It was Somalis inhabiting these cities. Not only was Sarapion mentioned in the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, it was also mentioned by Ptolemy in his atlas titled Geography. These are not hunter gatherers.
Mogadishu and Adal controlled Madagascar [proof]
- Thread starter killerxsmoke
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tunni, dabarre and other digil clans. You're correct that hawiye are from the north but hawiye are not the only people in the south saxib. Everyone forgets the indgenous people of the riverlands
Garaad diinle
Yaab yaab indeed your telling me Socotra and the swahili?
History could've easily played differently and the outcome would have been intreesting regardless. It appears that northern somalis of bari experiense a period of expansion every couple of centuries because of thier population increase. When the carrying capacity is surpassed they radiate into the world. In futuh al-habasha there is a tribe called al harti that come from the coast and participated in the futuh.
Now there is this oromo tiktokar who as i heard identifys as oromo and nothing else though they are not any type of oromo they are ashraf oromo.
Here is a tiktok about there ashraf lineage.
shorturl.at/qEQ06
As you've seen they are of the harti of the 16th century but they don't belong
to Dhulbahante harti, Dishishe harti, Warsangali harti or Majeerteen harti. Sadly they now identify as oromo. There are some other people of bari that live in the coast of eritrea but they've also lost their somali identity.
Garaad diinle
Well they might have originaly lived in the norh but your map, that was made by al idrisi
should have marked the al hawiya somewhere in marka. In fact ibn said wrote that marka is
thier headquarters. Now these hawiya are most likely ajuran and the british colonial
rulers of modern day kenya called the ajuran of kenya a hawiya tribe. Bimal further state
that they kicked the ajuran from marka.
Hamzza
VIP
It seems Immigration was the solution to every problem/crisis in Bari and Mudug historically.
>Xaaji Cali Majeerteen was forced to immigrate to Benadir with his followers after he lost his religious battles.
>Keenadiid was forced to immigrate to Hobyo with his supporters after he lost the battle.
>similarly Ahmed Gole of the Cumar Maxamuud was forced to immigrate to Ogadenia after religious disputes with minor Sheikhs.
That's why you will find Harti colonies in all over the Horn and the Middle East.
I found references for Harti settlers in Upper Jubba(Luuq region), Lower Jubba, Oman, Yemen, Djibouti, Eritrea, and Oromia(Bale & Hararghe).
I'm not dir and this is what I heard I don't even know the ethnic group they are part of but anyway when people are absorbed, they will of course forget the people they came from as has happened many times in history
Garaad diinle
Makes sense. This also aligns perfectly with what i've read about kismayu. The inhabitans from
the north an amalgamation of various harti tribes traveled through the sea, meanwhile another
group traveled through land. Traveling from the ogaden through gedo until they reached kismayu. There were also reports about some of them participating in the nfd expansion and
today you'll find them in Isiolo County along side other somalis.
