Dr Osman Analysis - Democracy How To Implement In Somalia

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Cognitivedissonance

A sane man to an insane society must appear insane
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Judgment lies with Allah alone, not for mere mortals like us.
What do you think the Quran is? It's Allah judgement his word his law his way ordained by him for his slaves a Muslim means one who surrenders his/her will to the will of Allah.
 

SirLancelLord

Reformation of Somaliland
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Sri Lance, I thought about the percentage gained in each district and find it won't work cause a-lot of somali districts or regions as most are solely owned by a majority clan. That was the first thing that came to my mind to gain 30% or some figure for a political party at each region but I came across the problem most of the 18 regions are solely settled by a majority tribe and they can easily gain that figure!!!. SL system of including the clan elders is also not the best system, the clan elders should not get involved in politics but keep strictly in the rural matters!!! Infact joining politics is killing off their respect in rural areas but since the system is so strong in rural areas it really hasn't effected it that much untill a 'city' hand brings over its clan wars in the city to the nomads, which honestly is the only disturbance these folks ever had.

We should only ask the clan elders how to design a system that complements the culture, not have them actually involved!!! That is my two cents.

By the way suldanguled, I am with you bro, I am not interested in democracy but what can we do if the people are so gravitated towards it due to 'colonialism' and see no other viable system other then what the 'white man' taught them!!! the best me and you can do is at least design the system so it actually complements our cultures avoiding the pit traps of previous attempts!!!
As an observer, I notice that the Guurti are there only for Conflict Resolutions but what I'm more surprised on is however much control the Government of Somaliland has if there is enough rejection from the people they tend to make a U turn.

But don't you agree that they should create the Guurti system in Somalia. for conflict rescolution
 

SirLancelLord

Reformation of Somaliland
VIP
In 2001, Somaliland passed a constitution that installed the Guurti, a body of traditional elders, in the upper house, giving them legislative authority. But they have never been elected, and their constitutionally mandated six-year term limits have effectively been ignored. Now, leaders across Somaliland are in serious discussions about how best to reform the body to avoid a constitutional crisis.

What is the Guurti?

"The Guurti is a traditional forum for elders for mediation," Edward Paice, director at the Africa Research Institute in London, told IRIN. "Since time immemorial it has been a way of settling disputes."

Elders used to convene under an acacia tree to arbitrate rows, using a customary legal process known in Somali as ‘xeer’. Disputing parties would bring their concerns to the elders, and the proceedings would continue until a resolution was achieved.

Leading up to the fall of Somali president Mohamed Siyad Barre in 1991, Somaliland engaged in a brutal secession war with Somalia. In May 1991, Somaliland declared independence as Somalia dissolved into civil strife and eventual state failure. When Somaliland was torn apart by violence, the Guurti stepped in.

"This was one of the key institutions that was functioning at the time," said Mohamed Farah Hersi, a researcher at the Academy for Peace and Development in Somaliland’s capital, Hargeisa, speaking at an event in Nairobi, Kenya.

Clan elders came together for a number of peace conferences in the early-1990s, the most prominent of which was the Elders Conference at Borama in 1993. This led to the creation of the 82-member Guurti, which formalized the mediation system as a parliamentary body. In Borama, the Guurti also elected Somaliland's president and vice president.

"They were peacemakers for Somaliland," acknowledged Markus ***hne, a strong critic of the contemporary Guurti system and a research fellow at the Max Planck Institute for Social Anthropology. "Those guys put their lives on the line. They went to different conflict zones, often at great personal risk."

***hne believes that in the early 1990s, the Guurti was instrumental in rebuilding the country, but says that now the role and composition of the body is outdated.

The Guurti was responsible for drafting Somaliland’s constitution, which was passed in a 2001 referendum by an overwhelming majority.

According the constitution, the Guurti "shall have special responsibility for passing laws relating to religion, traditions (culture) and security", in addition to reviewing legislation passed by the House of Representatives.

"They are the centre of gravity. They are the cornerstone," Adam Haji-Ali Ahmed, director at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies at the University of Hargeisa, told IRIN. "One hundred percent of people in Somaliland trust the Guurti. They preach about peace."

Why was the Guurti so effective?

Somaliland has a large number of clans and sub-clans, each of which has its own structure of authority. Because its 3.85 million people are spread out over a large area - 55 percent of people are nomadic - governing from a central administration is tricky.

"We have a highly divided, fragmented society," said Asmahan Abdelsalam Hassan of the NAGAAD Network, Somaliland’s umbrella organization for women's rights groups, at an event in Nairobi. In many areas of Somaliland, customary law is the most effective and often the only way to mediate and address disputes.

To negotiate between warring factions, Somaliland turned to their elders, who were in charge of each group. "They got their authority from customary law, from the clans," said Ahmed.

"They built on traditional mechanisms - there was no one from outside telling them what to do," said Paice. "There is a tradition that no Somali meeting ends until a consensus has been achieved."

The 1993 Borama Conference lasted four months, but it resulted in a comprehensive framework and roadmap for a way forward. A charter with five guiding principles was drawn up, and was used as a temporary governing structure until a constitution was drafted.

