After much prayer

[lone]

This is kind of true. Its hard for a lot of atheists to fight the thought of what they've heard even when the truth stands before them

That is a hitler quote. The fellow was not crazy after all.

 

[agnes]

I'm truly happy for you @Shamis

May Allah protect you always and guide you ameen.

 

[anonimo]

It's not violent, jihad is only defensive.

When I was in Kenya a sheikh explained to me that a lot of slaves were set free after Muslims invited them into their families and into Islam.

I am tempted to explore how you have made sense of Islam's stance on slavery, offensive Jihad etc. However, I don't think you can handle the truth and will only return to Gaalnimo.

Keep it real please, and avoid the temptation to dilute the Deen.

 

[anonimo]

Imagine leaving the deen due to racism

Islam brought Bantus to Somalia.
The Nigga had no other choice but to leave Islam.

 

[Hybrid]

I am tempted to explore how you have made sense of Islam's stance on slavery, offensive Jihad etc. However, I don't think you can handle the truth and will only return to Gaalnimo.

Keep it real please, and avoid the temptation to dilute the Deen.

are you a fucking salafi or something like that ?

 

[anonimo]

are you a fucking salafi or something like that ?

No. Now jog on.

 

[World]

I am tempted to explore how you have made sense of Islam's stance on slavery, offensive Jihad etc. However, I don't think you can handle the truth and will only return to Gaalnimo.

Keep it real please, and avoid the temptation to dilute the Deen.

Slavery was so deeply engrained in the pre modern industrial way of life in all cultures around the world that abolishing it completely could not be accomplished. However, Islam limited the sources of slavery to only one, and the means of manumitting these limited sources of slaves was increased exponentially. Islam also encouraged the freeing of slaves by making it one of the greatest deeds a Muslim can do.

That’s Islam’s stance on slavery. Only extremists and fanatics would portray Islam as a religion that encourages the mass enslavement of humans.

 

[anonimo]

Slavery was so deeply engrained in the pre modern industrial way of life in all cultures around the world that abolishing it completely could not be accomplished. However, Islam limited the sources of slavery to only one, and the means of manumitting these limited sources of slaves was increased exponentially. Islam also encouraged the freeing of slaves by making it one of the greatest deeds a Muslim can do.

That’s Islam’s stance on slavery. Only extremists and fanatics would portray Islam as a religion that encourages the mass enslavement of humans.

Have I argued that Islam encourages the mass enslavement of humans? If not, why bloody quote me?

I did not want to elaborate on the fact that slavery, and the concubinage that goes with it is Xalal in Islam because it was uncalled for in this thread. She probably knows this but might have been Fatwa shopping to ease her conscience.

Unlike many Muslims, I have no issues with the Islamic institution of slavery. It is a religiously ordained practice that has rules and regulations dictating how slaves can be acquired, and what can be done to them. Obviously slavery cannot be reinstated in Muslim countries, Mauritania being the exception, because of the abolition of slavery as a result of direct and indirect pressure from the West. Most Muslims are ignorant of the fact that Western colonial powers abolished slavery in Muslim countries that were under their rule. The Bantus in LS, LJ, MJ would still be in bondage today were it not for the Italians. Saudi Arabia only abolished slavery in the 20th century after being pressurised by Western powers.

I have a 'take it or leave it' approach to the Deen. I do not delude myself by trying to sugarcoat Islamic truths so as to make them more palatable. If it unambiguously says so in the Deen, I shut my mind and accept it without reservation. Can you say the same? From Xoosdhere's thread, I detected that you have insecurities about the Islamic institution of slavery. No need to be ashamed of what is Xalal. If it really bothers you that much, then you really need to do some soul searching.

 

[MadNomad]

You never left Islam.

If you truly leave Islam, you know that it's a hoax and never return to it.

Lol, no. This is exactly the same rhetoric some Muslims pull on apostates. "If you truly ever were a Muslim you wouldn't have left", it's fallacious logic.

 

[AussieHustler]

It was awful and depressing. I prefer worrying about accumulating ajar than to constantly wonder if I'm wrong.

Shamis

Being judgemental, it seems to me that you approached it philosophically by the Pascal's Wager, which means, I believe god because if god doesn't exist, I lose nothing; but, if he does, I gain everything. What sect? Most born again of the major religions become extreme. If it makes you content, good for you mate.

 

[xisaabiye]

Have I argued that Islam encourages the mass enslavement of humans? If not, why bloody quote me?

I did not want to elaborate on the fact that slavery, and the concubinage that goes with it is Xalal in Islam because it was uncalled for in this thread. She probably knows this but might have been Fatwa shopping to ease her conscience.

Unlike many Muslims, I have no issues with the Islamic institution of slavery. It is a religiously ordained practice that has rules and regulations dictating how slaves can be acquired, and what can be done to them. Obviously slavery cannot be reinstated in Muslim countries, Mauritania being the exception, because of the abolition of slavery as a result of direct and indirect pressure from the West. Most Muslims are ignorant of the fact that Western colonial powers abolished slavery in Muslim countries that were under their rule. The Bantus in LS, LJ, MJ would still be in bondage today were it not for the Italians. Saudi Arabia only abolished slavery in the 20th century after being pressurised by Western powers.

