How much MENA ancestry do horners really have

A

Abdisamadi

Someone spotlighted this study that the data points for early studies were flawed

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Early Back-to-Africa Migration into the Horn of Africa

Genetic studies have identified substantial non-African admixture in the Horn of Africa (HOA). In the most recent genomic studies, this non-African ancestry has been attributed to admixture with Middle Eastern populations during the last few thousand ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
NidarNidar

NidarNidar

Punisher
Abdisamadi said:
Someone spotlighted this study that the data points for early studies were flawed

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Early Back-to-Africa Migration into the Horn of Africa

Genetic studies have identified substantial non-African admixture in the Horn of Africa (HOA). In the most recent genomic studies, this non-African ancestry has been attributed to admixture with Middle Eastern populations during the last few thousand ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click to expand...
That's Interesting, Christopher Ehret also said Proto-Afroasiatic spread from NEA and brought early forms of cultivation, domestication was introduced through the levant since these communities would have still traded with each other, the exchange would have been simple, similar to the domestication of the donkey by proto-caustics in the red sea hills, no wonder our ancestors hate fish, it's probably all they eat alongside wild grains similar to teff, no wonder I suffer from gluten sensitivity.

I believe people get too fixated on Natufians, keep in mind they also have origins from NA, it seems like the MENA component comes from a similar group that continued to inhabit the area by just looking at the primary haplogroup of Egyptians and Somalis, E1B1B is still found in the levant but not as much as J1, Current Semitic speakers absorbed the language during its early introduction into the Levant during the neolithic.

E-M123 seems to have been the primary haplogroup for Natufian males, while ours is primarily alongside Egyptians E-M78, Somalia being 70% E-V32 which is a subclade of E-V12 which is found in 73% of Egyptians, funny enough E-V32 is also found in a similar amount in Nilo Saharan speaker found in Chad and Sudan, Masalit people.

1705930534471.png


"A careful reading of Diakonoff (2) shows his continuing adherence to his
long-held position of an exclusively African origin (3,6) for the family. He
explicitly describes proto-Afroasiatic vocabulary as consistent with non-food-
producing and links it to pre-Neolithic cultures in the Levant and in Africa south
of Egypt, noting the latter to be older. Diakonoff does revise his Common Semitic
homeland, moving it from solely within northeast Africa to areas straddling the
Delta and Sinai, but continues to place the other five branches’ origins wholly in
Africa (2). Archaeological data suggest a pre-food-producing population
movement from Africa into the Levant (10), consistent with the linguistic
arguments for a pre-Neolithic migration of pre-proto-Semitic speakers out of
Africa via Sinai.

The proto-language of each Afroasiatic branch developed its own distinct
vocabulary of food production, further supporting the view that herding and
cultivation emerged separately in each branch distinctly after the proto-Afroasiatic
period (8,9). Diamond and Bellwood adopt Militarev’s (4) solitary counter-claim "

Abdisamadi said:
Seems a bit high, since they have more omotic ancestry as well
Click to expand...
We carry the highest AEA component in the horn, we probably haven't change much in the past 3,000 years.
 
MarcusAbdul

MarcusAbdul

NidarNidar said:
That's Interesting, Christopher Ehret also said Proto-Afroasiatic spread from NEA and brought early forms of cultivation, domestication was introduced through the levant since these communities would have still traded with each other, the exchange would have been simple, similar to the domestication of the donkey by proto-caustics in the red sea hills, no wonder our ancestors hate fish, it's probably all they eat alongside wild grains similar to teff, no wonder I suffer from gluten sensitivity.

I believe people get too fixated on Natufians, keep in mind they also have origins from NA, it seems like the MENA component comes from a similar group that continued to inhabit the area by just looking at the primary haplogroup of Egyptians and Somalis, E1B1B is still found in the levant but not as much as J1, Current Semitic speakers absorbed the language during its early introduction into the Levant during the neolithic.

E-M123 seems to have been the primary haplogroup for Natufian males, while ours is primarily alongside Egyptians E-M78, Somalia being 70% E-V32 which is a subclade of E-V12 which is found in 73% of Egyptians, funny enough E-V32 is also found in a similar amount in Nilo Saharan speaker found in Chad and Sudan, Masalit people.

