Somali penunsila used to be called NEW ARABIA

Factz

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:mjlol:You have been nailed once again.

Here's the link.

https://mogadishuimages.wordpress.com/category/media/maps/

"Title: Coast of Zanguebar and Aien
Creator: Morden, Robert
Place of Publication: England
Date: 1688
Published in Modern’s Atlas Terestris."

It is significant because it ties in with other sources to prove Baraawe was a republic, not under Ajuraan control. Allen says the Portuguese defeated 6,000 Tunni warriors and burned Baraawe to the ground in 1506. Welch says the King of Portugal gave the governor permission in 1585 to use the tribute money from Baraawe and Lamu to fund a ship to be used to blockade the area from Mog to Hafun. The Portuguese had a garrison on Socotra and one at Bandel, 12 miles north of Mog. They had fleets at Goa and Malindi to answer any challenge. Mir Ali Bey's second expedition was utterly destroyed after only 3 months in the Indian Ocean. Mukhtar says the Omanis led a revolt against the Portuguese that finally freed the coastal towns in 1758. This means the Portuguese controlled Baraawe and south after 1506 for more than two hundred years. Mukhtar says Baraawe was even a major Portuguese port, drawing trade from the north. According to Cassanelli, 1600-1800 were bad years for Mogadisho. With drought and rinderpest infestations in the Shabelli valley and a Portuguese blackade, most years there was little to no trade. It took the Omanis to re prime the pump.

Stop reading that falsified Wikipedia stuff! :ulyin:
That's a blog. Again fake source. Try again old man. I can make my own blog, doesn't mean it's an authentic source.

I've shown you countless historians and books but you have denied them so there is no further discussion needed between us. You're just a troll with no historical knowledge and that shouldn't be taken seriously.
 
That's a blog. Again fake source. Try again old man. I can make my own blog, doesn't mean it's an authentic source.

I've shown you countless historians and books but you have denied them so there is no further discussion needed between us. You're just a troll with no historical knowledge and that shouldn't be taken seriously.
Perhaps you should do a little reading on Robert Morden. Or Welch would clear up your confusion over Baadiyow's mistakes.


https://www.crouchrarebooks.com/mapmakers/robert-morden

https://www.vintage-maps.com/en/morden-robert-155

https://www.antiquemaps.com/guide/1660/morden/

Portuguese Rule and Spanish Crown in South Africa 1581-1640, Sidney Welch, 1950

It's just not that difficult to find real history, if it is not false history that you are looking for.
 

Factz

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Perhaps you should do a little reading on Robert Morden. Or Welch would clear up your confusion over Baadiyow's mistakes.


https://www.crouchrarebooks.com/mapmakers/robert-morden

https://www.vintage-maps.com/en/morden-robert-155

https://www.antiquemaps.com/guide/1660/morden/

Portuguese Rule and Spanish Crown in South Africa 1581-1640, Sidney Welch, 1950

It's just not that difficult to find real history, if it is not false history that you are looking for.
I trust the updated historians, not some 18th century historian who made geographical mistakes and historical errors.

The historians I listed already provided "real history" and is accepted by most academics. What you disagree with has nothing to do with me.
 
I trust the updated historians, not some 18th century historian who made geographical mistakes and historical errors.

The historians I listed already provided "real history" and is accepted by most academics. What you disagree with has nothing to do with me.
Writers who make the errors Baadiyow and Wikipedia make are not historians worthy of the name. Remember, it was Baadiyow who said the Circumnavigation was written by the Red Sea and confused Mir Ali Bey with Suleyman the Magnificent.. And look up "Jilib" on Wiki. It says Nassib Bundo ruled from Qalafo to Hobyo to Kismayu. With respect to Somali history, they can't either one be trusted.

Robert Morden is 17th century. The map is 1688 and he died in 1703.

You are simply fooling yourself and leading others astray.
 
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Factz

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Writers who make the errors Baadiyow and Wikipedia make are not historians worthy of the name. Remember, it was Baadiyow who said the Circumnavigation was written by the Red Sea and confused Mir Ali Bey with Suleyman the Magnificent.. And look up "Jilib" on Wiki. It says Nassib Bundo ruled from Qalafo to Hobyo to Kismayu. With respect to Somali history, they can't either one be trusted.

Robert Morden is 17th century. The map is 1688 and he died in 1703.

You are simply fooling yourself and leading others astray.
Who's Baadiyow and I don't know a historian named wikipedia? Anyways, I've listed MANY historians with PHD background so I rather listen to them than a dotard internet troll like you.

