Protests In Iran after Woman is Beat To Death by police for Improper Hijab.

[Hamzza]

They're the oldest and the most prestigious Sunni theological school that exists today. And unlike you literalists who pass on takfeer like the water you think, they follow the clear religious guidance on when to declare someone or a group to be apostates.

So sunni Imams Ash Shaafici, Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Bukhari and Ahmed Bin Hanbal are all literalists you rafidi.

Head Office of al-Azhar University:


In the name of Allah, the Benefient, the Merciful


Text of the Verdict (Fatwa) Issued by His Excellency Shaikh al-Akbar Mahmood Shaltoot, Head of the al-Azhar University, on Permissibility of Following "al-Shi’a al- Imamiyyah”School of Thought


His Excellency was asked:


Some believe that, for a Muslim to have religiously correct worship and dealing, it is necessary to follow one of the four known schools of thought, whereas, "al-Shi’a al-Imamiyyah”school of thought is not one of them nor "al-Shi’a al-Zaidiyyah.”Do your Excellency agree with this opinion, and prohibit following "al-Shi’a al-Imamiyyah al-Ithna Ashariyyah”school of thought, for example?


His Excellency replied:


1) Islam does not require a Muslim to follow a particular Madh’hab (school of thought). Rather, we say: every Muslim has the right to follow one of the schools of thought which has been correctly narrated and its verdicts have been compiled in its books. And, everyone who is following such Madhahib (schools of thought) can transfer to another school, and there shall be no crime on him for doing so.


2) The Ja’fari school of thought, which is also known as "al-Shi’a al- Imamiyyah al-Ithna Ashariyyah”(i.e., The Twelver Imami Shi’ites) is a school of thought that is religiously correct to follow in worship as are other Sunni schools of thought.


Muslims must know this, and ought to refrain from unjust prejudice to any particular school of thought, since the religion of Allah and His Divine Law (Shari’ah) was never restricted to a particular school of thought. Their jurists (Mujtahidoon) are accepted by Almighty Allah, and it is permissible to the "non-Mujtahid”to follow them and to accord with their teaching whether in worship (Ibadaat) or transactions (Mu’amilaat).


Signed,
Mahmood Shaltoot.

As we told you Jafari is a Fiqh Madhab School. The fatwa you shared is saying Sunnis can follow the Jafari Madhab. This doesn't make the Shiite(Twelvers&Ismailis) who follow the Jafari school Muslims.

 

[kazamama]

Iran is the only country in the Muslim world giving arms and teaching how to make missiles to the beleaguered Sunni Muslims in Palestine. The rest of the Sunni Muslim world has become useless.

Iran under Shah supported Somalia during the 1977 war with Ethiopia. And when President Carter refused to provide arms to Somalia as former Saudi King Khaled Bin Abdul-Aziz (ahun), former Egyptian President Mohamed Anwar Al-Saddat, and Iranian President Mohamed Shah requested the US to do so, the Iranian President was the only one who protested that decision.

Under the current Iranian clergy, Iranians supported the Somalis who faced famine in Somalia.

But of course, your dhagax hubby never thought you that and you were solely focused on the bogus 'feminism' that you didn't care about learning what different Iranian rulers did for Somalis.

Iran is also helping the butcher Assad kill Sunni Muslims in Syria.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Head Office of al-Azhar University:


In the name of Allah, the Benefient, the Merciful


Text of the Verdict (Fatwa) Issued by His Excellency Shaikh al-Akbar Mahmood Shaltoot, Head of the al-Azhar University, on Permissibility of Following "al-Shi’a al- Imamiyyah”School of Thought


His Excellency was asked:


Some believe that, for a Muslim to have religiously correct worship and dealing, it is necessary to follow one of the four known schools of thought, whereas, "al-Shi’a al-Imamiyyah”school of thought is not one of them nor "al-Shi’a al-Zaidiyyah.”Do your Excellency agree with this opinion, and prohibit following "al-Shi’a al-Imamiyyah al-Ithna Ashariyyah”school of thought, for example?