View attachment 312209

"A careful reading of Diakonoff (2) shows his continuing adherence to his
long-held position of an exclusively African origin (3,6) for the family. He
explicitly describes proto-Afroasiatic vocabulary as consistent with non-food-
producing and links it to pre-Neolithic cultures in the Levant and in Africa south
of Egypt, noting the latter to be older. Diakonoff does revise his Common Semitic
homeland, moving it from solely within northeast Africa to areas straddling the
Delta and Sinai, but continues to place the other five branches’ origins wholly in
Africa (2). Archaeological data suggest a pre-food-producing population
movement from Africa into the Levant (10), consistent with the linguistic
arguments for a pre-Neolithic migration of pre-proto-Semitic speakers out of
Africa via Sinai.

The proto-language of each Afroasiatic branch developed its own distinct
vocabulary of food production, further supporting the view that herding and
cultivation emerged separately in each branch distinctly after the proto-Afroasiatic
period (8,9). Diamond and Bellwood adopt Militarev’s (4) solitary counter-claim "


We carry the highest AEA component in the horn, we probably haven't change much in the past 3,000 years.
Click to expand...
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Last edited:
A

Abdisamadi

While I have everyone's attention, What's everyone's theories on the omotic influences in the horn?

I find it fascinating many groups with mostly Cushitic ancestry speak the language while others speak Cushitic. My theory is that at some point after the Cushites settled the region an Omotic speaking group expanded further assimilating many Cushitic people, Reading on the myths of the Boran they say that at some point a group expanded and assimilated many of their people. They have many similarities in culture as well though the omotics were more prone to have kingdoms which indicates some semetic influence since the royal clans in these kingdoms did some from the north in their mythology

1705939467904.png
 
H

Himmler

When estimating Eurasian-SSA proportions things can get a little weird with East/North Africans depending on what references you use for the Eurasian and SSA.


Somalis can be modelled as being 45% Natufian, 55% Dinka.

Another model can be 40% BA Levant, 60% Dinka.
The difference in proportions is due to higher ANA/SSA-like affinity in Natufians relative to later Levantine farmers.

In any case most papers I’ve seen that estimate Eurasian-SSA proportions, whether it be admixture, f4 ratios, qpadm models etc… Somalis are consistently between 40-50% “Eurasian/MENA”
Habesha people are about 50-60 on average. But this greatly depends on what kind of proxies are being used.
There are studies saying habeshas are up to 66% Eurasian, so it varies but most studies are pretty consistent.

Something that needs to be said is that this “Eurasian SSA” dichotomy gets weird when it comes to East/North Africa as the Eurasian bottleneck most likely occurred in North East Africa there were almost certainly many transitional groups that existed probably between North/East Africa

There are Palaeolithic remains in East Africa that show Eurasian affinities, these remains are 80,000+ years old which proves Eurasian features to some degree are local to Africa and that we will likely find populations intermediate between Eurasians and SSA despite being completely native.

I think Dinka and Mota are good examples of somewhat transitional groups, and they are the best representatives for our SSA ancestry. They literally plot with African Americans on a PCA, meaning they behave like a 25% Eurasian people despite having less Neanderthal DNA than the vast majority of Sub Saharan Africans, on a treemix diagram, a qp graph you see the same thing, phylogenetically they are always slightly shifted towards Eurasian groups compared to the rest of SSA, which makes sense considering they are East African and would naturally share more recent common ancestry with the Africans who settled Eurasia. So the Dinka and Mota likely have some deep Eurasian affinity.

There are some admixture analyses where Somalis and Habeshas are like 50-55% and 65/66% Eurasian respectively, very often I’ve noticed those papers pick up on the Eurasian/MENA affinity embedded into Dinka/Mota
 
A

Abdisamadi

@Himller, does that also mean the Omotics (Native East African) are mixed with ancient eurasians? Since it was earlier could that point to Eurasian group closer to SSA than the ones Cushities mixed with?
 
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