

Look at Central Asia, the deen is finished out there purely because of Russia.

Russia has the largest Muslim population in Europe; and according to US Department of State in 2017,[3] Muslims in Russia numbered 14 million or roughly 10% of the total population. According to a comprehensive survey conducted in 2012, Muslims were 6.5% of Russia's population.[4][5] However, the populations of two federal subjects with Islamic majorities were not surveyed due to social unrest, which together had a population of nearly 2 million, namely Chechnya and Ingushetia,[6] thus the total number of Muslims may be slightly larger. The Grand Mufti of Russia, Sheikh Rawil Gaynetdin, places the Muslim population of Russia at 25 million as of 2018.

What you're saying doesn't align with the (growing) population figure of Muslims in Russia, surely Russia would have done something by now, such as invading Chechyna and finishing them off, once and for all?

 

[Periplus]

What you're saying doesn't align with the (growing) population figure of Muslims in Russia, surely Russia would have done something by now, such as invading Chechyna and finishing them off, once and for all?

Muslim populations tend to grow after oppression.

Look at France, their Muslims are becoming more religious year on year as conditions get worse.

But let’s also look at the several Muslim majority nations that have Russian puppets and how they treat Islam.

I’ll put your line of questioning back to you: If Russia was such a defender of Islam, wouldn’t it call out the suppression of Islam in former Soviet republics it has control over??

 

[TekNiKo]

Soviet Union ceased to exist. Ukraine had as much right to keep them as Russia has to keep its weapons.

Putin resetting history is colonising half of Europe. If you’re anti-imperialism, you should be against it.

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[Periplus]

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So you support colonisation?

 

[anonimo]

Ethiopia/Kenya and Somalia? Biafra Nigeria? North Sudan and South Sudan? Armenia and Azerbaijan? Israel and the Golan Heights/Palestine?

Russia didn't set any precedent, most of the conflicts above either the West didn't care for, or even armed certain actors and turned a blind eye to genocide and war crimes, this moral outcry against Russia is a red herring, just more Anglo hypocrisy.

The African wars were due to colonial boundaries, not wars of annexation such as Ukraine.

Armenia and Azerbaijan's conflict involved Russians supporting Armenia's annexation of Nagorno Karabakh in the early 90's, the West had no part to play in this.

Israel and Palestine is all on the West, I have already highlighted how this exemplifies their imperfect world order.

The difference between the above and Ukraine is that Russia is part of establishment that enforces the current world order despite it being dominated by the West, their actions speak far louder than countries engaging in border colonial conflicts etc. This is an outright invasion of another sovereign country because their political trajectory is not to one's liking and is a return to an age of imperialism because it is being conducted by one of the World Powers.

 

[TekNiKo]

So you support colonisation?

Looking forward to a multipolar world where China and Russia will be on equal footing with US. This will provide the world with balance and no more propping up failed Africa/MENA regimes.

 

[Omar del Sur]

So you support colonisation?

says the defender of the West! and the one who was upset that the freedom fighters beat the invaders in Afghanistan when Biden pulled out last year

 

[Periplus]

Looking forward to a multipolar world where China and Russia will be on equal footing with US. This will provide the world with balance and no more propping up failed Africa/MENA regimes.

The world is already multipolar.

In fact, if the Cold War is any indication, we will be seeing more failed regimes being propped up by superpowers.

But it’s good to see you be honest and accept that you support colonisation.

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Periplus has to defend the West and the US because his Western liberal ideology is reliant on backing from the West.... people may notice- I do align more with the Russia-China side but notice I don't actually promote any Russian or Chinese ideologies

 

[anonimo]

The world is already multipolar.

In fact, if the Cold War is any indication, we will be seeing more failed regimes being propped up by superpowers.

But it’s good to see you be honest and accept that you support colonisation.

You would think people would remember History and look at how many wars were instigated by competing powers during the height of the Cold War.

 

[Chase]

Muslim populations tend to grow after oppression.

Look at France, their Muslims are becoming more religious year on year as conditions get worse.

But let’s also look at the several Muslim majority nations that have Russian puppets and how they treat Islam.

I’ll put your line of questioning back to you: If Russia was such a defender of Islam, wouldn’t it call out the suppression of Islam in former Soviet republics it has control over??

You said:

Doesn’t change the fact that Russia is a colonising power that erases the religion and culture of everywhere it colonises.

I showed you a growing population of Muslims in Russia, with some estimating at least 1/4 of Russia adhering to Islam.

I’ll put your line of questioning back to you: If Russia was such a defender of Islam, wouldn’t it call out the suppression of Islam in former Soviet republics it has control over??

 

[Periplus]

says the defender of the West! and the one who was upset that the freedom fighters beat the invaders in Afghanistan when Biden pulled out last year

I don’t like Western imperialism but that doesn’t mean I have to support Russia, China and the Taliban.

The world isn’t binary, wrong is wrong no matter who does it.

Excusing clear wrongs because it’s done by your side shows a lot about your character than mine.

 

[Periplus]

@Periplus has to defend the West and the US because his Western liberal ideology is reliant on backing from the West.... people may notice- I do align more with the Russia-China side but notice I don't actually promote any Russian or Chinese ideologies

I don’t defend the West. I am anti-Western imperialism and anti-Russia, China and Taliban.

That’s defined as consistency.

 

[Periplus]

You said:


I showed you a growing population of Muslims in Russia, with some estimating at least 1/4 of Russia adhering to Islam.


View attachment 215948

Yes, Russia colonised Central Asia and Islam is essentially finished there.

Instead of responding to that point, you brought out some statistics about Russia’s Muslim population when I was clearly talking about it’s colonies.

Furthermore, as I said, Putin can claim to defend Islam all he wants but he is silent when his lackeys in Central Asia use his money, influence and weapons to crack down on Islam.

 

[TekNiKo]

The world is already multipolar.

In fact, if the Cold War is any indication, we will be seeing more failed regimes being propped up by superpowers.

But it’s good to see you be honest and accept that you support colonisation.

You are quite a fool! If you studied an ounce of Russian history and geography you would know that Russia is surrounded by icy waters with no easy access to the sea being choked off by NATO and mountainous terrain. They had to get Crimea because their economy depended it on it to gain access to the black sea, the ports of Marispol and Odessa were also critical for him.

As for NATO surrounding him, you have to remember the only straight terrain that can get you straight to the gates of Moscow easily is from the Western front, Russia is only securing her weak point as Hitler used this blitzkrieg last time to nearly capture Moscow. They have every right to that buffer zone.