His Excellency replied:


1) Islam does not require a Muslim to follow a particular Madh’hab (school of thought). Rather, we say: every Muslim has the right to follow one of the schools of thought which has been correctly narrated and its verdicts have been compiled in its books. And, everyone who is following such Madhahib (schools of thought) can transfer to another school, and there shall be no crime on him for doing so.


2) The Ja’fari school of thought, which is also known as "al-Shi’a al- Imamiyyah al-Ithna Ashariyyah”(i.e., The Twelver Imami Shi’ites) is a school of thought that is religiously correct to follow in worship as are other Sunni schools of thought.


Muslims must know this, and ought to refrain from unjust prejudice to any particular school of thought, since the religion of Allah and His Divine Law (Shari’ah) was never restricted to a particular school of thought. Their jurists (Mujtahidoon) are accepted by Almighty Allah, and it is permissible to the "non-Mujtahid”to follow them and to accord with their teaching whether in worship (Ibadaat) or transactions (Mu’amilaat).


Signed,
Mahmood Shaltoot.

This is nothing but sheeko xariir, isis, alqaeda, al shabab etc all of them follow one of the 4 madhabs, so according to you there’s nothing wrong with following the above groups ?

Believing in 12 infallible imams, cursing the wives of the Prophet ﷺ His companions, practising mutah, believing Quran is distorted, killing sunnis etc all of it is fine according to you ?

Aqeedah wise twelvers have more extremism & deviation than any sunni khawarij groups. There’s no comparison at all, Iran today is majority shia because of mass killing & forced conversions of sunni carried out by the ruling Shia starting from the 16th century

 

[Oday-yar]

You can't force religion on people, Allah says it so in the Qu'ran. There is nothing Islamic about murdering women for not wearing hijab. These people know nothing about Islam and it's showing.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

uff iranians, they are stifling women and it turns into this. Imagine being killed over some of your hair showing.

Now men and women alike are protesting and women are throwing their “hijabs” off. It’s the 21st century and this heathen shias can’t get a grip. Ayatollah, warya there is no such a thing as ordained. Fix up or find out.

Not everyone who supports you comes from the same ideological standpoint as you. This woman is clearly using the injustice of what happened to champion her cause. Look at some of her other posts

She champions for freedom of religion, right to criticize islam and to achieve this she will use any societal injustice as a stepping stone to do just that. So even though we do agree that the incident with the girl is tragic we nonetheless don't share the same views and will see things differently

Hijab is an object of oppression and tyranny to her, while islam it's an obligation on women, how can there be any sort of alignment to what institutes injustice when her ideology presumes that islam itself is the source of injustice that women face ?


Furthermore she selectively portrays the incident as just a women's issue when in reality it's much more than that. The girl who got killed was kurdish and the iranian regime cracks down on them severely because they're ethnic minority who also happen to be sunni.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

May Allah SWT grant the sister jannatul firdaws, forgive her sins and accept all of her good deeds

Ameen thumma Ameen

 

[ImanStan001]

I stated in another thread that dictatorships shouldn’t dictate religion. Who gave them the right to rule for an eternity ?

 

[ImanStan001]

I don't believe she was only killed because she failed to wear the hijab. But you, the OP, and other Somalis from failed state of Somalia are not in a position to pass judgements on a nation (Iran) whose leaders and people stood up for their beliefs and country and kept the West at bay.

The Western powers have sanctioned Iran every way they can, and it looks like the so-called bogus 'women's rights' that the Western imperialists hide behind is the last option. You aint an Iranian and have no business to pass judgements on a nation whose people and government are doing far better than yours.

