Somalis were native to Hararghe until the Oromo expansion after the weakening of Adal Sultanate.

[AfranQallo]

Guji were not originally Oromo, but their neighbors and cousins, their homeland is Girja to the southwest of Mada Walabu. Warra Dayyo were not originally Oromo either, but a related tribe who lived in Liban immediately south of the Mada Walabu.

This is kind of a matter of semantics really. By Oromo I mean from Mada Walabu and of either the Barentuma or Borana confederations, but Oromo also just means "the people" or "humanity" in many east Cushitic languages and Warday refer to themselves as Orma ("the people").

Listen, these 2 clans are Oromo.

It was at Mada Walabu were the Oromo clan elders decided they would become 2 confederations, Borana and Barentumma. Those who moved and migrated earlier where the warra Dayyu and Munjo who are today Orma.

The rest have become Barentu or Borana. You will find overlaps in all clans. There are Nooles, Jarso, Metta etc in every region. These clans I believe were once one large unit but went different ways.

The subclans of Orma are all Oromo clans. Can you tell me who they are if not Oromo? They aren’t their own ethnic group, and never have been.

 

[Marsin]

I've met plenty of oromos who speak broken somali and claims somali clans in babile town, interesting debate from Anonimo ( As always ) and afranqollo.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Listen, these 2 clans are Oromo.

It was at Mada Walabu were the Oromo clan elders decided they would become 2 confederations, Borana and Barentumma. Those who moved and migrated earlier where the warra Dayyu and Munjo who are today Orma.

The rest have become Barentu or Borana. You will find overlaps in all clans. There are Nooles, Jarso, Metta etc in every region. These clans I believe were once one large unit but went different ways.

The subclans of Orma are all Oromo clans. Can you tell me who they are if not Oromo? They aren’t their own ethnic group, and never have been.

The Oromo Gada system of assimilation was indeed very crafty and intelligent . The Somalis had processes known as sheegato or isbaheysi. That said , Somalis will have the last laugh because they have the most potent weapon also known as no pullout game . We will become the biggest sperm donors in the Horn .

 

[AfranQallo]

I do not think we are on the same page.

I am referring to the Oborra Akisho/Gurre subclan, not the defunct Barentuma subclan that goes by the Akica name. Oborra are part of Humbana as we both agreed upon. The Akica subclan referenced in Bahrey's Galla Book are a separate branch of the Oromo Barentuma equal in clan stature to the Humbana. When did they ever live in Northern Somalia like M. Hassan claims? The Somali Gurre/Akisho clan did at one point live in Northern Somalia before migrating South into present day Ethiopia, but they were not Oromo as there is no history of Oromos living on the coast of Northern Somalia! Furthermore, there was no pressure on the Gurre/Akisho to adopt a Dir identity nor were they assmilated by any Dir subclan clan so tell me what made some of them supposedly switch identities considering how powerful Oromo clans were before the Europeans and Egyptians interfered in the affairs of the Horn?

The Highland Oromos I was referring to are the ones that live in the former Damot region, didn't mention anything about the Wollo or Amhar. As for the Muslim Habashas in Harar, it is obvious that the majority who were not displaced, apart from a few Agrobba, are now Oromos. Nonetheless, I disagree with your assertion that the Jarso are 100% Oromo as it is common knowledge that they possess both Dir and Darood subclans in them. Heck it can even be argued that there is nothing like a 100% Oromo clan in East Hararghe or among other Oromo clans that expanded into the lands of other Horn ethnic groups. One thing is certain, Dir; Darood and Hawiye are well represented among the Afran Qallo.

You stated that you have Somali ancestors further down the line. If anyone should know how Somalis are ubiquitous among the Afran Qallo, it is you my friend!

Nonetheless, I am with you in your assertion that the Haraghe Area was not a Somali majority region when the Oromos expanded into it. The Harla, Afar and settled Ethio-Semites have more of a claim on parts of it than we do.

I do not think we are on the same page.