The only people leading to astray is you and your falsified blogs.
 
Who's Baadiyow and I don't know a historian named wikipedia? Anyways, I've listed MANY historians with PHD background so I rather listen to them than a dotard internet troll like you.

The only people leading to astray is you and your falsified blogs.
As you are demonstrating here, silliness is not a substitute for the real deal. Your way overstretched favorite author can be searched just with his nick: Baadiyow. Try it.

  1. Abdirahman Abdullahi Baadiyow - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdirahman_Abdullahi_BaadiyowDr. Abdurahman M. Abdullahi (Baadiyow) was born in 1954 in the district of Elder in Somalia. He has been a military officer (1971–1986), electronic engineer, ...
  2. Taariikh Nololeedka Dr. Abdurahman Baadiyow I BARNAAMIJKA ...
    11, 2015 ... Taariikh Nololeedka Dr. Abdurahman Abdullahi 'Baadiyow' ee soo gudbiyeen BARNAAMIJKA WAAYAHA NOLOSHA 31 07 2015.
  3. Dr. Abdurahman Abdullahi Baadiyow - Home | Facebook
    https://www.facebook.com/abdurahman.baadiyow/Dr. Abdurahman Abdullahi Baadiyow, Mogadishu, Somalia. 46536 likes · 46 talking about this. The official page of Dr. Abdurahman Abdullahi (Baadiyow). He. ..
  4. Dr. Abdurahman Abdullahi (Baadiyow) - Deputy Chairman - National ...
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-abdurahman-abdullahi-baadiyow-89971b25View Dr. Abdurahman Abdullahi (Baadiyow)'s profile on LinkedIn, the world's largest professional community. Dr. Abdurahman has 4 jobs listed on their profile.
  5. (DOC) BIBLIOGRAPHY OF DR. ABDURAHMAN BAADIYOW.docx ...
    https://www.academia.edu/31598428/BIBLIOGRAPHY_OF_DR._ABDURAHMAN_BAADIYOW.docx1 BIBLIOGRAPHY: Dr. Abdurahman Abdullahi (Baadiyow) Note: This bibliography puts forth only academic thesis, book chapters, academic papers, articles and ...
  6. Abdurahman Abdullahi (Baadiyow) | Mogadishu University ...
    http://mogadishuuniversity.academia.edu/AbdurahmanAbdullahibaadiyowAbdurahman Abdullahi (Baadiyow), Mogadishu University, Institute of Somali Studies ( ISOS),
 
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Factz

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@Factz Why do you deny the source?
I don't fully deny it but historians at that time do create some errors. He said Ayen (Ajuran) dominated Mogadishu, Merca, and Brava. I agree with him on that but Adel (Adal)? Since when did Ajuran rule the north? Anyways, he didn't make the mistake when he said Ajuran ruled Mogadishu, Merca and Barawa. According to @Grant, he's a 17th century scholar and yet he's right about the Ajuran ports, unlike this old fool who barely understands the history of Somalia. Grant, your favourite author. Don't bother being dishonest this time and try accepting basic history.

 
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I don't fully deny it but historians at that time do create some errors. He said Ayen (Ajuran) dominated Mogadishu, Merca, and Brava. I agree with him on that but Adel (Adal)? Since when did Ajuran rule the north? Anyways, he didn't make the mistake when he said Ajuran ruled Mogadishu, Merca and Barawa. According to @Grant, he's a 17th century scholar and yet he's right about the Ajuran ports, unlike this old fool who barely understands the history of Somalia. Grant, your favourite author. Don't bother being dishonest this time and try accepting basic history.


Aien is written in French "Ajan",

http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/historical/Africa_NE_1829.jpg

https://www.geographicus.com/P/AntiqueMap/Abissinie-vaugondy-1749

and is related to both Azania and the trading area east and south of the Red Sea from Adulis.

There is no relationship to the Ajuraan.
---------------------------------------------------------

Again, it is the text he objects to.

upload_2019-5-31_7-36-59.png


Baraawe paid tribute to Portugal for over two hundred years. The Ajuraan never protected them or drove the Portuguese out. The last Ajuraan Imaam was killed by the Hiraab at Ceel Cawl shortly after 1625. By the 1688 date of the text they were long out of power and are not mentioned.