Because many of the conference participants had strong ties to the Somali National Movement - the secessionist movement that was key to the formation of Somaliland - they were very effective at coordinating the demobilization and disarmament of rebel groups. This was a crucial step to achieving peace.

"These elders from the different clans want the welfare of their children, and their children after that, to be preserved," Jean-Paul Azam, professor of economics at France's Toulouse School of Economics, told IRIN. "For them, what matters is the collective evolution, what happens to the clan."

Minorities also have significant representation within the Guurti. "One of the main [principles] of the Guurti is inclusivity, that all clans should be included," said Hersi. It is the only decision-making body that rests fundamentally on power-sharing between all groups.

The House of Representatives tends to be dominated by the larger clans, so the Guurti is a crucial mechanism to engage all of Somaliland society. However, since 1993 clan alliances have shifted and clans themselves are no longer drawn along the same lines. This means that the composition of the Guurti will need to change if it is to reflect all of Somaliland.

So, what’s the problem?

The Guurti has never been elected. If a clan elder dies or retires, the seat is passed down to one of his descendants. This, many feel, is undermining the legitimacy of the body.

"Many of the experienced people and the old people have died," said Ahmed. "The young people are coming who know nothing about the culture, about customary law, about the history of Somaliland."

The constitution provides no direction on how Guurti members should be chosen, saying simply that "the members of the House of Elders shall be elected in a manner to be determined by law." A law governing this decision has yet to be drafted.

"We believe that Somaliland's democratization has made tremendous progress. But there are many challenges ahead with the Guurti,” said Mohamed A. Mohamoud, executive director of the Somaliland Non-State Actors Forum (SONSAF).

There are also accusations that the Guurti has lost independence and now bows to pressure from the president. Its unilateral decision to postpone presidential elections in 2008 was viewed by many as a sign that their impartiality had been compromised.

"A lot of the descendants of the original members see it as a business opportunity. That's not in keeping with the original ethos," Paice told IRIN. Traditionally, elders were not paid for their services on peace-keeping and arbitration.

In addition, many consider the Guurti ill-equipped to handle some of their legislative responsibilities. "There is by no means universal literacy in the Guurti," Paice added. "If it's a 450-page finance bill, this is problematic."

"Tradition is very important for peace-building, but not for state-building," noted Hersi. "Elders can build peace, but they cannot build a state."

Some analysts say the Guurti needs to be more gender-inclusive in its representation. Traditionally, women are not appointed clan elders, and the first House of Elders after Borama was an all-male body. Since then, a few women have inherited seats from their husbands, but they still represent a very small minority.

"Cultural and religious misperceptions undermine women's political participation," said the NAGAAD Network's Hassan. She argues that while women play an important mediation role in within Somaliland society, they are significantly underrepresented in terms of political participation. She also points out that because women were not included in the drafting of the constitution, no special protections for them exist within the current legislative framework.

NAGAAD and other civil society organizations lobbied for a bill in parliament that introduced the idea of reserved quotas for women and minorities for elected positions. Although the proposed legislation had the support of the current president, it was thrown out by the House of Representatives.
 

DR OSMAN

AF NAAREED
VIP
"Tradition is very important for peace-building, but not for state-building," noted Hersi. "Elders can build peace, but they cannot build a state."

I agree with that part. We must build a state reflecting on the framework the elders use to keep peace among their clans. For example consensus style approach, we need to adopt that into a future system where everything must come to an agreed consensus using a framework similar to how the clans reach consensus!!! We need to assess how much self rule the clan elder has over a clan and over what matters when deciding what sort of rights should be given to the state that is in-line with distribution of power!!! We must look at what sort of consequences mechanism and enforcement strategies they employ when the 'system' has been breached in order to ensure trust in the system remains strong. The way our nomads are set up is self rule over their land, resources, decision making process. This will need to be devolved down towards the states also allowing them to enjoy this level of control. In-fact it will need to devolve even further until it reaches every tuulo and they enjoy all those rights enshrined in our traditional system!!!

Our clan elders seem to live separately, function separately, yet do share with other clans on mutual resources. There are some things in their culture they know noone owns. Things like the land such as water sources, pastures, etc. Things like the sky when rain happens, each clan can go to another clan grazing ground. So there will need be a very loose style central system that distributes resources collected from the land, sea, air, basically anything where a sole clan doesn't own and it will need to be redistributed and shared equally among the regions or upon whatever formula they already apply in their rural style system.

I assessed the nomads and the long-end story short is these people are federal units and enjoy self autonomy in matters of decision making, their land and resources, yet they come across upon a shared system(central xeer). The way they apply it is funny also, big/small clans all enjoy freedom to speak, bring forth their case, they have an equality where big and small clans are all equal in the system, and there is a justice mechanism a mix of shariah and nomadic legislations to ensure justice is served for any violators. This very simple system has kept the peace in rural areas for centuries, even in the height of the civil war, these people were criss crossing freely among each other, as they had a 'system' to secure them. It was the city folks who collapsed cause the system was so foreign and not built to last. Infact the city folks passed on their degenerate behaviors and tried to inflict their city wars onto the nomads by bringing their problems to rural areas which sometimes worked but since the system there is strong they have something to fall back on. I bet they say 'nimankan magaaloyinka joggo oo aan xeer lahayn yaysan na kala dilin'. They are indeed smart people these folks!!! dantooda way yaqanan!!!
 