I am referring to the Oborra Akisho/Gurre subclan, not the defunct Barentuma subclan that goes by the Akica name. Oborra are part of Humbana as we both agreed upon. The Akica subclan referenced in Bahrey's Galla Book are a separate branch of the Oromo Barentuma equal in clan stature to the Humbana. When did they ever live in Northern Somalia like M. Hassan claims? The Somali Gurre/Akisho clan did at one point live in Northern Somalia before migrating South into present day Ethiopia, but they were not Oromo as there is no history of Oromos living on the coast of Northern Somalia! Furthermore, there was no pressure on the Gurre/Akisho to adopt a Dir identity nor were they assmilated by any Dir subclan clan so tell me what made some of them supposedly switch identities considering how powerful Oromo clans were before the Europeans and Egyptians interfered in the affairs of the Horn?

The Highland Oromos I was referring to are the ones that live in the former Damot region, didn't mention anything about the Wollo or Amhar. As for the Muslim Habashas in Harar, it is obvious that the majority who were not displaced, apart from a few Agrobba, are now Oromos. Nonetheless, I disagree with your assertion that the Jarso are 100% Oromo as it is common knowledge that they possess both Dir and Darood subclans in them. Heck it can even be argued that there is nothing like a 100% Oromo clan in East Hararghe or among other Oromo clans that expanded into the lands of other Horn ethnic groups. One thing is certain, Dir; Darood and Hawiye are well represented among the Afran Qallo.

You stated that you have Somali ancestors further down the line. If anyone should know how Somalis are ubiquitous among the Afran Qallo, it is you my friend!

Nonetheless, I am with you in your assertion that the Haraghe Area was not a Somali majority region when the Oromos expanded into it. The Harla, Afar and settled Ethio-Semites have more of a claim on parts of it than we do.

Here is the clan structure..

Bareentu has 5 subclans:
Karrayyu - 6 subclans
Marawa - 2 subclans
Akichu - 12 subclans
Dhumuga - 6 subclans
Humbanna - 2 subclans

The Akisho who you claim are Somali are the Akichu Aba Berhe speaks of who are no longer Oromo.

The Oborra are a subclan of Qallo, son of Humbana. They have 3 subclans of Akichu, the one under Bareentuma have 12 Subclans. These are 2 different clans. Oborra are located west of Ala and Dagga, while “Akisho” are east.

They were the first of the Oromos to move east, and first to accept Islam, and slowly became Somali.

Today yes they are Somali Dir, but not in origin. Rather through association/ cultural and language shift. Just like others have become Oromo.

I agree with everything you say, the only debate are the Akisho.

The Jarso are of Oromo origin who have heavily intermixed with Somalis, and are slowly assimilating into the Somali race.

 

[AfranQallo]

The Oromo Gada system of assimilation was indeed very crafty and intelligent . The Somalis had processes known as sheegato or isbaheysi. That said , Somalis will have the last laugh because they have the most potent weapon also known as no pullout game . We will become the biggest sperm donors in the Horn .

The Somalis on an average are more proud of a nathion to assimilate others. From what I’ve read, your men would rather take Oromo women and their children, while murdering the men.

Oromos would take them all and they’d become equals into the nation once adopted into a clan.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

The Somalis on an average are more proud of a nathion to assimilate others. From what I’ve read, your men would rather take Oromo women and their children, while murdering the men.

Oromos would take them all and they’d become equals into the nation once adopted into a clan.

The Somalis assimilated their fare share .The Borana had some barbaric war practices . The Omotics and Nilotic or people known as Dinna in your culture were not treated so well . Btw , Oromo had slaves too .Cushitic clans were very conniving as the politics demanded . The Somali clans used the small pox outbreak to decimate the Boran in Southern Cushitiya . There is no crying about the past nor trying to fabricate a rosy past .

 

[AfranQallo]

The Somalis assimilated their fare share .The Borana had some barbaric war practices . The Omotics and Nilotic or people known as Dinna in your culture were not treated so well . Btw , Oromo had slaves too .Cushitic clans were very conniving as the politics demanded . The Somali clans used the small pox outbreak to decimate the Boran in Southern Cushitiya . There is no crying about the past nor trying to fabricate a rosy past .