You sound like an al shabab member, I hope we Somali women will never get killed for not wearing a scarf in Somalia , funnily enough if we walked in Somalia looking like Iranian women we would be insulted and said we’re naked , so I suppose IRAN is not implementing proper hijab

 

[Man with a garuun]

This is nothing but sheeko xariir, isis, alqaeda, al shabab etc all of them follow one of the 4 madhabs, so according to you there’s nothing wrong with following the above groups ? Believing in 12 infallible imams, cursing the wives of the Prophet ﷺ His companions, practising mutah, believing Quran is distorted, killing sunnis etc all of it is fine according to you ? Aqeedah wise twelvers have more extremism & deviation than any sunni khawarij groups. There’s no comparison at all, Iran today is majority shia because of mass killing & forced conversions of sunni carried out by the ruling Shia starting from the 16th century

I agree all of the points you raised on the Shia who do it. Now, my question is, are they outside of Islam? The ulema has deliberated on these topics, and while what they do is wrong and horrible and shouldn't be accepted, those items don't take them out of the fold of Islam. Declaring someone a non-Muslim - when they believe in Allah (sw) is one, that Prophet Muhhammad (sacw) is his last messenger, carry out the daily prayers, fast Ramadan, and go to the hajj, and believe in the last day - is different than their attacks and insults on the companions (ra) of the Prophet (sacw) and 1 of the wives (ra) of the Prophet (sacw).

Azhar is Musqul

Reer Al-Saluul aka followers of Ibn Wahhab are attacking Al-Azhar. You lack basic theological knowledge and are a vehicle used by enemies of Islam.

 

[Taij4an]

carry out the daily prayers, fast Ramadan, and go to the hajj, and believe in the last day

do they pray properly
do they fast properly
do they do hajj properly
do they believe in the last day described in the Quran or sunnah or make up their own beliefs?

 

[Man with a garuun]

@Hamzza @Sajid @AdoonkaAlle:

I have a simple question for you: If the Ja'fari Shia are non-Muslims as some of you have claimed, why are they still allowed to go the hajj and perform this important one of the pillars of Islam? Certainly, a non-Muslim can't be allowed to join the Muslims and perform this important religious duty.

I wait for your answer.

 

[Man with a garuun]

You sound like an al shabab member, I hope we Somali women will never get killed for not wearing a scarf in Somalia , funnily enough if we walked in Somalia looking like Iranian women we would be insulted and said we’re naked , so I suppose IRAN is not implementing proper hijab

I just hope and pray people like you to never set foot in Somalia.

 

[AllStarSaciid]

You sound like an al shabab member, I hope we Somali women will never get killed for not wearing a scarf in Somalia , funnily enough if we walked in Somalia looking like Iranian women we would be insulted and said we’re naked , so I suppose IRAN is not implementing proper hijab

The times when Somali women walked around without hijabs is long gone.

 

[ImanStan001]

The times when Somali women walked around without hijabs is long gone.

Of course it is, do we want to get stoned to death by a bunch of low iq xoolos .

I hope Somalia becomes CIVILISED ENOUGH so we can walk around like Iranian women

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

I agree all of the points you raised on the Shia who do it. Now, my question is, are they outside of Islam? The ulema has deliberated on these topics, and while what they do is wrong and horrible and shouldn't be accepted, those items don't take them out of the fold of Islam. Declaring someone a non-Muslim - when they believe in Allah (sw) is one, that Prophet Muhhammad (sacw) is his last messenger, carry out the daily prayers, fast Ramadan, and go to the hajj, and believe in the last day - is different than their attacks and insults on the companions (ra) of the Prophet (sacw) and 1 of the wives (ra) of the Prophet (sacw).






Reer Al-Saluul aka followers of Ibn Wahhab are attacking Al-Azhar. You lack basic theological knowledge and are a vehicle used by enemies of Islam.

If you agree with those points then why would you put the following in bold

The Ja’fari school of thought, which is also known as "al-Shi’a al- Imamiyyah al-Ithna Ashariyyah”(i.e., The Twelver Imami Shi’ites) is a school of thought that is religiously correct to follow in worship as are other Sunni schools of thought.

Could clarify for us what exactly about twelver theology is religious correct to follow in worship ? Do you have any idea what they believe about their imams ? they’ve defied these imams and Ali AS, giving them divine attributes etc all of this kufr & shirk

Their deviation in aqeedah is far worse and can’t be compared to that of sunnis. Any person that claims that it’s correct to follow twelver aqeedah is either unaware, ignorant or misguided.