DR OSMAN

AF NAAREED
VIP
You can't pick and choose which part of Islam to follow its all or nothing & if you don't believe that legislation is only for Allah then you've committed shirk which is associating partners with Allah I hate to break it to you but you're a gaal:mybusiness:
Don't worry bro, the religious folks will be at the round table. They are apart of the elites themselves. They are big bloc among our 1% along with business community, civil society, politicians, clan elders!!! Don't worry, I will be addressing this sensitive topic yet critical. I for one am not a supporter of leaving these people out of the equation!!! it is sucidal because they can cause so much good and so much bad depending on how we serve them. I want to see all the 1% of our city, sit in a room and indhaha layska riddo and come up with a system that will satisfy us all. I envision a system where religious folks will be strong force and receive presidential nomination from a party to react to any 'religious' sentiments in the country.

Right now the sentiments are not religious in our country, the religious folks are trying to 'force' that down the people's throat for political/financial gain, the people just want peace and development really nothing else at this stage. But there will come a time when society does turn into religious sentiment, times when the country develops so much and the lines of development and religion start to cross, they're will be huge backlash in the community and that is when we need to capitalize and say it's time to elect a religious person as president to calm the people down!!! But that's a long way way ahead right now!!!! Infact I want the system to be so robust, that it won't matter who is running the country since their is so many checks n balances to curb anyone from going in any other direction other then the direction set by our system!!!
 

DR OSMAN

AF NAAREED
VIP
Sri Lance. It is crazy how our leaders create a system that reflects the 'western world' don't you think? yet ignore the ingredients of peace in our traditional method. If we do not include the same ingredients of the traditional system in our future democracy, you can see what will happen!!! Infact this is applicable to all africa, all their rural areas are at peace since traditional systems are still intact and working. It is their cities that are in chaos and corrupt!!! The main driver behind that is implementing a 'foreign' system that creates a race among tribes who come from a back-drop of traditional consensus style systems to one where it's 'winner takes all' or 'majority rules'. This then creates all those side effects of bad governance such as recruiting people who supported your party with money, given your tribe more quota in power, siphoning projects to your region. All this happens because they all know in the next election another leader will do the same for his people and it's just creates a continous constant cycle of corruption and leads that country into never fully realizing it's potential!!!

Infact it breaks down the trust levels in society so much, not only does corruption grow, but instability grows, they are always on the edge of a civil war every election. It allows foreigners to easily hide among your people and cause 'friction' to start and destabilize. You basically end up being a foreign aid basket case where your whole stability relies on the 'white man' to keep you afloat and the second he leaves you, you crumble like siyad barre did!!! The west are smart people sxb, we should teach africans the 'white man never left africa in indepedence, they left behind their system which in turn created dependence on him' they can decide if you survive or don't. Do you want a whole country stability to be in the hands of a foreigner? it's crazy truly!!!

You basically can't develop if there is no peace, the people need to have strong trust among each other which will lead everyone to go pursue their 'goals' which means 'development' for us!!! Similar to how our nomads go and pursue their goals of growing their livestocks, if there is no peace they can't do that. That's why a locally owned system that is 'believed' in is so important!!! If we adopted the ingredients of the nomadic system in our future system this will lead to our cities enjoying the same peace levels as the nomads do among themselves and across different clans!!! Once the cities have that high level of peace restored, then just like the nomads, we can guide them to achieve their 'goals' which is where leaders are critical to set up the path you put them on!!!
 
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SuldaanGuled

Rag waa shaah dumarna waa sheeko.
Your totally spot on. I have argued this point from day 1, but it doesn't seem a-lot of somalis understand this. We all know the root cause of our problem is one of trust. If there is no 'socially accepted' contract between a people, I am not sure how u can set up trust to flourish. For example in rural areas they say when two people marry, 'way xeero galeen' lol. Xeer is a social constract!!! That's only for two people that need some sort of sort contract that bestows on them rights yet expects responsibilities and if they fail to deliver on that, there must be a strict consequence applied. Exactly how they handle matters in rural areas, if there wasn't consequences applied for breaches of their 'xeer' it would never foster trust among clans as everyone will just get away with about anything they want. No nomad would be able to achieve his way of life seeking pasture and water resources if all the nomads in each district had no system of trust among themselves to faciliate free movement and sharing of resources like they did in BARI during the drought!!! None of that is feasible if there is no underlying system they all trust and do not doubt it.

I only disagree with one part on you, if we adopt a consequence style constitution that stipulates and enforces punishment for breaches they agree on, it will prevent breaches from happening. Without consequences I am not sure how you going to create confidence and trust among people who are very overtly suspicious of each other and agenda. The goal we want to achieve is resemble the peace and stability of the nomads, once we can get our city folks to enjoy that same level of peace and abide by the system, it's possible to achieve anything and move towards accelerated growth across the country in a very short time frame. When the nomads put peace among themselves thru their system, it allowed them to carry on pursuing their set goals. The only difference the city folks will have is their set goals will be 'development' and this will allow our people to stop fighting the system and head off and carry on development!!![/QUOTE]

First of all there's nothing to disagree on as i wasn't arguing against punishments etc what you call consequence style constitution. It's a given that measures must be set in place to handle breach of agreements, laws etc this is a common practise that has existed and will continue to exist. The issue of contention is about how to reconcile our people and which system of governance should we as somalis adopt.