"Factz" probably also doesn't like having Zeila associated with the Troglodytes.

upload_2019-5-31_9-4-2.png


Be that as it may,

Barraboa was at the mouth of the Jubba river, which is thought to have been one of multiple locations for the moving capital of the Shungwaya culture, which moved as the mouth of the Jubba moved. Adea? Quilimia?

https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/content/part/EANHS/No. 17_24_1922_Juxton_Barton.pdf

"Ptolemy, in about A.D. 140, marks the coast of Jubaland and Italian,Somaliland as simply' Barbaria,' the interior as 'Azania,' Kismayu 'Parvum Littus,' Port Durnford or thereabouts 'Magnum Littus.' Al Idris, in 1154, follows Ptolemy in ' Barbaria,' marking islands off the coast. Martin Behaim, in 1492, leaves the coast a blank. Diego Ribero of Seville, in 1529, showing Lamu, Patte, the Bajun Islands, the mouth of Juba River almost accurately, embellishes the coast and interior with drawings of elephants. Pigafetta, in 1591, shows what may be the Tana River, Barkao, the mouth of the Juba, and islands. Jacob van Meurs, in 1668, shows a town at Kismayu called 'Liongo,' and marks the vicinity of the Juba River' Barenboa,' calling an island, with a town on the mainland opposite, , Tetile ' (Tula). H. Moll, in 1710, calls the coast of Jubaland 'Barra Boa,' and the interior ' Quilimia.' Smith's New Map of Africa, 1815, shows a town on the Juba mouth and the country between the Juba and the Tana as' Galla.' , Liongo ' was a semi-mythical Swahili hero, vulnerable only in his navel to a copper needle, the subject of many poems, who lived in the neighbourhood of Lamu and who was buried at Ozi. Lamu and Patte are, however, shown in Jacob van Meurs' map, while Liongo occupies the place of Kismayu. , Barenboa,' , Barra Boa' : the Bajuns, the Gallas, and the Somali use the word 'Barobaro' to denote an unmarried youth of the warrior class. Possibly also the word may be derived from' barra' (Ki-Swahili, Arabic, ' the interior."

The Ajuraan are essentially unknown. There is no correspondence with them in any African or Middle Eastern archive, not in Egypt and not in Turkey. The Boran say they fought the "Sagal" Reewin, not the Ajuraan. According to Mukhtar's chronology, Luuq Aw Madow, Sarmaan Aw Umur and Mereerey Aw Hassan, all theocratic states, emerged about 1555 in what was theoretically Ajuraan territory. There is also the matter of Liongo and Adea. Methinks the Ajuraan have been greatly overblown. Certainly the material in Wikipedia is warped beyond recognition and mostly false.
 
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Diaspora ambassador

Representative of Bari
Aien is written in French "Ajan",

http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/historical/Africa_NE_1829.jpg

https://www.geographicus.com/P/AntiqueMap/Abissinie-vaugondy-1749

and is related to both Azania and the trading area east and south of the Red Sea from Adulis.

There is no relationship to the Ajuraan.
---------------------------------------------------------

Again, it is the text he objects to.

View attachment 73266

Baraawe paid tribute to Portugal for over two hundred years. The Ajuraan never protected them or drove the Portuguese out. The last Ajuraan Imaam was killed by the Hiraab at Ceel Cawl shortly after 1625. By the 1688 date of the text they were long out of power and are not mentioned.

"Factz" probably also doesn't like having Zeila associated with the Troglodytes.

View attachment 73269

Be that as it may,

Barraboa was at the mouth of the Jubba river, which is thought to have been one of multiple locations for the moving capital of the Shungwaya culture, which moved as the mouth of the Jubba moved. Adea?

https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/content/part/EANHS/No. 17_24_1922_Juxton_Barton.pdf

