They apply common sense selectively. They prefer their blind faith in fairy tales that tell whales walked out of the water or the opposite and that hippos went in and lost legs to become whales.
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Should you hide being an atheist even if you have the means and safety to be openly out?
- Thread starter Steamdevolopment
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They apply common sense selectively. They prefer their blind faith in fairy tales that tell whales walked out of the water or the opposite and that hippos went in and lost legs to become whales.
Sometimes the choices people make can drive them away from Islam knowing their choices are condemned as sinful, so you are right in the sense that perhaps her lesbian status made her become a non-Muslim although that shouldn't happen at all and the two are not connected, or should not be connected.
She would fall into the category of those who worship their desires in place of Allah. Everyone worships something or someone.
Rational thought would lead someone to separate desires they have and what makes sense about life, death and origins of the Universe. Islam explains the known and the unknown in light of the creator. Choices need to be made by human beings. At least those who use their brain and opt to exercise their will to find the answers to fundamental questions of our existence will come to a certain conclusion.
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AIOPZ
Pan-Islamist
I posted this on a previous thread but I'm going to go ahead and post it again for the lovely @Steamdevolopment in defense of God's existence.
We’re going to walk through a series of simple and true premises. From them comes a true conclusion: there *must* exist an independent, singular, necessary being:
First, let’s define contingency. A contingent reality is a reality that depends on something else. So it could have either existed or not existed, and could have existed in a different way. A pen, tree, human, and the universe itself are all contingent. For example, the universe depends on 1) being caused in the first place, 2) the substituent parts that make it up (matter, time, space, etc), and 3) variation; it could have existed a different way or not at all The universe is contingent—it draws its qualities from these preceding factors. The atheist argues that all reality is built ONLY upon contingent things, as a non contingent thing must be independent of anything else and be self-existent. In other words, God. Let’s see if the atheist perspective—a reality built only on contingent things—can be possible. We know the universe itself is contingent. These are the possible options that it could be dependent on: 1) a finite chain of other contingent realities (CR) 2) an infinite chain of other CR or 3) A non contingent reality (NCR) then any number of CR, if any. The first option can’t work. Since a CR depends on something for its existence, in the absence of such a thing, the CR couldn’t exist. In a finite chain, the first CR’s conditions aren’t fulfilled. It has nothing to depend on, and couldn’t exist. Thus, the chain as a whole collapses, resulting in the current CR (the universe) to also lose its conditions and cease to exist. Since the universe does exist, option 1 is impossible. See 1 —> 3 in the diagram below:
Well, what if the chain was circular, in that the first CR depends on the last CR? This is also impossible. All points on the circle are contingent on the one before it, and thus it loops back to being contingent on itself. This means that all CR(x) in the chain are dependent on themselves, which contradict their own nature. Arguing for a circular chain of CR actually adds to the necessity of a NCR, a self-existent and independent reality.
Okay then what about option 2, an infinite chain of CR? This is also impossible. Each CR on the infinite chain is dependent on another CR. But any specific CR doesn’t have its own *actual* existence. Since CR(x) depends on the one before it, and so on infinitely, there doesn’t exist a true CR with its conditions fulfilled, and consequently there is no CR to allow for a following one to exist. It’s the same as summing together an infinite number of 0’s—the sum is still 0. An infinite regress of CR means none of their contingencies are met, and none can exist. Imagine having a jar of infinite marbles. The chances of pulling one out is 1/infinity, which is 0.
This means you could never single out one specific marble. In the same way, you could never single out one CR to cause, or depend on, another CR. Since the universe exists, this option cannot be possible either. This leaves us with the last option: a NCR must exist. The qualities of such a NCR must be: independent, self-existent, and one. It must be one because if there were many, it introduces a variable that needs explanation: what differs them? If there are differences, they all become contingent on what caused them to differ. So the NCR, which must exist as a logical necessity, is independent, self-existent, and one. In the Quran: “Say He, Allah, is One. Allah, the Self-Existent. He begets not, nor is He begotten, and there is none equal to Him.” The definition of the NCR is the definition of God.
So what do atheists say?
1) The universe is not contingent -This is just false. Nothing else to say
2) The universe is contingent on the multiverse -The “multiverse” would still be contingent as it has specific qualities that need explanation
3) God is contingent because He has specific qualities, such as justice, wisdom, or location -These qualities are contingent on Himself.