I've asked you as to why you limited our option to only "democracy" and you haven't responded to that. We have been muslims for over 10 centuries (give or take ) and in that period we've lived under islamic rule to such an extent that our culture and values have adapted to islam, it has worked for us and suddenly you're arguing that we should leave it for another system that has been imposed on us since colonial era ?

Clearly you seem convinced that this is a better system than the islamic one now all that remains is for you to argue for your case. To simplify the matter i would kindly ask you to list the things which you believe can only be achieved under democracy and not under islamic system. Since you don't believe in "political islam" what other areas of islam don't you believe in ? would you care to elaborate more on what you mean by "political islam" ?
 

DR OSMAN

AF NAAREED
VIP
Suldan, All I was say on this matter is. I don't believe in an Islam where allah looks at how big your islamic caliphate was and how you conquered people. Islam is about yourself and god, it has nothing to do with what someone else is doing!!! When you die you are judged on your life results, not asked about other people, infact your parents will run from you. It's an individual orientated religion and should stay that way!!!

I believe in a personal islam, a religion between me and god. After all I prefer to go to god and say, I created a system that unites people like the prophet did in medina with his medina constitution which was totally secular allowing rights for jews and pagans equal rights in the states, created a check n balance by declaring rights for each groups, responsibilities, and of course consequences!!! I will answer to god and say the reason why I support a system that is based on 'results' is because there is no other way to unite people except along common values shared. Everyone wants freedom, everyone wants equality, everyone wants justice. These are the only things we can agree on. We surely can't agree on tribe, religion, and other divivise matters. Hence why the constitution in median was very secular, it attempted to resolve differences by uniting people across common ground which is shared humanity and those core values I just stated!!!

I want to tell god, I wanted my people to survive not fight each other. I left behind a system that focussed on what they can agree on. We can agree on the fact the best man should get the job based on merit, not because he is a muslim, or she wears a hijab, or he is a secularist!!! we want the best person for the role, identity politics is age old institutions that rewards people on 'superficial' matters that hold no weight. The quran says clearly 'every people destroy themselves first' it's up to us to survive. If we want to be in a perpertual state of war then play identity politics like clan, religion, race etc and eventually we will wipe each other out and nothing will be left. No1 will be able to pray anymore, fast anymore, and I feel god will look down on you and say 'how can i reward u for anything in life when you destroyed it and went against your own common sense', you are basically a 'qowm is-halaagay'.

This is a very deep issue which I will provide my best anaylsis in the future, look out for the topic ISLAM AND SOMALIA.

One of my personal favorite ministers is maryan qasim, she is very religious. You think I would ever say to remove her from the role? buddy i look at results of people, just like allah looks at our results!!! I don't look at identity politics. You could wear a whole damn burka but if you the best person and have the best mind, i want you taking the lead!!! As long as u respect the constitution, just like everyone had to respect the constitution in medina, when they didnt and the jews broke it, if the prophet didnt exile them, the whole state would've collapsed as mistrust and fitna would be generated and everyone returning to tribal politics!!! So if any1 breaks the constitution in somalia we must do the same hence why I keep suggesting we need a NATO pact of sort as a check n balance on the government. I will be the first to shoot at a secularist if he breaks the constitution. I honestly dont play identity politics!!!

You know if u honestly dont want freedom-equality-justice, core values of all humans, then you want domination and regardless what your background is, your a fitnah in the land and must be eliminated regardless if it is a tribal person, religious person, secularist person!!! if you dont want a system where everything is shared along results then you want people to break back down to 'jahiliyah' and you are the devil in my eyes regardless what 'cloak' you are disguise yourself in!!!
 
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Cognitivedissonance

A sane man to an insane society must appear insane
Stay WOKE
VIP
The Illusion of Democracy


Centralisation of power would not be accepted by the public if it was imposed directly; but by offering an apparent choice in the democratic elections of Britain and the US, people are sold the illusion that actions of politicians are accountable to the majority.

In America, presidencies are won through money, so those who control the financial resources dictate who becomes president and the president is then under obligation to those who funded him. The apparent differences between Republicans and Democrats are a façade as epitomised by George Bush, the Republican President 1989-1993, and Bill Clinton, the current Democratic President. Both are members of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission; both are 33rd degree masons; both support GATT, NAFTA, centralisation and economic growth at the expense of humanity and the environment; and both are heavily involved in drug trafficking, child abuse, murder and the Iran-Contra affair.