“The northerners were better sailors than the south”
You’re bringing source from pre Islam when the south as well used to live in the northern .Example kanarle used to live northern during adal era (ahamed gurey was the leader also hawiye)
Day 3 of me waiting for you to give me the source that somali sailors in the north going to india had songs about them
Yemen was heavily dependent on Berbera. 80% of Aden's revenue came from Berbera in 1848 according to the British and Berbera was considered the most valuable port on what was called the Arabian gulf (the gulf of Aden).This man hates us so much (Isaaq)
This is not real and just an obsession to make himself like the great peoples. The Malays got there because they are great sailors Although we are closer to there Africans are not good sailors
Soon these nationalists will claim Yemen as theirs
My maternal great grandmother (Nuux Cumar Warsangeli) who was born in the late 19th century/early 20th century and passed away in 2003 was a very very very racist individual. Her charm, charisma and influence were beyond imagination. She would call every one who wasn't a Somali especially the Arabs baranbaro to their faces and she would often attempt to explain the word. She was so courageous that she responded when some Arabs told her once (we are all slaves of Allah) in attempt to defuse a situation with her broken but majestic Arabic (talk about yourselves you filthy Arab Somalis ain't nobody's slaves) which is considered to be kufur and an act punishable by death. I know what she said was haram and wrong but that's how the minds of the early 1900s Somalis operated so I wasn't surprised when I read that Somalis felt (unjustifiably sometimes) superior to every one including the white man. She got her Saudi citizenship back in the 1950s and when the person in charge of doing her paper work offered her to put a famous Arab tribe name as her surname so she could benefit from that tribe later on, she responded to his good gesture by smacking him with the closest stapler on his forehead she told him I am Somali you Baranbaro (I bet she is rolling in her grave right now because of the Ana Arab Somalis). What she did could've automatically resulted in the revoking of her citizenship since she committed a crime even before being a Saudi but she didn't give a flying f**k about it. He then assigned her Al Somali surname that almost all Saudi Somalis have today including my mother (we don't have it because my dad got his citizenship when he was 21 in 1979 so we ended up with Ahemd without an Al just like the last name my dad and awoowe had on their Kacaan passportThe Somalis back then considered and saw themselves as superior to anyone breathing the same air. We even have a special saying in Somali for that. Nowadays they worship colonial leaders and say things like, “wey naga aqli badanyihiin” don’t know if you saw that video
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They don’t make them like that no moreMy maternal great grandmother (Nuux Cumar Warsangeli) who was born in the late 19th century/early 20th century and passed away in 2003 was a very very very racist individual. Her charm, charisma and influence were beyond imagination. She would call every one who wasn't a Somali especially the Arabs baranbaro to their faces and she would often attempt to explain the word. She was so courageous that she responded when some Arabs told her once (we are all slaves of Allah) in attempt to defuse a situation with her broken but majestic Arabic (talk about yourselves you filthy Arab Somalis ain't nobody's slaves) which is considered to be kufur and an act punishable by death. I know what she said was haram and wrong but that's how the minds of the early 1900s Somalis operated so I wasn't surprised when I read that Somalis felt (unjustifiably sometimes) superior to every one including the white man. She got her Saudi citizenship back in the 1950s and when the person in charge of doing her paper work offered her to put a famous Arab tribe name as her surname so she could benefit from that tribe later on, she responded to his good gesture by smacking him with the closest stapler on his forehead she told him I am Somali you Baranbaro (I bet she is rolling in her grave right now because of the Ana Arab Somalis). What she did could've automatically resulted in the revoking of her citizenship since she committed a crime even before being a Saudi but she didn't give a flying f**k about it. He then assigned her Al Somali surname that almost all Saudi Somalis have today including my mother (we don't have it because my dad got his citizenship when he was 21 in 1979 so we ended up with Ahemd without an Al just like the last name my dad and awoowe had on their Kacaan passport
i have provided evidence, what more do u need
bro, one book of the 16-17th century ( the one of John Van linschoten) mentioning something in one sentence is not proof. (the other book of Barreto doesn't even mention a "conquest" but only that somali traders were in madagscar and Megister is unreliable), thats not how histography works. You need several sources and some archeological or/and genetical evidence too. Also some sources oral or written of the people of madagscar should also exists mentioning something important as the colonization of the island by a foreign force. Something as important and grandious as the conquest of a madagascar would be also remembered in the oral traditions of the somali too.i have provided evidence, what more do u need
Sky
hahey
The only Malagasy concerned by a possible Somali influence are some coastal people like the Antemoro, especially the Anteony(aristocrats) and Antalaotra(scribes, diplomats)clans as both claim being descendants of foreign Men of Islamic faith.That being said, they don't claim Somali ancestry but Arabian ancestry from Mecca. The Anakara subgroup of the Antalaotra even claim Arabian Jewish ancestry.i have provided evidence, what more do u need
Source
Their alphabet called sorabe is based on Arabic and there's a possible Javanese influence(Javanese Muslims had a script based on Arabic too). Apart from javanese, Bantu, Malay and Sanskrit influences are found in the Malagasy language but no trace Somali.