Let me explain. The greatest attribute of God is Oneness. This is why the message of all the prophets is monotheism. His Oneness alone is what is non contingent, uncreated, independent From a mathematical perspective, anything that is itself, is one, because the number 1 is the only true unit. All other numbers have value *because* they are referenced to 1. But what gives value to 1? Itself—it is independent. It’s the explanation for all numbers while not requiring an explanation for itself. God’s Oneness is the same. He is transcendent from all things—logic, concepts, natures. All is contingent on Him, including specific attributes He has chosen for Himself. Islamically, we know this to be true, as it’s narrated in an authentic hadith that God said: “O my servants, I have forbidden injustice for Myself and I have forbidden it among you.” This tells us His quality of justice is contingent on Himself—He chose injustice to be forbidden, a mercy to us. It didn't have to be that way.
In conclusion, the argument states: -there must exist a NCR—God—in order for contingent things to exist -contingent things exist -therefore, God must exist If you don’t want to call the NCR God, fine. You can say this instead:
We’re going to walk through a series of simple and true premises. From them comes a true conclusion: there *must* exist an independent, singular, necessary being:
First, let’s define contingency. A contingent reality is a reality that depends on something else. So it could have either existed or not existed, and could have existed in a different way. A pen, tree, human, and the universe itself are all contingent. For example, the universe depends on 1) being caused in the first place, 2) the substituent parts that make it up (matter, time, space, etc), and 3) variation; it could have existed a different way or not at all The universe is contingent—it draws its qualities from these preceding factors. The atheist argues that all reality is built ONLY upon contingent things, as a non contingent thing must be independent of anything else and be self-existent. In other words, God. Let’s see if the atheist perspective—a reality built only on contingent things—can be possible. We know the universe itself is contingent. These are the possible options that it could be dependent on: 1) a finite chain of other contingent realities (CR) 2) an infinite chain of other CR or 3) A non contingent reality (NCR) then any number of CR, if any. The first option can’t work. Since a CR depends on something for its existence, in the absence of such a thing, the CR couldn’t exist. In a finite chain, the first CR’s conditions aren’t fulfilled. It has nothing to depend on, and couldn’t exist. Thus, the chain as a whole collapses, resulting in the current CR (the universe) to also lose its conditions and cease to exist. Since the universe does exist, option 1 is impossible. See 1 —> 3 in the diagram below:
Well, what if the chain was circular, in that the first CR depends on the last CR? This is also impossible. All points on the circle are contingent on the one before it, and thus it loops back to being contingent on itself. This means that all CR(x) in the chain are dependent on themselves, which contradict their own nature. Arguing for a circular chain of CR actually adds to the necessity of a NCR, a self-existent and independent reality.
Okay then what about option 2, an infinite chain of CR? This is also impossible. Each CR on the infinite chain is dependent on another CR. But any specific CR doesn’t have its own *actual* existence. Since CR(x) depends on the one before it, and so on infinitely, there doesn’t exist a true CR with its conditions fulfilled, and consequently there is no CR to allow for a following one to exist. It’s the same as summing together an infinite number of 0’s—the sum is still 0. An infinite regress of CR means none of their contingencies are met, and none can exist. Imagine having a jar of infinite marbles. The chances of pulling one out is 1/infinity, which is 0.
This means you could never single out one specific marble. In the same way, you could never single out one CR to cause, or depend on, another CR. Since the universe exists, this option cannot be possible either. This leaves us with the last option: a NCR must exist. The qualities of such a NCR must be: independent, self-existent, and one. It must be one because if there were many, it introduces a variable that needs explanation: what differs them? If there are differences, they all become contingent on what caused them to differ. So the NCR, which must exist as a logical necessity, is independent, self-existent, and one. In the Quran: “Say He, Allah, is One. Allah, the Self-Existent. He begets not, nor is He begotten, and there is none equal to Him.” The definition of the NCR is the definition of God.
So what do atheists say?
1) The universe is not contingent -This is just false. Nothing else to say
2) The universe is contingent on the multiverse -The “multiverse” would still be contingent as it has specific qualities that need explanation
3) God is contingent because He has specific qualities, such as justice, wisdom, or location -These qualities are contingent on Himself.
Let me explain. The greatest attribute of God is Oneness. This is why the message of all the prophets is monotheism. His Oneness alone is what is non contingent, uncreated, independent From a mathematical perspective, anything that is itself, is one, because the number 1 is the only true unit. All other numbers have value *because* they are referenced to 1. But what gives value to 1? Itself—it is independent. It’s the explanation for all numbers while not requiring an explanation for itself. God’s Oneness is the same. He is transcendent from all things—logic, concepts, natures. All is contingent on Him, including specific attributes He has chosen for Himself. Islamically, we know this to be true, as it’s narrated in an authentic hadith that God said: “O my servants, I have forbidden injustice for Myself and I have forbidden it among you.” This tells us His quality of justice is contingent on Himself—He chose injustice to be forbidden, a mercy to us. It didn't have to be that way.