"Ptolemy, in about A.D. 140, marks the coast of Jubaland and Italian,Somaliland as simply' Barbaria,' the interior as 'Azania,' Kismayu 'Parvum Littus,' Port Durnford or thereabouts 'Magnum Littus.' Al Idris, in 1154, follows Ptolemy in ' Barbaria,' marking islands off the coast. Martin Behaim, in 1492, leaves the coast a blank. Diego Ribero of Seville, in 1529, showing Lamu, Patte, the Bajun Islands, the mouth of Juba River almost accurately, embellishes the coast and interior with drawings of elephants. Pigafetta, in 1591, shows what may be the Tana River, Barkao, the mouth of the Juba, and islands. Jacob van Meurs, in 1668, shows a town at Kismayu called 'Liongo,' and marks the vicinity of the Juba River' Barenboa,' calling an island, with a town on the mainland opposite, , Tetile ' (Tula). H. Moll, in 1710, calls the coast of Jubaland 'Barra Boa,' and the interior ' Quilimia.' Smith's New Map of Africa, 1815, shows a town on the Juba mouth and the country between the Juba and the Tana as' Galla.' , Liongo ' was a semi-mythical Swahili hero, vulnerable only in his navel to a copper needle, the subject of many poems, who lived in the neighbourhood of Lamu and who was buried at Ozi. Lamu and Patte are, however, shown in Jacob van Meurs' map, while Liongo occupies the place of Kismayu. , Barenboa,' , Barra Boa' : the Bajuns, the Gallas, and the Somali use the word 'Barobaro' to denote an unmarried youth of the warrior class. Possibly also the word may be derived from' barra' (Ki-Swahili, Arabic, ' the interior."

The Ajuraan are essentially unknown. There is no correspondence with them in any African or Middle Eastern archive, not in Egypt and not in Turkey. The Boran say they fought the "Sagal" Reewin, not the Ajuraan. According to Mukhtar's chronology, Luuq Aw Madow, Sarmaan Aw Umur and Mereerey Aw Hassan, all theocratic states, emerged about 1555 in what was theoretically Ajuraan territory. There is also the matter of Liongo and Adea. Methinks the Ajuraan have been greatly overblown. Certainly the material in Wikipedia is warped beyond recognition and mostly false.
Some of it maybe falls but they traded with to ottomons and secured the indian ocean it is hard to believe there is no record of their trade
 
Some of it maybe falls but they traded with to ottomons and secured the indian ocean it is hard to believe there is no record of their trade
Adal and Harar traded with the Ottomans. After Gurey's defeat and the growth in Persian strength after Suleyman, the Otoman's stayed out of the Indian Ocean. Mir Ali Bey's two expeditions were the private work of a couple of Pashas. Mir Ali himself was captured and his entire fleet captured within three months of his second entry into the Indian Ocean. His first expedition to Lamu did not net enough to finance a second expedition and the pashas did not dare go to the Ottoman Sultan for money as their project was not official... It was actually meagerly financed by the merchants from Mogadishu, who had a lot to gain if the Portuguese blockade was lifted. (See Sidney Welch.)

If the Ajuraan had secured the Indian Ocean and traded with the Ottomans there would be a record, but there isn't.
 

Diaspora ambassador

Representative of Bari
Adal and Harar traded with the Ottomans. After Gurey's defeat and the growth in Persian strength after Suleyman, the Otoman's stayed out of the Indian Ocean. Mir Ali Bey's two expeditions were the private work of a couple of Pashas. Mir Ali himself was captured and his entire fleet captured within three months of his second entry into the Indian Ocean. His first expedition to Lamu did not net enough to finance a second expedition and the pashas did not dare go to the Ottoman Sultan for money as their project was not official... It was actually meagerly financed by the merchants from Mogadishu, who had a lot to gain if the Portuguese blockade was lifted. (See Sidney Welch.)

If the Ajuraan had secured the Indian Ocean and traded with the Ottomans there would be a record, but there isn't.
The ottomans traded in the indian ocean and the ajuraan did the same they fought toghether on the same side for 2 decades against the portugees for the indian ocean. Ofcourse the documents will be hard to get since it was a islamic force that won. The ajuraan empire was the geatest empire in africa. How did they not trade with others but their own currency is found in different places around the continents. It simply makes no sense to deny it.
 
The ottomans traded in the indian ocean and the ajuraan did the same they fought toghether on the same side for 2 decades against the portugees for the indian ocean. Ofcourse the documents will be hard to get since it was a islamic force that won. The ajuraan empire was the geatest empire in africa. How did they not trade with others but their own currency is found in different places around the continents. It simply makes no sense to deny it.
Mogadishu currency is found in a lot of places, but Ajuraan currency is inferior in quality and I believe there are only 4 or 5 known mintings, found mostly close to home. It's not the same at all.

