Mathow VS Somali

[Knowthyself]

If the Prophet (scw) marrying Aisha (ra) was an issue, the Quraish, other pagan Arabs, Jews etc who used to attack the Prophet (scw) in whatever capacity they could would've made a big deal out of it. Especially considering they wanted to character assassinate him (calling him a magician, madman, liar etc) so as to question the authenticity and legitimacy of the Qur'an and the message of Islam. But they didn't. Not a word. What does that tell you?

Besides, people who accept and promote sodomy and other filth have no moral ground to stand on.

that it was prevalent in their culture, thats what that tells me. it happens TODAY and nobody bats an eye.

being gay is worse then pedophillia? lmao muslims man

 

[Tramo]

"Test the orphans until they reach the age of marriage, and then if you find them mature of mind hand over to them their property, and do not eat it up by either spending extravagantly or in haste, fearing that they would grow up (and claim it). If the guardian of the orphan is rich let him abstain entirely (from his ward's property); and if he is poor, let him partake of it in a fair measure. When you hand over their property to them let there be witnesses on their behalf. Allah is sufficient to take account (of your deeds)." (4:6)

so the #1 criteria in Islam for an orphan to take control of their finances when they become an adult is to be of marriageable age. marriageable age is clearly equated to adulthood and maturity...unless yall think kids were handed over their inheritances like candy

so unless u think the Prophet was circumventing what Allah said, there are only 2 conclusions u can draw. either 9 year olds were mature enough to be considered adults in ancient Arabia 1.5 millennia ago ...or Aisha wasn't actually 9 years old. there's evidence for both being true tbh

 

[Knowthyself]

"Test the orphans until they reach the age of marriage, and then if you find them mature of mind hand over to them their property, and do not eat it up by either spending extravagantly or in haste, fearing that they would grow up (and claim it). If the guardian of the orphan is rich let him abstain entirely (from his ward's property); and if he is poor, let him partake of it in a fair measure. When you hand over their property to them let there be witnesses on their behalf. Allah is sufficient to take account (of your deeds)." (4:6)

so the #1 criteria in Islam for an orphan to take control of their finances when they become an adult is to be of marriageable age. marriageable age is clearly equated to adulthood and maturity...unless yall think kids were handed over their inheritances like candy

so unless u think the Prophet was circumventing what Allah said, there are only 2 conclusions u can draw. either 9 year olds were mature enough to be considered adults in ancient Arabia 1.5 millennia ago ...or Aisha wasn't actually 9 years old. there's evidence for both being true tbh

so i reiterate, if you believe certain hadiths are questionable, why believe anything it says?

 

[Tramo]

so i reiterate, if you believe certain hadiths are questionable, why believe anything it says?

the discrepancies come from the Sirah, and it's not uncommon for historians to be off with dates and events. even if u didn't believe in Islam, I would take the literal word of those closest to the Prophet than someone who wrote his biography hundreds of years later

maybe evidence was too strong a word for Aisha not being 9...but there are indications in the Sirah that point to that. bottom line is tho, she was definitely not a child

 

[Jjero]

"I go by Allahs Word" Ok if you go by Allah's word why do you neglect a passage in the most holy book in Islam after the Quran? If you accept instructions on how to pray in the Sahih Bukhari then why reject the passage where it said Muhammed married Aisha when she was 6 and consummated the marriage at 9? Its in the same book. Why do you pick and choose what you want to believe in. This is not my Opinion, this is the Sahih Bukhari you are rejecting which is a very un-islamic thing to do. It's very obvious you are shying away from these verses in the hadith because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Instead of trying to rationalise the irrational, open your eyes

I do reject it, Because Quran tells us that it is the last and final book and no book shall come after it. The Hadiths are not holy in anyway either. Technically, being a Muslim only requires you to believe in the Oneness of God and the messengership of Muhammad (pbuh), and the Qur'an being the Word of Allah. Not all the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) in the hadiths that we read are valid. Some have been falsely claimed to be sayings of the Prophet (pbuh).
You are ignoring my other comments though

 

[WiilWaalan]

I do reject it, Because Quran tells us that it is the last and final book and no book shall come after it. The Hadiths are not holy in anyway either. Technically, being a Muslim only requires you to believe in the Oneness of God and the messengership of Muhammad (pbuh), and the Qur'an being the Word of Allah. Not all the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) in the hadiths that we read are valid. Some have been falsely claimed to be sayings of the Prophet (pbuh).
You are ignoring my other comments though

So you don't believe in some passages of Sahih Bukhari, ok so we got that cleared up

 

[Knowthyself]

the discrepancies come from the Sirah, and it's not uncommon for historians to be off with dates and events. even if u didn't believe in Islam, I would take the literal word of those closest to the Prophet than someone who wrote his biography hundreds of years later

maybe evidence was too strong a word for Aisha not being 9...but there are indications in the Sirah that point to that. bottom line is tho, she was definitely not a child

its odd though that years later they would make that up from thin air.