In the British 'democracy' a person's allegiance to a political party is largely dictated by income and image. The majority of constituencies are 'safe seats' because due to the affluence, or otherwise, of an area the people automatically vote Conservative or Labour, respectively. Any candidate who toes the Elite line can be easily installed in parliament through these seats and subsequently MPs are instructed how to vote by their party. Those who attempt to be individuals and not support their party on certain issues face sanctions, whereas those who are willing to do as they are told advance rapidly. MPs are bribed to ask questions on behalf of certain companies, they often have external directorships and consultancies and on leaving government they often move into top commercial posts. For example, Lord Wakeham, who was instrumental in the privatisation of the electrical industry, became a director of N.M. Rothschild who had made a fortune from the privatisation. Other directors of N.M. Rothschild include Norman Lamont (former Chancellor), Lord Armstrong (one of Thatcher's cabinet secretaries during privatisation), Clive Whitmore (Home Office permanent secretary) and Frank Cooper (Ministry of Defence permanent secretary).

As early as 1940 Harold Wilson was preaching a centralised Federal Europe and outlined a plan of infiltration of the Labour and Conservative parties to form a centre party of moderates which could brand any genuine opposition as extremists. The plan also included the destruction of the British manufacturing industries. Between 1964 and 1975, Wilson (Labour) was Prime Minister, except when he was replaced in 1970-74 by his Bilderberg colleague Edward Heath (Conservative). The two of them ran down British industry, limited MI5 investigational powers and moved towards European Union. Wilson was aided by Lord Victor Rothschild as the head of his Central Policy Review Staff, and his Chancellor Denis Healey (Bilderberger, TC, RIIA).

Today, all political parties agree on the major issues—Major, Blair and Ashdown are all in favour of European Union, a single currency and bank, Maastricht, GATT and Western consumerism.


http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/manipulation/
 

DR OSMAN

AF NAAREED
VIP
Conginitive!!! Your very anti democracy. I am not personal supporter of it myself, but im trying to help the democratic leaning people to bring ideas how their system will fit into our culture, taking note how its failed in 99% non western countries, and has a track record in our country also that can be analyzed!!!

I would love to see you propose a thread how you feel islamism will work in Somalia taking into account our culture, the core values needed in every system such as 'freedom, equality, justice', plus your consequence mechanism if anyone breaks the system!!! I would love to hear you propose that!!! Like I said, I feel any system can work in Somalia as long as it takes into account our cultural realities on the ground and has severe consequences for non compliance and restores trust among the people!!!

I want to see the islamist, secularist, democratist, communist, and me i guess traditionalist(supports local systems since they have proven to work) come to a round table like fagaarah and rip each other eyes out with hard hitting points!!! I hate fagaarah right now as it's dominated by 'secularists'!!!
 

DR OSMAN

AF NAAREED
VIP
It's time the youth, all of us do our bit now!!! the govt is calling upon us like it never has to bring fresh ideas. Let's not just rehash what our 'fathers' did!!! let's actually aim to produce something that they never produced before and something that we will all feel confident in!!!
 

Cognitivedissonance

A sane man to an insane society must appear insane
Stay WOKE
VIP
Conginitive!!! Your very anti democracy. I am not personal supporter of it myself, but im trying to help the democratic leaning people to bring ideas how their system will fit into our culture, taking note how its failed in 99% non western countries, and has a track record in our country also that can be analyzed!!!

I would love to see you propose a thread how you feel islamism will work in Somalia taking into account our culture, the core values needed in every system such as 'freedom, equality, justice', plus your consequence mechanism if anyone breaks the system!!! I would love to hear you propose that!!! Like I said, I feel any system can work in Somalia as long as it takes into account our cultural realities on the ground and has severe consequences for non compliance and restores trust among the people!!!

I want to see the islamist, secularist, democratist, communist, and me i guess traditionalist(supports local systems since they have proven to work) come to a round table like fagaarah and rip each other eyes out with hard hitting points!!! I hate fagaarah right now as it's dominated by 'secularists'!!!
You're anti Islam and a sheep a follower your belief democracy can't stand up to my beliefs which is from God himself the creator of all things and I stand on the truth and you stand for falsehood so my foundations are strong Alhamdulillah.

If you believe democracy is the best system then why don't you refute this or let me guess cause of cognitive dissonance? If not then disprove and refute this & stop beating around the bush.






The Illusion of Democracy

Centralisation of power would not be accepted by the public if it was imposed directly; but by offering an apparent choice in the democratic elections of Britain and the US, people are sold the illusion that actions of politicians are accountable to the majority.

In America, presidencies are won through money, so those who control the financial resources dictate who becomes president and the president is then under obligation to those who funded him. The apparent differences between Republicans and Democrats are a façade as epitomised by George Bush, the Republican President 1989-1993, and Bill Clinton, the current Democratic President. Both are members of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission; both are 33rd degree masons; both support GATT, NAFTA, centralisation and economic growth at the expense of humanity and the environment; and both are heavily involved in drug trafficking, child abuse, murder and the Iran-Contra affair.