In conclusion, the argument states: -there must exist a NCR—God—in order for contingent things to exist -contingent things exist -therefore, God must exist If you don’t want to call the NCR God, fine. You can say this instead:
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I posted this on a previous thread but I'm going to go ahead and post it again for the lovely @Steamdevolopment in defense of God's existence.
We’re going to walk through a series of simple and true premises. From them comes a true conclusion: there *must* exist an independent, singular, necessary being:
First, let’s define contingency. A contingent reality is a reality that depends on something else. So it could have either existed or not existed, and could have existed in a different way. A pen, tree, human, and the universe itself are all contingent. For example, the universe depends on 1) being caused in the first place, 2) the substituent parts that make it up (matter, time, space, etc), and 3) variation; it could have existed a different way or not at all The universe is contingent—it draws its qualities from these preceding factors. The atheist argues that all reality is built ONLY upon contingent things, as a non contingent thing must be independent of anything else and be self-existent. In other words, God. Let’s see if the atheist perspective—a reality built only on contingent things—can be possible. We know the universe itself is contingent. These are the possible options that it could be dependent on: 1) a finite chain of other contingent realities (CR) 2) an infinite chain of other CR or 3) A non contingent reality (NCR) then any number of CR, if any. The first option can’t work. Since a CR depends on something for its existence, in the absence of such a thing, the CR couldn’t exist. In a finite chain, the first CR’s conditions aren’t fulfilled. It has nothing to depend on, and couldn’t exist. Thus, the chain as a whole collapses, resulting in the current CR (the universe) to also lose its conditions and cease to exist. Since the universe does exist, option 1 is impossible. See 1 —> 3 in the diagram below:
Well, what if the chain was circular, in that the first CR depends on the last CR? This is also impossible. All points on the circle are contingent on the one before it, and thus it loops back to being contingent on itself. This means that all CR(x) in the chain are dependent on themselves, which contradict their own nature. Arguing for a circular chain of CR actually adds to the necessity of a NCR, a self-existent and independent reality.
Okay then what about option 2, an infinite chain of CR? This is also impossible. Each CR on the infinite chain is dependent on another CR. But any specific CR doesn’t have its own *actual* existence. Since CR(x) depends on the one before it, and so on infinitely, there doesn’t exist a true CR with its conditions fulfilled, and consequently there is no CR to allow for a following one to exist. It’s the same as summing together an infinite number of 0’s—the sum is still 0. An infinite regress of CR means none of their contingencies are met, and none can exist. Imagine having a jar of infinite marbles. The chances of pulling one out is 1/infinity, which is 0.
This means you could never single out one specific marble. In the same way, you could never single out one CR to cause, or depend on, another CR. Since the universe exists, this option cannot be possible either. This leaves us with the last option: a NCR must exist. The qualities of such a NCR must be: independent, self-existent, and one. It must be one because if there were many, it introduces a variable that needs explanation: what differs them? If there are differences, they all become contingent on what caused them to differ. So the NCR, which must exist as a logical necessity, is independent, self-existent, and one. In the Quran: “Say He, Allah, is One. Allah, the Self-Existent. He begets not, nor is He begotten, and there is none equal to Him.” The definition of the NCR is the definition of God.
So what do atheists say?
1) The universe is not contingent -This is just false. Nothing else to say
2) The universe is contingent on the multiverse -The “multiverse” would still be contingent as it has specific qualities that need explanation
3) God is contingent because He has specific qualities, such as justice, wisdom, or location -These qualities are contingent on Himself.
Let me explain. The greatest attribute of God is Oneness. This is why the message of all the prophets is monotheism. His Oneness alone is what is non contingent, uncreated, independent From a mathematical perspective, anything that is itself, is one, because the number 1 is the only true unit. All other numbers have value *because* they are referenced to 1. But what gives value to 1? Itself—it is independent. It’s the explanation for all numbers while not requiring an explanation for itself. God’s Oneness is the same. He is transcendent from all things—logic, concepts, natures. All is contingent on Him, including specific attributes He has chosen for Himself. Islamically, we know this to be true, as it’s narrated in an authentic hadith that God said: “O my servants, I have forbidden injustice for Myself and I have forbidden it among you.” This tells us His quality of justice is contingent on Himself—He chose injustice to be forbidden, a mercy to us. It didnt have to be that way.