Not saying we did, what meant is Somalis are more proud, and wouldn’t want to mix as much as Oromos mix. Nothing wrong with it. I actually wished Oromos didn’t mix, we’d be a lot more united if we didn’t.

 

[James Dahl]

Listen, these 2 clans are Oromo.

It was at Mada Walabu were the Oromo clan elders decided they would become 2 confederations, Borana and Barentumma. Those who moved and migrated earlier where the warra Dayyu and Munjo who are today Orma.

The rest have become Barentu or Borana. You will find overlaps in all clans. There are Nooles, Jarso, Metta etc in every region. These clans I believe were once one large unit but went different ways.

The subclans of Orma are all Oromo clans. Can you tell me who they are if not Oromo? They aren’t their own ethnic group, and never have been.

Warra Dayya and Guji identify sometimes as Oromo sometimes not, but they are not in either Borana nor Barentuma, they are outside the system and their own thing. Historically they were considered distinct but because they speak a language that is basically Oromo, modern nationalism which is very focused on language identifies them as an Oromo group.

The focus on language over everything else is where you get the huge debates over whether this or that clan is Somali or Oromo, as sometimes one subclan is Oromo speaking and another on the other side of the river is Somali speaking.

Somali itself originally meant stockmen or herdsmen and wasn't an ethnic or linguistic designation, in the Futuh a Somali man refers to other people as Somali because he is an urban Somali form the Ahmar mountains and the people he is referring to are nomads from the plains. Oromo in the Oromo language originally referred to all human beings everywhere, it only became specifically referring to Oromo speaking people in the 20th century.

People prior to the 20th century didn't have a national identity as people have today, if they did it was one level down where people would consider Hawiye to be their nationality, or Darod, or Macca, or Tulama. There was no such thing as a Somali nation or an Oromo nation or even an Amhara nation. This is an importation from European nationalism into Africa and applied where it did not historically exist.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Warra Dayya and Guji identify sometimes as Oromo sometimes not, but they are not in either Borana nor Barentuma, they are outside the system and their own thing. Historically they were considered distinct but because they speak a language that is basically Oromo, modern nationalism which is very focused on language identifies them as an Oromo group.

The focus on language over everything else is where you get the huge debates over whether this or that clan is Somali or Oromo, as sometimes one subclan is Oromo speaking and another on the other side of the river is Somali speaking.

Somali itself originally meant stockmen or herdsmen and wasn't an ethnic or linguistic designation, in the Futuh a Somali man refers to other people as Somali because he is an urban Somali form the Ahmar mountains and the people he is referring to are nomads from the plains. Oromo in the Oromo language originally referred to all human beings everywhere, it only became specifically referring to Oromo speaking people in the 20th century.

People prior to the 20th century didn't have a national identity as people have today, if they did it was one level down where people would consider Hawiye to be their nationality, or Darod, or Macca, or Tulama. There was no such thing as a Somali nation or an Oromo nation or even an Amhara nation. This is an importation from European nationalism into Africa and applied where it did not historically exist.

Eurocentric Suugo Science !

 

[Grant]

There is no debate that etymology of the word Somali comes from the mythical Samaale ancestor.

I have seen lists such as this that suggest otherwise. It sounds like an occupation:

Tuumaal: makes his living beating metal

Biyomaal: makes his living from water

Saacmaal: makes his living from cows.

Soomaal: makes his living from livestock or milk.

 

[anonimo]

Here is the clan structure..

Bareentu has 5 subclans:
Karrayyu - 6 subclans
Marawa - 2 subclans
Akichu - 12 subclans
Dhumuga - 6 subclans
Humbanna - 2 subclans

The Akisho who you claim are Somali are the Akichu Aba Berhe speaks of who are no longer Oromo.

The Oborra are a subclan of Qallo, son of Humbana. They have 3 subclans of Akichu, the one under Bareentuma have 12 Subclans. These are 2 different clans. Oborra are located west of Ala and Dagga, while “Akisho” are east.

