After much prayer

[VixR]

You see I am not that different than you, it is just that I have chosen to believe because I am a dead man walking without Islam.

Care to elaborate?

 

[supz]

Care to elaborate?

looooool its as if he's under the impression that you can either choose to believe or not.

 

[anonimo]

Care to elaborate?

I am guessing you left Islam because shit didn't add up for you, and you could not live a lie anymore. You are not one of those atheists who left Islam without exploring it. Once you immersed yourself in it, your intelligence (natural and acquired) could not compute certain Islamic truths. I don't let my mind wander too far, hence why I said 'I choose to believe'. Many Muslims will dispute this, but Islam and all religions require a degree of blind faith. We did not all become Muslims because we 'saw the light'.

 

[VixR]

looooool its as if he's under the impression that you can either choose to believe or not.

Actually, people do actively choose to believe. Faith is comforting, but it isn't so organic as that. It requires taking a leap [of faith], that's where that saying comes from.

For me, I couldn't take the leap anymore, so I lost faith. That happened when the most important parameter became searching for truth.

 

[VixR]

I am guessing you left Islam because shit didn't add up for you, and you could not live a lie anymore. You are not one of those atheists who left Islam without exploring it. Once you immersed yourself in it, your intelligence (natural and acquired) could not compute certain Islamic truths. I don't let my mind wander too far, hence why I said 'I choose to believe'. Many Muslims will dispute this, but Islam and all religions require a degree of blind faith. We did not all become Muslims because we 'saw the light'.

I let my mind wander. I found myself better off in the wild.

I don't have all the answers, but the questions are real.

 

[simulacrum]

Did you meet a good-looking Farax or something?

 

[supz]

Actually, people do actively choose to believe. Faith is comforting, but it isn't so organic as that. It requires taking a leap [of faith], that's where that saying comes from.

For me, I couldn't take the leap anymore, so I lost faith. That happened when the most important parameter became searching for truth.

Agreed. But after you reach a level of disbelief there is no going back. I agree that you have to expend a certain amount of will power to believe. Its like a spectrum, its why even muslims have certain levels of iman, their belief is never static. I actually had a period of time last year where I trying to believe Allah and tried to read up on tafsir, but couldn't get myself to believe in it all. Ive noticed that a lot of ex muslims lose faith after learning about the moral schisms between western values and the islamic one rather than due to the scientific inaccuracies. That doesn't make sense to me, since morality is shaped by God and the word of God is everything in the muslim perspective, and that the muslim perspective encapsulates that no measly human's will should override god since he knows better.

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

I've re-embraced Islam

 

[anonimo]

I let my mind wander. I found myself better off in the wild.

I don't have all the answers, but the questions are real.

Its a scary world you live in. So many questions, not enough answers. I would not see the point of living.

 

[brakenclaw]

"What has he found who has lost God? And what has he lost who has found God?"

 

[VixR]

Agreed. But after you reach a level of disbelief there is no going back. I agree that you have to expend a certain amount of will power to believe. Its like a spectrum, its why even muslims have certain levels of iman, their belief is never static. I actually had a period of time last year where I trying to believe Allah and tried to read up on tafsir, but couldn't get myself to believe in it all. Ive noticed that a lot of ex muslims lose faith after learning about the moral schisms between western values and the islamic one rather than due to the scientific inaccuracies. That doesn't make sense to me, since morality is shaped by God and the word of God is everything in the muslim perspective, and that the muslim perspective encapsulates that no measly human's will should override god since he knows better.

I think moral schisms are still standalone valid reasons. The reason being, if as a human you cannot support the sort of moral landscape the religion itself encapsulates, that directly leads to the divinity of the divine being stripped away, and therefore can also lead to disbelief, for how can I as human with this so-called god-given morality be cringing at this god's religious mandates through the very same barometer for basic right and wrong it allegedly put in me? In Islam, it's called "Fitrah/Urf".
That's the wormhole right there.


These philosophical questions are easily as important to the human reality as the scientific inaccuracies, which also exist.