 

[Jjero]

So you don't believe in some passages of Sahih Bukhari, ok so we got that cleared up

Idk why you're questioning my deen when you are the atheist here

 

[Knowthyself]

I do reject it, Because Quran tells us that it is the last and final book and no book shall come after it. The Hadiths are not holy in anyway either. Technically, being a Muslim only requires you to believe in the Oneness of God and the messengership of Muhammad (pbuh), and the Qur'an being the Word of Allah. Not all the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) in the hadiths that we read are valid. Some have been falsely claimed to be sayings of the Prophet (pbuh).
You are ignoring my other comments though

so you dont follow the hadiths?

 

[WiilWaalan]

Idk why you're questioning my deen when you are the atheist here

Why do you assume i'm an atheist? I have some small objections in Sahih bukhari but thats it.

 

[Jjero]

so you dont follow the hadiths?

I follow some hadiths, I just don't believe hadiths are holy as @WiilWaalan claims

 

[WiilWaalan]

I follow some hadiths, I just don't believe hadiths are holy as @WiilWaalan claims

Then you aren't a good muslim. As i said before, the same book that tells us to pray five times a day is the same book that tells us prophet muhammed married aisha at 6 you believe in one but not the other why?

 

[Tramo]

its odd though that years later they would make that up from thin air.

i wouldnt say it was made up...it's not like her age is explicitly stated to be otherwise in any Sirah. it's just events that involve Aisha that are recounted in them sometimes contradict the Hadith

for example, she was said to have participated in the Battle of Badr in 624. in Islam you're not allowed to fight a battle before the age of 15...which would mean by that logic she was born in 608 or 609...making her around 12 years old when she got married. little discrepancies like that

i think people focus too much on the number of her age, when its inconsequential. 9, 12, 15 it doesnt matter as long as she was an adult at that time

 

[WiilWaalan]

i wouldnt say it was made up...it's not like her age is explicitly stated to be otherwise in any Sirah. it's just events that involve Aisha that are recounted in them sometimes contradict the Hadith

for example, she was said to have participated in the Battle of Badr in 624. in Islam you're not allowed to fight a battle before the age of 15...which would mean by that logic she was born in 608 or 609...making her around 12 years old when she got married. little discrepancies like that

i think people focus too much on the number of her age, when its inconsequential. 9, 12, 15 it doesnt matter as long as she was an adult at that time

What age would you consider adult

 

[Knowthyself]

i think people focus too much on the number of her age, when its inconsequential. 9, 12, 15 it doesnt matter as long as she was an adult at that time

i was about to point that out. But the age in which she consummated her marriage is the point of contention, the marriage part is one thing but the image of a older man raping a 9 yearold is just...imo 12 or 15 isn't any better. but at least by 12 or 15 should've already hit puberty or going through it so it make a little bit of sense. still disgusting regardless

 

[government]

Then you aren't a good muslim. As i said before, the same book that tells us to pray five times a day is the same book that tells us prophet muhammed married aisha at 6 you believe in one but not the other why?

The Salah is mentioned in the Quran along with many hadiths that come from many different people while the hadith that says Aisha is 9 comes from a single guy from Iraq

 

[Jjero]

Then you aren't a good muslim. As i said before, the same book that tells us to pray five times a day is the same book that tells us prophet muhammed married aisha at 6 you believe in one but not the other why?

As I said I follow some hadiths, i just dont think they are holy. There is only one holy book in islam and its allahs words in the Quran.
Don't question my deen, And then claim to be a muslim. Its between me and Allah you have no right to decide whether I am a bad muslim or not.
And both Quran and the Hadith mention the 5 prayers a day what are you trying to imply lol

 

[Tramo]

What age would you consider adult

why is my opinion on what i consider an adult in 2017 relevant to what was considered an adult more than a millennium ago?

 

[WiilWaalan]

The Salah is mentioned in the Quran along with many hadiths that come from many different people while the hadith that says Aisha is 9 comes from a single guy from Iraq

In the Quran it only tells us to pray, it doesn't tell us how to pray, it only does this in Sahih Bukhari.

Secondly muslims scholars like Dr Zakir Naik, Sheikh Omar El Bana and others have confirmed these passages that it did happen as the verses in the hadith specify, do you know something they don't know?

 

[Tramo]

i was about to point that out. But the age in which she consummated her marriage is the point of contention, the marriage part is one thing but the image of a older man raping a 9 yearold is just...imo 12 or 15 isn't any better. but at least by 12 or 15 should've already hit puberty or going through it so it make a little bit of sense. still disgusting regardless

ur assuming 9/12/15 year olds were exactly the same as they are now, which is odd. we're talking about almost 1500 years ago

shit even a couple of generations ago even in the developed west, a teenager was a straight up adult that supported families. we were discussing this in another thread, but now even 20 year olds are straight up ciyaal (no offense if ur 20 doe)