They were the first of the Oromos to move east, and first to accept Islam, and slowly became Somali.

Today yes they are Somali Dir, but not in origin. Rather through association/ cultural and language shift. Just like others have become Oromo.

I am open to persuasion but shit don't add up.

A clan called Akacu are mentioned in Abba Bahrey's book, however, there isn't concrete evidence to suggest that the Gurre/Akisho are the Akacu of Bahrey. M. Hassan's claim that they once inhabited Northern Somalia and are the Akisho/Gurre Somali clan is evidently unreliable and biased.

Moreover, the Gurre/Akisho subclans that live in Hararghe are part of the Oborra and are not a separate clan equal in stature to the Humbana. If they had retained their supposed Akacu lineage, logic would dictate that they would be identified a separate clan. The Arsi, for example, are an offshoot of the Warantisha mentioned in Bahrey's book. How could the Akacu be reduced to a sub sub sub subclan of Humbana?

Secondly, your theory that they became Somali after peacefully cohabiting with us in Somali inhabited territory is foolish. Somalis were merciless towards those they called Gaalo Madoow whenever they had the upper hand. We did not have a Mogasha culture that allowed for the mass adoption of non-Muslims. Even after converting to Islam, the adopted clan would most likely assume the clan identity of those that conquered it. So tell me which Somali clan assimilated the Gurre/Akisho without spears being wielded?

I agree with you that Gurre/Akisho subclan names are Oromo. However, it is common for names to be adapted after assimilation as is evident among other people assimilated into the Oromo. Moreover, a lot of their sub subclan names are clearly Somali. Maybe we should be asking ourselves if the Gurre/Akisho are a confederation of Somali and Oromo like some Afran Qallo subclans hence the confusion?

 

[anonimo]

I have seen lists such as this that suggest otherwise. It sounds like an occupation:

Tuumaal: makes his living beating metal

Biyomaal: makes his living from water

Saacmaal: makes his living from cows.

Soomaal: makes his living from livestock or milk.

Samaale is as old as the Somali ethnic group; it is the foundation myth upon which my identity and that of other Samaale clans is based upon. We will probably never know how it arose and who this mythical ancestor is.

The Biimaal did not, and have never made a living out of water. Contrary to popular opinion, they were mainly a nomadic clan that have only recently adopted agro-pastoralism after the Italians emancipated their imported Bantu slaves.

 

[AfranQallo]

I am open to persuasion but shit don't add up.

A clan called Akacu are mentioned in Abba Bahrey's book, however, there isn't concrete evidence to suggest that the Gurre/Akisho are the Akacu of Bahrey. M. Hassan's claim that they once inhabited Northern Somalia and are the Akisho/Gurre Somali clan is evidently unreliable and biased.

Moreover, the Gurre/Akisho subclans that live in Hararghe are part of the Oborra and are not a separate clan equal in stature to the Humbana. If they had retained their supposed Akacu lineage, logic would dictate that they would be identified a separate clan. The Arsi, for example, are an offshoot of the Warantisha mentioned in Bahrey's book. How could the Akacu be reduced to a sub sub sub subclan of Humbana?

Secondly, your theory that they became Somali after peacefully cohabiting with us in Somali inhabited territory is foolish. Somalis were merciless towards those they called Gaalo Madoow whenever they had the upper hand. We did not have a Mogasha culture that allowed for the mass adoption of non-Muslims. Even after converting to Islam, the adopted clan would most likely assume the clan identity of those that conquered it. So tell me which Somali clan assimilated the Gurre/Akisho without spears being wielded?

I agree with you that Gurre/Akisho subclan names are Oromo. However, it is common for names to be adapted after assimilation as is evident among other people assimilated into the Oromo. Moreover, a lot of their sub subclan names are clearly Somali. Maybe we should be asking ourselves if the Gurre/Akisho are a confederation of Somali and Oromo like some Afran Qallo subclans hence the confusion?

Let’s agree to disagree?