In the British 'democracy' a person's allegiance to a political party is largely dictated by income and image. The majority of constituencies are 'safe seats' because due to the affluence, or otherwise, of an area the people automatically vote Conservative or Labour, respectively. Any candidate who toes the Elite line can be easily installed in parliament through these seats and subsequently MPs are instructed how to vote by their party. Those who attempt to be individuals and not support their party on certain issues face sanctions, whereas those who are willing to do as they are told advance rapidly. MPs are bribed to ask questions on behalf of certain companies, they often have external directorships and consultancies and on leaving government they often move into top commercial posts. For example, Lord Wakeham, who was instrumental in the privatisation of the electrical industry, became a director of N.M. Rothschild who had made a fortune from the privatisation. Other directors of N.M. Rothschild include Norman Lamont (former Chancellor), Lord Armstrong (one of Thatcher's cabinet secretaries during privatisation), Clive Whitmore (Home Office permanent secretary) and Frank Cooper (Ministry of Defence permanent secretary).

As early as 1940 Harold Wilson was preaching a centralised Federal Europe and outlined a plan of infiltration of the Labour and Conservative parties to form a centre party of moderates which could brand any genuine opposition as extremists. The plan also included the destruction of the British manufacturing industries. Between 1964 and 1975, Wilson (Labour) was Prime Minister, except when he was replaced in 1970-74 by his Bilderberg colleague Edward Heath (Conservative). The two of them ran down British industry, limited MI5 investigational powers and moved towards European Union. Wilson was aided by Lord Victor Rothschild as the head of his Central Policy Review Staff, and his Chancellor Denis Healey (Bilderberger, TC, RIIA).

Today, all political parties agree on the major issues—Major, Blair and Ashdown are all in favour of European Union, a single currency and bank, Maastricht, GATT and Western consumerism.





:mjpls:
 

DR OSMAN

AF NAAREED
VIP
I can easily refute that. Those problems in democracy, are also in islamism!!! Your islamic leader will need funds also to convince people to be elected either through a shura or popular vote like iran!!! Finance impacts on all systems and there ways to limit it's impact also like ensuring all parties are given equal amount of funding to campaign through-out the country!!! Once u identify a hole in a system, it's easy fixing it!!! The problem really is identifying a hole that no-one has yet identified and fixing that!!!

You think I don't know democrats get funded by big corporations? especially left leaning corporations(medical, technology, science, engineering) who need high skilled workforce to keep their companies running, which means more investment and subsidy programs into universities, better lower level schooling, etc? while the right want a cheap unskilled workforce for retail/manufacturing/farming and more technical schools to supply that!!! I didn't even read that stuff, I just know a business will always need a supply of workers and where the govt invests into will determine if their will be a 'short supply or a large supply' which will determine 'pay rates'. If a manufacturing plant can only find 10 people in the nation to fill a position, well he is going to have pay top dollar for that labor cause it's in short supply, but if it's a million that is out there, well u can see what can happen? that's why doctors paid higher then a factory worker. It's cause of supply/demand!!! anyone can do factory work(huge pool of labor), only a small segment can be a doctor(they cut out 90% of applicants in universities)

I know every corporation will take care of it's interest to stay afloat in the market place and they know their labor comes from the people which are impacted by the govt direction!!! Im suprised u needed to read that from a blog!!! this is common sense stuff, just put yourself in a business shoe and identify how u will source labor!!!
 

Cognitivedissonance

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I can easily refute that. Those problems in democracy, are also in islamism!!! Your islamic leader will need funds also to convince people to be elected either through a shura or popular vote like iran!!! Finance impacts on all systems and there ways to limit it's impact also like ensuring all parties are given equal amount of funding to campaign through-out the country!!! Once u identify a hole in a system, it's easy fixing it!!! The problem really is identifying a hole that no-one has yet identified and fixing that!!!

You think I don't know democrats get funded by big corporations? especially left leaning corporations(medical, technology, science, engineering) who need high skilled workforce to keep their companies running, which means more investment and subsidy programs into universities, better lower level schooling, etc? while the right want a cheap unskilled workforce for retail/manufacturing/farming and more technical schools to supply that!!! I didn't even read that stuff, I just know a business will always need a supply of workers and where the govt invests into will determine if their will be a 'short supply or a large supply' which will determine 'pay rates'. If a manufacturing plant can only find 10 people in the nation to fill a position, well he is going to have pay top dollar for that labor cause it's in short supply, but if it's a million that is out there, well u can see what can happen? that's why doctors paid higher then a factory worker. It's cause of supply/demand!!! anyone can do factory work(huge pool of labor), only a small segment can be a doctor(they cut out 90% of applicants in universities)

I know every corporation will take care of it's interest to stay afloat in the market place and they know their labor comes from the people which are impacted by the govt direction!!! Im suprised u needed to read that from a blog!!! this is common sense stuff, just put yourself in a business shoe and identify how u will source labor!!!
It shows how little you know about Islam & Islamic history and Muslims in general it's pitiful as a Somali I might aswell be talking to a Zionist from Israel islamist kulaha no there's a big difference between Islam & Islamist al shabaab & other terrorist groups or countries like Iran or Saudia Arabia.

Your argument is flawed cause all these islamists as you so passionately refer to them are not implementing the shariah in fact in Saudia Arabia & Iran are far removed from the shariah.


A caliphate hasn't existed for the past almost 100 years so you can't argue Islamic system exists today because it clearly doesn't.
 