The best information on the Ajuraan is found in the Hawiyye oral traditions, many of which were recorded by Cerulli. The Ajuraan were a Hawiyye confederation, not an empire. The territory over which they ruled has been greatly exaggerated. They never ruled from or in Mogadishu, which was an Arab-Persian enclave until the Hiraab killed the Yemeni Muzzaffar governor about 1625 and an Abgaal Imaam took over. The Hiraab killed the last Ajuraan Imaam at Ceel Cawl shortly thereafter. The Ajuraan were allied to the Yemeni Muzzaffars, not subject to them.

https://operationoverload.wordpress...ye-history-before-the-somali-republic/page/4/

"Cerulli has recorded traditional narrative of how the Darandole conquered Mogadishu against the Muzaffar dynasty:

“In ancient times the Sirasi lived in Mogadiscio. The people called Halawani succeeded the Sirasi. The Mudaffar succeeded the Halawani. The Mudaffar came from the country of Yemen in Arabia. He had guns. He built the palace that is found under the Governor’s house. He was a friend of the Aguran. At that time the Mudaffar governed the coast; and the Aguran ruled in the woodland. The Hirabe were not nearby them; they lived in the northern places. At that time the people of the woodland could not spend the night in the city of Mogadiscio. At sunset a ban was put on the city: ‘Hawiyya, it is growing dark! Hawiyya, it is growing dark!’ Then they went away toward the woodland.

“Later the Mudaffar had an interpreter who was called ‘Ismankäy Haggi ‘Ali. This ‘Ismankäy had the idea of letting the Darandollä enter the city. A message was sent to the imam Mahmud ‘Umar, who lived at Golol. The imam, guiding his Page: 71 warriors, came south and approached Mogadiscio. Then what did ‘Ismankäy do? He spoke with the Mudaffar: ‘By now the Darandollä are near Mogadiscio, let me be accompanied by some soldiers, and I shall go to them.’ ‘How do you want to do it?’ ‘I shall do it this way. I shall come to an agreement with the leaders and make them return to the places in the north.’ ‘So be it!’ said the Mudaffar. Then ‘Ismänkäy took some soldiers with him, but without weapons: ‘Leave your weapons! We go out to conclude an agreement, not really for war.’ They put down the weaons. They went into the woodland. When they had gone into the woodland, the Darandollä came out and took all the soldiers prisoner. Then they continued the raid and entered Mogadiscio. The Mudaffar was caputred and they wanted to kill him. But he, looking at the people who had come close to him, saw among them ‘Ismankäy Haggi Ali. ‘Stop!’ he said then. ‘Before you kill me, I want to speak. O ‘Ismankäy, you are good for nothing, you are capable of nothing, you will not pass seven!’ he said. Thus was 248 ‘Ismankäy cursed. When the Mudaffar was killed, when seven days passed after his death, ‘Ismankäy died too. It happened exactly as he had been cursed.!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[5]<!–[endif]–>

The Darandoolle have conquered Mogadishu city and killed the Muzzaffar governor sometime between 1590 and 1625. The approximate dates appear to be corroborated by a Portuguese document dated 1624<!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[6]<!–[endif]–>.

After the Darandoolle Mudulood took control of the Mogadishu city in 1624, they quarrelled with the Ajuraan on the interior.

‘After entering Muqdisho, the Darandoolle quarrelled with the Ajuraan. They quarrelled over watering rights. The Ajuraan had decreed: ‘At the wells in our territory, the people known as Darandoolle and the other Hiraab cannot water their herds by day, but only at night’’…Then all the Darandoolle gathered in one place. The leaders decided to make war on the Ajuraan. They found the imam of the Ajuraan seated on a rock near a well called Ceel Cawl. They killed him with a sword. As they struck him with the sword, they split his body together with the rock on which he was seated. He died immediately and the Ajuraan migrated out of the country.’<!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[7]<!–[endif]–>"

You can read Cassanelli's analysis here:

https://operationoverload.wordpress.com/category/hawiye-history-before-the-somali-republic/
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
Mogadishu currency is found in a lot of places, but Ajuraan currency is inferior in quality and I believe there are only 4 or 5 known mintings, found mostly close to home. It's not the same at all.