We don’t meet eye to eye on the Akichu/Akisho topic.

All the sub clans are Afran Oromo names. Oromos have assimilated other clans, but they still have Somali names in their lineage. What makes the Akichu different?

The Hawiye amongst Babille have Somali names, Barsuug, and a lot of Qallus claim descent from aw qutub.

Why do the Akisho come from Ejjeso, Obbo, Ittu, Miyyo etc ?

 

[James Dahl]

Let’s agree to disagree?

We don’t meet eye to eye on the Akichu/Akisho topic.

All the sub clans are Afran Oromo names. Oromos have assimilated other clans, but they still have Somali names in their lineage. What makes the Akichu different?

The Hawiye amongst Babille have Somali names, Barsuug, and a lot of Qallus claim descent from aw qutub.

Why do the Akisho come from Ejjeso, Obbo, Ittu, Miyyo etc ?

Yeah but then you go one generation down and the Warre/Reer Miyyo are Warfaa, Dalaal, Rooble etc, all very Somali names.

 

[AfranQallo]

Yeah but then you go one generation down and the Warre/Reer Miyyo are Warfaa, Dalaal, Rooble etc, all very Somali names.

Which would have been later down the line after becoming Somali. Their core clan and sub clans were Oromo, and then the subsub clans became Somali. Why is that? And you of all people don’t know shit. Your website is garbage with incorrect lineages.

You once had a theory that Qallo is Kale of so and so etc. I don’t take you serious.

 

[World]

Let’s agree to disagree?

We don’t meet eye to eye on the Akichu/Akisho topic.

All the sub clans are Afran Oromo names. Oromos have assimilated other clans, but they still have Somali names in their lineage. What makes the Akichu different?

The Hawiye amongst Babille have Somali names, Barsuug, and a lot of Qallus claim descent from aw qutub.

Why do the Akisho come from Ejjeso, Obbo, Ittu, Miyyo etc ?

The Babille Hawiye and Bursuug were only assimilated within the past 100 years. They were mentioned by Richard Burton in 1855 as being Somali sub clans. Same with Gurgura. Only when they started farming after Menelik's conquest of the region(they would have been displaced if they didn't) did they start mixing and assimilating with Oromos. Comparing them to Somalis who have been forcefully assimilated by the Oromos during the 16-17th century is wrong.

 

[James Dahl]

Which would have been later down the line after becoming Somali. Their core clan and sub clans were Oromo, and then the subsub clans became Somali. Why is that? And you of all people don’t know shit. Your website is garbage with incorrect lineages.

You once had a theory that Qallo is Kale of so and so etc. I don’t take you serious.

Whoa where's this hostility coming from? Also what are you talking about?

 

[AfranQallo]

Whoa where's this hostility coming from? Also what are you talking about?

I’ve seen your posts on somnet and other sites. A lot of your info is incorrect.

No hate to you, respect your work but you need more knowledge us. You don’t know the Oromo as much as you think you do.

 

[AfranQallo]

The Babille Hawiye and Bursuug were only assimilated within the past 100 years. They were mentioned by Richard Burton in 1855 as being Somali sub clans. Same with Gurgura. Only when they started farming after Menelik's conquest of the region(they would have been displaced if they didn't) did they start mixing and assimilating with Oromos. Comparing them to Somalis who have been forcefully assimilated by the Oromos during the 16-17th century is wrong.

There was no force assimilation. The AQ gave people the choice to join as Lami(citizen) and if accepted became a part of hosting clan.

These clans have not lost who they are. We have an entire subclan of Noole, the warra Mahammed who were Yabarre and slowly became Oromo. These people know and claim it to his day, no one denies it. They have just accepted being Oromo.

 

[James Dahl]

I’ve seen your posts on somnet and other sites. A lot of your info is incorrect.

No hate to you, respect your work but you need more knowledge us. You don’t know the Oromo as much as you think you do.

Fair enough, I'd like to know more about Oromo lineages but it's not as popular a study as among Somali people, I rarely see Oromo people talking about lineage much.