Cognitivedissonance

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Your democracy is backed up by fiat currency while an Islamic monetary system is backed by silver & gold now tell me which is real and tangible & the Quran was written over 1400 years ago
Falsehood will crumble when confronted by the truth :denzelnigga:
 

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Cognitive, Like I Said wait for my topic on Islam and Somalia!!! I am sure you will give me a brutal beat down. But the way I will explain it will relate to what people can see with their own eyes, and contemplate with their own minds. Not just 'hebel hebel' san yiri, which unfortunately is all your doing!!! I feel even your interpretation of Islam is just 'hebel hebel' said this because he said the prophet said this even if it goes against our 'mind'. If an islamic scholar said to you, the prophet narrated 'the sun is a monkey' you will come back and just say this is the truth!!! when we know the sun is surely no dog cause it contradicts everything our mind tells us.

Alot of Islam has had human hands in it for certain agendas to be achieved, especially in the early islamic caliphate, the quran itself is perfect, it's human interpretation which isn't and they have interpreted it where part suits them for their own agendas of the day. Even this salafist you see today, have an agenda and always did. If they were so muslims, they wouldn't of fought the caliphate which is haram and side with infidels. I will go into this topic of islam and somalia more deeply at some other time. But just know this, it isn't a miracle why early somali islam was more sufistic(ottoman influence) and now all of a sudden more (salafist). Finance plays a big role and you islamists are not immune either!!! lets just leave it at that :)
 
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I will be raising up two threads in the future. Economic recovery for Somalia and the importance of having solid banks to generate economic activities. I will also be raising up the role of islam in somalia, going back on islam history, economic factors, geopolitical factors involved, and their true agenda. I am going to speak about the islamist mostly though!!! Because islam can be interpreted how u wish as long as u got the money backing u to spread it!!! it can be sufistic like when ottomans were in power, it can be salafist cause saudis have power, it can be traditional(like in those azarbaijan, and all those countries ending in stan). But it's a massive topic in it's own right!!! It requires a detailed article
 
In 2001, Somaliland passed a constitution that installed the Guurti, a body of traditional elders, in the upper house, giving them legislative authority. But they have never been elected, and their constitutionally mandated six-year term limits have effectively been ignored. Now, leaders across Somaliland are in serious discussions about how best to reform the body to avoid a constitutional crisis.

What is the Guurti?

"The Guurti is a traditional forum for elders for mediation," Edward Paice, director at the Africa Research Institute in London, told IRIN. "Since time immemorial it has been a way of settling disputes."

Elders used to convene under an acacia tree to arbitrate rows, using a customary legal process known in Somali as ‘xeer’. Disputing parties would bring their concerns to the elders, and the proceedings would continue until a resolution was achieved.

Leading up to the fall of Somali president Mohamed Siyad Barre in 1991, Somaliland engaged in a brutal secession war with Somalia. In May 1991, Somaliland declared independence as Somalia dissolved into civil strife and eventual state failure. When Somaliland was torn apart by violence, the Guurti stepped in.

"This was one of the key institutions that was functioning at the time," said Mohamed Farah Hersi, a researcher at the Academy for Peace and Development in Somaliland’s capital, Hargeisa, speaking at an event in Nairobi, Kenya.

Clan elders came together for a number of peace conferences in the early-1990s, the most prominent of which was the Elders Conference at Borama in 1993. This led to the creation of the 82-member Guurti, which formalized the mediation system as a parliamentary body. In Borama, the Guurti also elected Somaliland's president and vice president.

"They were peacemakers for Somaliland," acknowledged Markus ***hne, a strong critic of the contemporary Guurti system and a research fellow at the Max Planck Institute for Social Anthropology. "Those guys put their lives on the line. They went to different conflict zones, often at great personal risk."

***hne believes that in the early 1990s, the Guurti was instrumental in rebuilding the country, but says that now the role and composition of the body is outdated.

The Guurti was responsible for drafting Somaliland’s constitution, which was passed in a 2001 referendum by an overwhelming majority.

According the constitution, the Guurti "shall have special responsibility for passing laws relating to religion, traditions (culture) and security", in addition to reviewing legislation passed by the House of Representatives.

"They are the centre of gravity. They are the cornerstone," Adam Haji-Ali Ahmed, director at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies at the University of Hargeisa, told IRIN. "One hundred percent of people in Somaliland trust the Guurti. They preach about peace."

Why was the Guurti so effective?

Somaliland has a large number of clans and sub-clans, each of which has its own structure of authority. Because its 3.85 million people are spread out over a large area - 55 percent of people are nomadic - governing from a central administration is tricky.

"We have a highly divided, fragmented society," said Asmahan Abdelsalam Hassan of the NAGAAD Network, Somaliland’s umbrella organization for women's rights groups, at an event in Nairobi. In many areas of Somaliland, customary law is the most effective and often the only way to mediate and address disputes.

To negotiate between warring factions, Somaliland turned to their elders, who were in charge of each group. "They got their authority from customary law, from the clans," said Ahmed.

"They built on traditional mechanisms - there was no one from outside telling them what to do," said Paice. "There is a tradition that no Somali meeting ends until a consensus has been achieved."