The best information on the Ajuraan is found in the Hawiyye oral traditions, many of which were recorded by Cerulli. The Ajuraan were a Hawiyye confederation, not an empire. The territory over which they ruled has been greatly exaggerated. They never ruled from or in Mogadishu, which was an Arab-Persian enclave until the Hiraab killed the Yemeni Muzzaffar governor about 1625 and an Abgaal Imaam took over. The Hiraab killed the last Ajuraan Imaam at Ceel Cawl shortly thereafter. The Ajuraan were allied to the Yemeni Muzzaffars, not subject to them.

https://operationoverload.wordpress...ye-history-before-the-somali-republic/page/4/

"Cerulli has recorded traditional narrative of how the Darandole conquered Mogadishu against the Muzaffar dynasty:

“In ancient times the Sirasi lived in Mogadiscio. The people called Halawani succeeded the Sirasi. The Mudaffar succeeded the Halawani. The Mudaffar came from the country of Yemen in Arabia. He had guns. He built the palace that is found under the Governor’s house. He was a friend of the Aguran. At that time the Mudaffar governed the coast; and the Aguran ruled in the woodland. The Hirabe were not nearby them; they lived in the northern places. At that time the people of the woodland could not spend the night in the city of Mogadiscio. At sunset a ban was put on the city: ‘Hawiyya, it is growing dark! Hawiyya, it is growing dark!’ Then they went away toward the woodland.

“Later the Mudaffar had an interpreter who was called ‘Ismankäy Haggi ‘Ali. This ‘Ismankäy had the idea of letting the Darandollä enter the city. A message was sent to the imam Mahmud ‘Umar, who lived at Golol. The imam, guiding his Page: 71 warriors, came south and approached Mogadiscio. Then what did ‘Ismankäy do? He spoke with the Mudaffar: ‘By now the Darandollä are near Mogadiscio, let me be accompanied by some soldiers, and I shall go to them.’ ‘How do you want to do it?’ ‘I shall do it this way. I shall come to an agreement with the leaders and make them return to the places in the north.’ ‘So be it!’ said the Mudaffar. Then ‘Ismänkäy took some soldiers with him, but without weapons: ‘Leave your weapons! We go out to conclude an agreement, not really for war.’ They put down the weaons. They went into the woodland. When they had gone into the woodland, the Darandollä came out and took all the soldiers prisoner. Then they continued the raid and entered Mogadiscio. The Mudaffar was caputred and they wanted to kill him. But he, looking at the people who had come close to him, saw among them ‘Ismankäy Haggi Ali. ‘Stop!’ he said then. ‘Before you kill me, I want to speak. O ‘Ismankäy, you are good for nothing, you are capable of nothing, you will not pass seven!’ he said. Thus was 248 ‘Ismankäy cursed. When the Mudaffar was killed, when seven days passed after his death, ‘Ismankäy died too. It happened exactly as he had been cursed.!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[5]<!–[endif]–>

The Darandoolle have conquered Mogadishu city and killed the Muzzaffar governor sometime between 1590 and 1625. The approximate dates appear to be corroborated by a Portuguese document dated 1624<!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[6]<!–[endif]–>.

After the Darandoolle Mudulood took control of the Mogadishu city in 1624, they quarrelled with the Ajuraan on the interior.

‘After entering Muqdisho, the Darandoolle quarrelled with the Ajuraan. They quarrelled over watering rights. The Ajuraan had decreed: ‘At the wells in our territory, the people known as Darandoolle and the other Hiraab cannot water their herds by day, but only at night’’…Then all the Darandoolle gathered in one place. The leaders decided to make war on the Ajuraan. They found the imam of the Ajuraan seated on a rock near a well called Ceel Cawl. They killed him with a sword. As they struck him with the sword, they split his body together with the rock on which he was seated. He died immediately and the Ajuraan migrated out of the country.’<!–[if !supportFootnotes]–>[7]<!–[endif]–>"

You can read Cassanelli's analysis here:

https://operationoverload.wordpress.com/category/hawiye-history-before-the-somali-republic/
Look at you Grant. Just lying and making shit up. Those are blogs mate, shouldn't be taken seriously.

Mogadishu stop minting its currency when they became under Ajuran and started incorporating Mogadishu currency into Ajuran currency. Who told you Ajuran currency is inferior and where are your sources? Ajuran currency has been found in Persia and even Java. Mogadishu currency has only been found in Oman and they stopped producing their own coins after they became part of the Ajuran kingdom. Ajuran territory extending from Hobyo in the north, to Qelafo in the west, to Kismayo in the south is not an exaggerating but a historical fact. Also, Ajuran coins been found across the Indian ocean further proves they've had contacts with kingdoms around the world and traded with them. Your lies won't last long old man and nobody here takes you seriously.

Mogadishu was never an Arab/Persian enclave and the Mudaffar dynasty was an Ajuran family that ruled Mogadishu. They were never Yemeni and your only source is Cassanelli who records false traditions by minority groups. That's not authentic.