In conclusion, the argument states: -there must exist a NCR—God—in order for contingent things to exist -contingent things exist -therefore, God must exist If you don’t want to call the NCR God, fine. You can say this instead:
Amazing logic. This entire post explains that Allah is:
- First and nothing was before him.
- Everything depends on him while he depends on nothing since everything else outside of him can not exist without him existing first.
- Self sustaining
- Ever lasting and will exist even if everything in the universe vanishes since he is not dependent on anything.
This is what I get from your post saxib. Hope Steamdevelopment has a brain that can sustain the fireworks and depth of your post. Hope she can understand a well written logic train and can rebut what you posted with meaningful thoughts of hers.
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It's cowardice to hide your beliefs once you leave the family home. Be honest.
At least you accept atheism is an organized religion people can join. Members must be loyal to their faith and express desire to be recognized as such.
Cool.
I got more respect for an honest ex muslim than a fake muslim
SOMALI GENERAL
VIP
You're free to believe what you want.
It depends on your perspective. VxR mentioned some good reasons to avoid sharing your thoughts and beliefs with your parents when you are in disagreement.
One has to weigh the benefits of declaring their non-beliefs to their parents. What is the advantage they gain in doing so while still under the care of their parents who are honest believers? How harmful is their belief system(the parents) when it is telling them to raise you well, and how well they treat you will lead to their creator rewarding them accordingly?
In all honesty, lack of belief happens among somali youth when they are dealing with emptiness in their heart and they have little or no knowledge of the religion of their Somali parents.
I found no logical explanation in all the years I have been reading Somali atheist reasons for disbelief. It boils down to ignorance of Islam and life style. There is no logic to their argument, so Why should they bother their honest loving parents with their confusion?
Somali parents in the west have enough already messing up with their life. A kind son or daughter adds zero burden to that difficult life already.
AarHawd_7
North-West, London
''I have admitted to my Mum that I am a atheist''
As hard as it is what Somali parent would want a gaal son or daughter? Or even keep them in their lives? I can not believe a Somali mum would accept her son or daughter to become gaal and be OK with it. Impossible.
Our parents would chose Allah swt over us, not the other way round. Wallahi Somalis in the west are finished gays, lesbians, atheists, rapists, hoes. We are truely finished.
As hard as it is what Somali parent would want a gaal son or daughter? Or even keep them in their lives? I can not believe a Somali mum would accept her son or daughter to become gaal and be OK with it. Impossible.
Our parents would chose Allah swt over us, not the other way round. Wallahi Somalis in the west are finished gays, lesbians, atheists, rapists, hoes. We are truely finished.
You can also say this is Allah's Qaddar. It cuts both ways. A question Muslims must ask themselves is:
- Is everyone destined to be one who submits themselves to the will of their creator and will become or remain a believer? Quran says not everyone will accept Allah as their creator through their freewill. Whilst I can understand the heartbreak of a somali parent unable to deal with the gaalnimo status of their child, those who are educated and have deep faith will instead pray and advise their kid to the best of their ability hoping someday they will see the light.
Good examples to remember and follow for these Somali parents are:
- Prophet Noah whose son refused to escape with him and opted to remain with the disbelievers declaring that he could beat the odds and was smarter than God. He was doomed through his choice and Noah pbuh accepted the fate of his son though he was saddened as a parent.
- Prophet Lut pbuh lost his wife to disbelief
- Prophet mohamed pbuh mentioned how his father was in hell after someone repeatedly asked the status of their parents. The prophet didn't like the question and ignored it several times, when the person did not stop asking, he replied "yours and mine are in hell". That is when it was revealed in the Quran that sometimes it is better not to ask questions for which their answers will not make us happy.
Bottom line, it is not guaranteed that children and relatives will follow the foot steps of their parents. This works both in good ways and bad ways. A parent can be a disbeliever and his children can become best believers. A parent can be a good Muslim and his children become disbelievers.
Best option always is to pray for those we care about including ourselves and that Allah shows us what is good for us. Our knowledge and power are limited as human begins and faith is a gift given to those who are lucky, and to those who SEEK THE TRUTH because Allah promised to help those who seek the truth in him.
If he/she was twerkin or tellin jokes i would be better than bashing folks believes
Tukraq
VIP
lowly europeans and atheism lol, truely a cursed continent
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