Sorabe alphabet
Now there's the genetic part. From this study Genetic study Antemoro
This graph show the Paternal haplogroups(Ydna) of the three different Antemoro clans. The Ampanabaka who constitute the majority are mainly of Bantu then Austronesian extraction. The Antalaotra and especially the Anteony lineages are in great part originally from the Middle East(J1, J2, T1) in accordance with their oral and written history. Those T1 could've been mediated by Northern Somalis(Dir, Ogaden..)though as this Y dna is found in high frequency up north but read this statement from the study:
"The Median-Joining network for T1 haplotypes links these lineages to Israel, Lebanon and Palestine. These results are also consistent with the low FST values between Anteony and Antalaotra and populations from Middle East/Southwest Asia. The combination of these two lineages (J1 and T1) tends to converge to an origin in the Persian Gulf or Middle East."
Given the presence of an Arabic derived alphabet amongst the Antemoro, their oral and written history claiming Arabian ancestry, genetic studies confirming it and debunking a huge Somali influence , he can't say Somalis ruled Madagascar lol. Only some Madagascar groups like the Antemoro assimilated significant foreign migrants by the way.
In another study, they found that only 1 out of 133 Malagasy individuals had a Somali lineage and he is from the coastal Antanosy ethnic group(1/52,less than 2%)living close to the Antemoro. Obvious middle Eastern lineages are more numerous:
"The geographic assignment of exact matching and neighboring haplotypes in the YHRD and in our database suggested for J2, R1a1, and R1b1 chromosomes a clear European-Near Eastern origin, for the E1b1b1a chromosome a Somali origin"
Genetic study Madagascar
Sorry to burst your bubble but the Somali contribution to the Malagasy people is very marginal. It's less important than the Austronesian,Bantu, later Javanese and Swahili waves, Arabian, Indian, French influences.
You misunderstood his point and method.
first he points out that there is a clear consensus amongst scholars that Madagascar has its name because marco polo linked it to mogadishu.
Then he brings up the german scholar, mesiger to explain why marco polo called it the same as Mogadishu.
Wich according to mesiger is mogadishu and adal conquered it and forced the people to use the name mogadishu wich explains marco polo’s action.
Then he brings up the dutch seafarer john linschoten who also says that mogadishu invaded it, just to add additional proof to the initial evidence wich is reasonable.
then he points out that there is already a clear consensus amongst all historians that mogadishu was physically IN CONTROL of sofala wich is literally opposite of Madagascar.
He also provides historical documents that clearly points out that somali traders were so dominantly present in Madagascar that the portuguese literally needed a naval force if they wished to stop it wich again add’s credibility to what the german scholar, mesiger wrote
Afterwards he points out that the military alliance between mogadishu and adal that mesiger writes about actually existed and continues to provide the historical documents to proof that wich as he points out add’s “again” credibility to the initial evidence wich is the the german work
Then he also points out that if anyone has any questions or doubts on if mogadishu or adal had such military capabilities that both Mogadishu and adal were fighting much bigger wars at that time and were winning them, clearly showcassing that they possessed the military means to do so. Wich add’s credibility to the german work.
Conclusion:
Your argument is flawed because his initial claim is that Madagascar has its name because in the past it was believed by european academics that mogadishu had invaded it and claimed sovereignty over Madagascar and renamed it after itself and thats why marco polo called it that. His whole method of providing evidences points towards that. He isn’t arguing if its true or not although he is suggesting it. He is arguing that Madagascar has its name because the europeans back then believed it was true so therefore the story of marco polo mistaking Madagascar for mogadishu is false and was “probably” made up by european colonialists in the early 1900s to deny somalis their history.
he obviously suggests that somalis controlled Madagascar but his whole thread is directed towards the naming of the island wich I believe he convincingly has proven to be because europeans believed that mogadishu controlled it. So if its true or not doesn’t matter in this case.
They already do, you haven't seen them claiming that Socotra Island belongs to Somalia? and that they will take it back? Delusional ppl wallahi, the same Somali government that can't even assert its dominance on land it already claimsThis man hates us so much (Isaaq)
This is not real and just an obsession to make himself like the great peoples. The Malays got there because they are great sailors Although we are closer to there Africans are not good sailors
Soon these nationalists will claim Yemen as theirs