This source is called Cities of the Middle East and North Africa: A Historical Encyclopedia

Written by two top historians called Michael Dumper and Bruce E. Stanley

Lastly, the Ajuran are not Hawiye nor was their kingdom a confederation. The fact that you say this shows your lack of understanding of Somali history. Even James Dahl had to correct you before. Read what he said one more time.

 
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Look at you Grant. Just lying and making shit up. Those are blogs mate, shouldn't be taken seriously.

Mogadishu stop minting its currency when they became under Ajuran and started incorporating Mogadishu currency into Ajuran currency. Who told you Ajuran currency is inferior and where are your sources? Ajuran currency has been found in Persia and even Java. Mogadishu currency has only been found in Oman and they stopped producing their own coins after they became part of the Ajuran kingdom. Ajuran territory extending from Hobyo in the north, to Qelafo in the west, to Kismayo in the south is not an exaggerating but a historical fact. Also, Ajuran coins been found across the Indian ocean further proves they've had contacts with kingdoms around the world and traded with them. Your lies won't last long old man and nobody here takes you seriously.

Mogadishu was never an Arab/Persian enclave and the Mudaffar dynasty was an Ajuran family that ruled Mogadishu. They were never Yemeni and your only source is Cassanelli who records false traditions by minority groups. That's not authentic.



This source is called Cities of the Middle East and North Africa: A Historical Encyclopedia

Written by two top historians called Michael Dumper and Bruce E. Stanley

Lastly, the Ajuran are not Hawiye nor was their kingdom a confederation. The fact that you say this shows your lack of understanding of Somali history. Even James Dahl had to correct you before. Read what he said one more time.

You are grasping at silly straws.

Read James again. The gold that was traded at Sofala was not mined there, which was another point we had an issue with. Your quote from him also says the Ajuraan were an absolute monarchy that ruled over the Gorgaate Hawiyye without mentioning anybody else. Read the Ajuraan origin story above. Any part of the Ajuraan that were not Gorgaate Hawiyye was from Balad, an Arab.

Stanley and Dumper are just editors. You have to go back to the article for the references. The Encyclopedia is 2007, which means it has likely been contaminated by Wiki, but I will let you do the leg work you should have done in the first place. I have checked these things before and they don't get back to prime sources.

The only actual information we have on the Ajuraan is from the Hawiyya oral traditions, for which I gave you links above. Anything else is just interpretation.. Scott Reese is considered the authority here, so I suggest you read his Renewers of the Age, following page 38.
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
You are grasping at silly straws.

Read James again. The gold that was traded at Sofala was not mined there, which was another point we had an issue with. Your quote from him also says the Ajuraan were an absolute monarchy that ruled over the Gorgaate Hawiyye without mentioning anybody else. Read the Ajuraan origin story above. Any part of the Ajuraan that were not Gorgaate Hawiyye was from Balad, an Arab.

Stanley and Dumper are just editors. You have to go back to the article for the references. The Encyclopedia is 2007, which means it has likely been contaminated by Wiki, but I will let you do the leg work you should have done in the first place. I have checked these things before and they don't get back to prime sources.

The only actual information we have on the Ajuraan is from the Hawiyya oral traditions, for which I gave you links above. Anything else is just interpretation.. Scott Reese is considered the authority here, so I suggest you read his Renewers of the Age, following page 38.
No, we have Ajuran traditions and writing scripts that tells us the exact history, not some oral traditions from other groups because it can be falsified most of the time. Nobody here was talking about Sofala, James Dahl disproved you when he said Ajuran are not Hawiye nor were their kingdom was a confederation. So me showing you a source is grasping a silly straw just because it debunks your erroneous narrative? Sorry old man but I think you are grasping silly straws from false traditions recorded by Cassanelli. That shouldn't even be classified as history. These historians are not using Wikipedia references nor does Wikipedia make any mention of Mudaffar dynasty being Somali. You just keep on lying old man. You make me laugh.
:chrisfreshhah:
 

madaxweyne

madaxweyne
VIP
Look at you Grant. Just lying and making shit up. Those are blogs mate, shouldn't be taken seriously.

Mogadishu stop minting its currency when they became under Ajuran and started incorporating Mogadishu currency into Ajuran currency. Who told you Ajuran currency is inferior and where are your sources? Ajuran currency has been found in Persia and even Java. Mogadishu currency has only been found in Oman and they stopped producing their own coins after they became part of the Ajuran kingdom. Ajuran territory extending from Hobyo in the north, to Qelafo in the west, to Kismayo in the south is not an exaggerating but a historical fact. Also, Ajuran coins been found across the Indian ocean further proves they've had contacts with kingdoms around the world and traded with them. Your lies won't last long old man and nobody here takes you seriously.