The 1993 Borama Conference lasted four months, but it resulted in a comprehensive framework and roadmap for a way forward. A charter with five guiding principles was drawn up, and was used as a temporary governing structure until a constitution was drafted.

Because many of the conference participants had strong ties to the Somali National Movement - the secessionist movement that was key to the formation of Somaliland - they were very effective at coordinating the demobilization and disarmament of rebel groups. This was a crucial step to achieving peace.

"These elders from the different clans want the welfare of their children, and their children after that, to be preserved," Jean-Paul Azam, professor of economics at France's Toulouse School of Economics, told IRIN. "For them, what matters is the collective evolution, what happens to the clan."

Minorities also have significant representation within the Guurti. "One of the main [principles] of the Guurti is inclusivity, that all clans should be included," said Hersi. It is the only decision-making body that rests fundamentally on power-sharing between all groups.

The House of Representatives tends to be dominated by the larger clans, so the Guurti is a crucial mechanism to engage all of Somaliland society. However, since 1993 clan alliances have shifted and clans themselves are no longer drawn along the same lines. This means that the composition of the Guurti will need to change if it is to reflect all of Somaliland.

So, what’s the problem?

The Guurti has never been elected. If a clan elder dies or retires, the seat is passed down to one of his descendants. This, many feel, is undermining the legitimacy of the body.

"Many of the experienced people and the old people have died," said Ahmed. "The young people are coming who know nothing about the culture, about customary law, about the history of Somaliland."

The constitution provides no direction on how Guurti members should be chosen, saying simply that "the members of the House of Elders shall be elected in a manner to be determined by law." A law governing this decision has yet to be drafted.

"We believe that Somaliland's democratization has made tremendous progress. But there are many challenges ahead with the Guurti,” said Mohamed A. Mohamoud, executive director of the Somaliland Non-State Actors Forum (SONSAF).

There are also accusations that the Guurti has lost independence and now bows to pressure from the president. Its unilateral decision to postpone presidential elections in 2008 was viewed by many as a sign that their impartiality had been compromised.

"A lot of the descendants of the original members see it as a business opportunity. That's not in keeping with the original ethos," Paice told IRIN. Traditionally, elders were not paid for their services on peace-keeping and arbitration.

In addition, many consider the Guurti ill-equipped to handle some of their legislative responsibilities. "There is by no means universal literacy in the Guurti," Paice added. "If it's a 450-page finance bill, this is problematic."

"Tradition is very important for peace-building, but not for state-building," noted Hersi. "Elders can build peace, but they cannot build a state."

Some analysts say the Guurti needs to be more gender-inclusive in its representation. Traditionally, women are not appointed clan elders, and the first House of Elders after Borama was an all-male body. Since then, a few women have inherited seats from their husbands, but they still represent a very small minority.

"Cultural and religious misperceptions undermine women's political participation," said the NAGAAD Network's Hassan. She argues that while women play an important mediation role in within Somaliland society, they are significantly underrepresented in terms of political participation. She also points out that because women were not included in the drafting of the constitution, no special protections for them exist within the current legislative framework.

NAGAAD and other civil society organizations lobbied for a bill in parliament that introduced the idea of reserved quotas for women and minorities for elected positions. Although the proposed legislation had the support of the current president, it was thrown out by the House of Representatives.
Somaliland shouldn't be foolish. Foreigners don't understand the importance of qabil. It's engrained within our society, the guurti and other Somali clan systems are intelligent ways to allow a functioning Somali state. Somaliland should create a new branch of government that has power to resolve disputes between clans or tribes. This will allow the somaliland government not to bother with qabil giving its leaders more legitimacy whilst at the same time not ignoring it.

If it wasn't for clan discussions Somaliland wouldn't exist, the creation of clan mediators allow Somaliland not to worry about clan rifts when creating new business opportunities. For example the berbera port.
 

Cognitivedissonance

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Cognitive, Like I Said wait for my topic on Islam and Somalia!!! I am sure you will give me a brutal beat down. But the way I will explain it will relate to what people can see with their own eyes, and contemplate with their own minds. Not just 'hebel hebel' san yiri, which unfortunately is all your doing!!! I feel even your interpretation of Islam is just 'hebel hebel' said this because he said the prophet said this even if it goes against our 'mind'. If an islamic scholar said to you, the prophet narrated 'the sun is a monkey' you will come back and just say this is the truth!!! when we know the sun is surely no dog cause it contradicts everything our mind tells us.

Alot of Islam has had human hands in it for certain agendas to be achieved, especially in the early islamic caliphate, the quran itself is perfect, it's human interpretation which isn't and they have interpreted it where part suits them for their own agendas of the day. Even this salafist you see today, have an agenda and always did. If they were so muslims, they wouldn't of fought the caliphate which is haram and side with infidels. I will go into this topic of islam and somalia more deeply at some other time. But just know this, it isn't a miracle why early somali islam was more sufistic(ottoman influence) and now all of a sudden more (salafist). Finance plays a big role and you islamists are not immune either!!! lets just leave it at that :)
Hebel hebel said this kulaha I quoted the Quran kkkk you're clutching at straws I presented you with facts and all you have is emotions what you feel and how it makes others feel and how we feel my g forget how we feel and present the evidence.
 
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