I’ve not once talked about takfir etc just called you out on your contradiction & double standards when it relates to the deviation of twelver theology. You went even as far to fetch for a fatwa to support twelver shisim why is this ?
Even now you continue to support them why ? They’re people who agree with the ideology of alqaeda, isis etc that do everything you listed above what then ?

Whether they do all of what you mentioned has no bearing on the fact that what they believe in their theology is wrong. I agree that people shouldn’t rush to takfeer but this doesn’t mean that we can’t call out religious misguidance or that takfeer isn’t allowed in Islam.

Twelver Shia in their books make mass takfir on sunnis simply based on the fact that we sunnis don’t believe in their imams. The same shia were the same ones killing sunnis in Iraq simply because they were called umar, uthman, Abubakr.

In Tehran there’s not a single sunni masjid but you can find synagogue and churches. Why is this do you think ?

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

@Hamzza @Sajid @AdoonkaAlle:

I have a simple question for you: If the Ja'fari Shia are non-Muslims as some of you have claimed, why are they still allowed to go the hajj and perform this important one of the pillars of Islam? Certainly, a non-Muslim can't be allowed to join the Muslims and perform this important religious duty.

I wait for your answer.

I’ll reiterate again I never once stated they were never were muslim simply discussed about their theology. As far as making blanket takfeer on all twelver shia then this is something that can’t be justified as not all shias believe in what their ayatollahs believe in, some are just complete ignorant of their theology etc.

Furthermore ulama distinguish between the lay people and scholars especially when it comes to making takfeer. That’s why it’s important to not rush to making takfeer.


Unless they outwardly announce their true beliefs it’s impossible to monitor who’s muslim or not. They’ve been plenty of instances of gaalo & even murtadeen who went to hajj.

 

[Man with a garuun]

If you agree with those points then why would you put the following in bold

The Ja’fari school of thought, which is also known as "al-Shi’a al- Imamiyyah al-Ithna Ashariyyah”(i.e., The Twelver Imami Shi’ites) is a school of thought that is religiously correct to follow in worship as are other Sunni schools of thought.

Could clarify for us what exactly about twelver theology is religious correct to follow in worship ? Do you have any idea what they believe about their imams ? they’ve defied these imams and Ali AS, giving them divine attributes etc all of this kufr & shirk

Their deviation in aqeedah is far worse and can’t be compared to that of sunnis. Any person that claims that it’s correct to follow twelver aqeedah is either unaware, ignorant or misguided.

I’ve not once talked about takfir etc just called you out on your contradiction & double standards when it relates to the deviation of twelver theology. You went even as far to fetch for a fatwa to support twelver shisim why is this ?
Even now you continue to support them why ? They’re people who agree with the ideology of alqaeda, isis etc that do everything you listed above what then ?

Whether they do all of what you mentioned has no bearing on the fact that what they believe in their theology is wrong. I agree that people shouldn’t rush to takfeer but this doesn’t mean that we can’t call out religious misguidance or that takfeer isn’t allowed in Islam.

Twelver Shia in their books make mass takfir on sunnis simply based on the fact that we sunnis don’t believe in their imams. The same shia were the same ones killing sunnis in Iraq simply because they were called umar, uthman, Abubakr.

In Tehran there’s not a single sunni masjid but you can find synagogue and churches. Why is this do you think ?

I shared a fatwa from Al-Azhar. That was Sheikh Al-Akbar Mahmood Shaltoot who issued that fatwa in the 1950s. I shared it because your friends @Hamzza and @Sajid have been declaring them (Jafari Shia) as apostates. The discussion has never been whether we agree with their aqeadah and their attacks on sahabahs and their ridiculous attacks on the mother of the believers Umm Aisha (ra). No Sunni Muslim agrees with what they do. That has not been the discussion.

The discussion has been whether they are regarded as outside of the fold of Islam or within the fold of Islam. My assertion has been the ulema consensus is they are within the fold of Islam despite their constant attacks on some of the companions of the Prophet (sacw) and Umm Aisha (ra). And @Hamzza and @Sajid are saying they're outside of the fold of Islam. I was then telling these 2 gentlemen that there is no scholarly consensus on that takfeer.