Mogadishu was never an Arab/Persian enclave and the Mudaffar dynasty was an Ajuran family that ruled Mogadishu. They were never Yemeni and your only source is Cassanelli who records false traditions by minority groups. That's not authentic.



This source is called Cities of the Middle East and North Africa: A Historical Encyclopedia

Written by two top historians called Michael Dumper and Bruce E. Stanley

Lastly, the Ajuran are not Hawiye nor was their kingdom a confederation. The fact that you say this shows your lack of understanding of Somali history. Even James Dahl had to correct you before. Read what he said one more time.

you know you messed up when even the other white guy calls you a revisionist :siilaanyolaugh:
furthur proof that @Grant is nothing but a revisionist
 
No, we have Ajuran traditions and writing scripts that tells us the exact history, not some oral traditions from other groups because it can be falsified most of the time. Nobody here was talking about Sofala, James Dahl disproved you when he said Ajuran are not Hawiye nor were their kingdom was a confederation. So me showing you a source is grasping a silly straw just because it debunks your erroneous narrative? Sorry old man but I think you are grasping silly straws from false traditions recorded by Cassanelli. That shouldn't even be classified as history. These historians are not using Wikipedia references nor does Wikipedia make any mention of Mudaffar dynasty being Somali. You just keep on lying old man. You make me laugh.
:chrisfreshhah:
:rolleyes: Great! Please post. I would love to see anything produced by or on the Ajuraan.

Meanwhile, the oral traditions were recorded by Cerulli,. Cassanelli just analyzed them.

Revolvy is not much better than Wikipedia, but it is easy to get to online and this has the references and an abtiris for the Ajuraan clan for which I have other sources. There are those who say ( ( actually stated here) that even Bal'ad was Hawiyya.

https://www.revolvy.com/page/Ajuran-(clan)

"Ajuran (clan)
...
The Ajuran (Arabic: أجران) is a Hawiye subclan. Group members largely inhabit Kenya as well as Ethiopia; considerable numbers are also found in Somalia.[1][2]


Overview
The Ajuran clan's origins are found in the Ajuran Sultante, a Somali Muslimsultanate that ruled over large parts of the Horn of Africa in the Middle Ages.[3][4][5] Today they largely live in Kenya, the North Eastern Provinceand the Somali region of Ethiopia, but also in Somalia.

The Ajuraan largely speak the Somali language, but a big portion also speak the Borana language.[6]

The Ajuran are descendants of Alama who in turn is a son of Bal'ad who traces descent from Harmalle Samaale through multiple ancestors.

History
The Ajuran clan established the Garen Dynasty that ruled both Mogadishu Sultanate and Ajuran Empire during the middle ages.

Clan Tree
This Clan Tree is based on "Identities on the Move: Clanship and Pastoralism in Northern Kenya" by Gunther Schlee.[7]

-Samaale

  • Harmalle
    • Bal'ad
      • Alama
        • Ajuran
          • Waaqle
          • Wallemugge
          • Saremugge
          • Tore
          • Dakhsore
          • Beidan
          • Badbeidan
          • Sanle
Notable Ajuran people
References
  1. Mohamed Haji Mukhtar (25 February 2003). Historical Dictionary of Somalia. Scarecrow Press. p. 35. ISBN 978-0-8108-6604-1.
  2. Kenya National Assembly Official Record (Hansard). 1984-03-20.
  3. Luling, Virginia (2002). Somali Sultanate: the Geledi city-state over 150 years. Transaction Publishers. p. 17. ISBN 978-1-874209-98-0.
  4. Luc Cambrézy, Populations réfugiées: de l'exil au retour, p.316
  5. Mukhtar, Mohamed Haji. "The Emergence and Role of Political Parties in the Inter-River Region of Somalia from 1947–1960". Ufahamu. 17 (2): 98.
  6. Schlee, Günther; Watson, Elizabeth E. (2009-01-01). Changing Identifications and Alliances in North-East Africa. Berghahn Books. ISBN 9781845456030.
  7. Schlee, Günther; Watson, Elizabeth E. (2009-01-01). Changing "
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If James has better information he needs to link it, which he has not done and which I do not think he can do. The only possible non Hawiyye in the mix is Bal'ad, @James Dahl .
 
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