 

[supz]

I think moral schisms are still standalone valid reasons. The reason being, if as a human you cannot support the sort of moral landscape the religion itself encapsulates, that directly leads to the divinity of the divine being stripped away, and therefore can also lead to disbelief, for how can I as human with this so-called god-given morality be cringing at this god's religious mandates through the very same barometer for basic right and wrong it allegedly put in me? In Islam, it's called "Fitrah".
That's the wormhole right there.


These philosophical questions are easily as important to the human reality as the scientific inaccuracies, which also exist.

I wouldn't say as important since the islamic morality be it for alcohol, homosexuality and usury is not unique to islam. Plus if you take into account that morality is subjective. The objective scientific inaccuracies in the quran stand as more important.

 

[Xaagi-Cagmadigtee]

Somali ethos has reached at an unfathomable level when we have to congratulate a Somali for embracing Islam. I thought the two were (for the most part) synonymous.

 

[brakenclaw]

 

[VixR]

I wouldn't say as important since the islamic morality be it for alcohol, homosexuality and usury is not unique to islam. Plus if you take into account that morality is subjective. The objective scientific inaccuracies in the quran stand as more important.

You're one of those atheists who think philosophy of thought is inconsequential. That's not true to reality though. Science itself is a product of the philosophical process, it's actually one of the best examples of applied philosophy.

 

[supz]

You're one of those atheists who think philosophy of thought is inconsequential. That's not true to reality though. Science itself is a product of the philosophical process, it's actually one of the best examples of applied philosophy.

lool thats a strawman. The philosophy of thought is very important. I just believe that facts are more important than opinions or about what someone thinks is wrong or inhuman. To argue with a deity/human about morals seems a little less valid than to argue with a deity/human about where he/she is scientifically wrong. Don't you agree with that? Morality is shaped by your surrounding but facts never change, thats more rational.

 

[VixR]

lool thats a strawman. The philosophy of thought is very important. I just believe that facts are more important than opinions or about what someone thinks is wrong or inhuman. To argue with a deity about morals seems a little less valid than to argue with a deity about where he/she is scientifically wrong. Don't you agree with that? Morality is shaped by your surrounding but facts never change, thats more rational.

Morality isn't all-out subjective like you make it out to be. Philosophy of thought explores morality and ethics more so than most anything else, bc these are discussions that are most relevant to everyday life in the human reality.

If you're arguing to a deity about anything, by definition that diety exists.

Disbelief in theistic system as a concept is something that you reach through philosophy of thought, and the morality of that diety isn't something very easily separated from that.

 

[brakenclaw]

 

[VixR]

Its a scary world you live in. So many questions, not enough answers. I would not see the point of living.

The world has always been scary, I never did notice how much before.

Islam, like most religions, provides you with a meaning to your life. It even calls itself a way of life.

When you find it to be false, you're left standing with what was once of meaning to you stripped away from you.

Now you have no meaning.

This is the reason certain people find themselves depressed or empty or whatnot when they disbelieve.

What to do?

You either give your life new meaning through creating or inventing new meaning, afterall the meaning I had before was just as made up, only now this is customized. or you the drop the importance/utility of meaning altogether.

 

[supz]

Morality isn't all-out subjective like you make it out to be. Philosophy of thought explores morality and ethics more so than most anything else, bc these are discussions that are most relevant to everyday life in the human reality.

If you're arguing to a deity about anything, by definition that diety exists.

Disbelief in theistic system as a concept is something that you reach through philosophy of thought, and the morality of that diety isn't something very easily separated from that.

They are interconnected for sure. You reach disbelief through the philosophy of thought. Morals and ethics seem to dominate the philosophy of thought but as you said previously, science falls under the dogma aswell. The trigger that that makes you reach disbelief could be the moral aspects or the scientific inaccuracy aspect. My point was that facts supersede ethics and morality since morals are fluid. Morals are a valid reason to not believe anymore but facts reign supreme in the importance scale for debates.