 

[Man with a garuun]

Unless they outwardly announce their true beliefs it’s impossible to monitor who’s muslim or not. They’ve been plenty of instances of gaalo & even murtadeen who went to hajj.

For every Hajj season, the Saudi authorities allocate quota to all Muslim countries for the number of people with visas who can send their Muslims who want to perform the Hajj. The Saudi authorities don't say to the Iranian rulers you can only send the Ahlul-Sunna. They say you can send these number of Muslims for the Hajj. They do the same thing for Somalia, Egypt, and all other Muslim countries and non-Muslim countries who have Muslim population such as the West.
That alone should prove that ulema sees Jafari Shia as Muslims.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

I shared a fatwa from Al-Azhar. That was Sheikh Al-Akbar Mahmood Shaltoot who issued that fatwa in the 1950s. I shared it because your friends @Hamzza and @Sajid have been declaring them (Jafari Shia) as apostates. The discussion has never been whether we agree with their aqeadah and their attacks on sahabahs and their ridiculous attacks on the mother of the believers Umm Aisha (ra). No Sunni Muslim agrees with what they do. That has not been the discussion.

The discussion has been whether they are regarded as outside of the fold of Islam or within the fold of Islam. My assertion has been the ulema consensus is they are within the fold of Islam despite their constant attacks on some of the companions of the Prophet (sacw) and Umm Aisha (ra). And @Hamzza and @Sajid are saying they're outside of the fold of Islam. I was then telling these 2 gentlemen that there is no scholarly consensus on that takfeer.

This is how you debate with them started sxb, hamza didn’t declare takfir

What Islam is there in Iran?

Not a good version, but they still claim to be Muslims, that is why they receive a lot of hate from the western media.

They follow the Ja'fari theology in Shia Islam. The consensus amongst the Muslim scholarship is the Ja'fari Muslims are within the fold of Islam.

Only after they noticed your defence of the shia did it turn to debate of takfeer. You diverted the discussion to one of takfir so as to not be questioned about your advocacy for twelver shism

You shared that fatwa because it affirmed the validity of following twelver theology & there’s no problem with any Muslim following it. It had nothing to do with proving them to be muslims but validating their theology. The questions itself states

Text of the Verdict (Fatwa) Issued by His Excellency Shaikh al-Akbar Mahmood Shaltoot, Head of the al-Azhar University, on Permissibility of Following "al-Shi’a al- Imamiyyah”School of Thought

This is was why you shared it, to prove that twelver theology is considered to be among the correct schools of thought. So in essence that fatwa affirms not only are twelvers muslims but that they’re also upon the correct path

If it was just about them being Muslims you wouldn’t fetch for a fatwa that proves that what they’re upon was correct would you now ? Why would you cite a fatwa that states that their theology is correct if you disagree with it ?

There’s ijma that slandering Aisha RA by accusing her of zina is kufr and the one who does that is considered a kafir. The reason being this amount to rejecting the ayah in the Quran 24:17 where Allah proved her innocence.

That’s just one issue mind you, what about the rest, according to their hadith books majority of sahabah become apostates except for 3.

How is it that you find takfeer of shias problematic but when they make takfeer of Sunnis you’re not bothered by it ? alqaeda is bad but ayatollahs aren’t ?

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

For every Hajj season, the Saudi authorities allocate quota to all Muslim countries for the number of people with visas who can send their Muslims who want to perform the Hajj. The Saudi authorities don't say to the Iranian rulers you can only send the Ahlul-Sunna. They say you can send these number of Muslims for the Hajj. They do the same thing for Somalia, Egypt, and all other Muslim countries and non-Muslim countries who have Muslim population such as the West.
That alone should prove that ulema sees Jafari Shia as Muslims.

Again this doesn’t negate the fact that there exists some among them who hold beliefs of kufr and shirk that negate their emaan. You’re conflating a number of issues here especially with regards to takfeer.

In reality only Allah knows the hearts of people we can only judge people when they display their actions & beliefs outwardly. The basic principle is to treat them as muslim unless one sees actions that prove otherwise.

We don’t hasten to takfeer nor claim that it’s doesn’t exist in Islam.