I have a 'take it or leave it' approach to the Deen. I do not delude myself by trying to sugarcoat Islamic truths so as to make them more palatable. If it unambiguously says so in the Deen, I shut my mind and accept it without reservation. Can you say the same? From Xoosdhere's thread, I detected that you have insecurities about the Islamic institution of slavery. No need to be ashamed of what is Xalal. If it really bothers you that much, then you really need to do some soul searching.

The slave trades and slavery that happened in much of the "Islamic" world wasn't based on Islam, same with the concubines aquired. Many wars were waged that didn't' fulfill the conditions of jihad within the bounds of islamic jurisprudence thus the booties of that war(concubines, POWS("slaves"), etc) were illegitimate.

 

[Generalissimo]

The slave trades and slavery that happened in much of the "Islamic" world wasn't based on Islam, same with the concubines aquired. Many wars were waged that didn't' fulfill the conditions of jihad within the bounds of islamic jurisprudence thus the booties of that war(concubines, POWS("slaves"), etc) were illegitimate.

Are you trying to say that having sex with your female slaves is haram?

 

[xisaabiye]

Are you trying to say that having sex with your female slaves is haram?

If that's what you got from what I wrote then you shouldn't be discussing this

 

[supz]

Good luck @Shamis . Albeit quite the odd decision.

 

[anonimo]

The slave trades and slavery that happened in much of the "Islamic" world wasn't based on Islam, same with the concubines aquired. Many wars were waged that didn't' fulfill the conditions of jihad within the bounds of islamic jurisprudence thus the booties of that war(concubines, POWS("slaves"), etc) were illegitimate.

You think I don't know that. For example, the The East African Slave Trade that supplied Southern Somalia was un-Islamic as it was motivated by profit. The Omanis conducted raids solely for the purpose of acquiring human merchandise. Even the slaves that Somalis captured during their expansionist wars with the Oromo pagans were not Xalal. They mainly waged war for resources such as grazing land, not out of religious piety.

I was referring to how slaves were acquired during the era of the righteous Caliphs, and in a few righteous jihads thereafter.

From a theoretical perspective, Islam permits slavery as long as the jihad is righteous. That is an undeniable fact that a lot of Muslims, particularly those raised in the West, try to gloss over or openly condemn despite the fact that it is clearly permitted in the Quran. Waa wada CONFUSED.COM!

I would hypothetically not want to own another human being nor do I like the institution of slavery however tempting it is to possess a Harem of young Buttiful nubile concubines with firm bodies; preferably light skinned Tigrayan Xabashas.

Nonetheless, I would not go as far as saying it is 'un-Islamic' or that it is morally wrong because as a slave of Allah who I am to go against the Quran. You are on the road to Kufr the moment you reject one Ayat of the Quran; some Muslims are ignorant about this fact.

 

[xisaabiye]

You think I don't know that. For example, the The East African Slave trade that supplied Southern Somalia was un-Islamic as it was motivated by profit. The Omanis conducted raids solely for the purpose of acquiring human merchandise. Even the slaves that Somalis captured during their expansionist wars with the Oromo pagans were not Xalal. They mainly waged war for resources such as grazing land, not out of religious piety.

I was referring to how slaves were acquired during the era of the righteous Caliphs, and in a few righteous jihads thereafter.

From a theoretical perspective, Islam permits slavery as long as the jihad is righteous. That is an undeniable fact that a lot of Muslims, particularly those raised in the West, try to gloss over or openly condemn despite the fact that it is clearly permitted in the Quran. Waa wada CONFUSED.COM!

I would hypothetically not want to own another human being nor do I like the institution of slavery however tempting it is to possess a Harem of young Buttiful nubile concubines with firm bodies; preferably light skinned Tigrayan Xabashas.

Nonetheless, I would not go as far as saying it is 'un-Islamic' or that it is morally wrong because as a slave of Allah who I am to go against the Quran. You are on the road to Kufr the moment you reject one Ayat of the Quran; several Muslims are ignorant about this fact.

Even using the word slavery is a stretch. The only way you can acquire them is through being POW in a legitimate jihaad against the kufaar, this was almost never the case. It's either they're POWS or face death, I think being a POW is the more merciful route. There's too many rulings after you acquire the pow, many didn't maintain these or care to & will face Allah for using Islam as a means

 

[World]

Even using the word slavery is a stretch. The only way you can acquire them is through being POW in a legitimate jihaad against the kufaar, this was almost never the case. It's either they're POWS or face death, I think being a POW is the more merciful route. There's too many rulings after you acquire the pow, many didn't maintain these or care to & will face Allah for using Islam as a means

Let's say that a Muslim army is fighting against a Christian army and the Muslim army defeats them and conquers all of their land, how can the Muslim army acquire concubines if there were no women fighting in the Christian army?

 

[anonimo]

Even using the word slavery is a stretch. The only way you can acquire them is through being POW in a legitimate jihaad against the kufaar, this was almost never the case. It's either they're POWS or face death, I think being a POW is the more merciful route. There's too many rulings after you acquire the pow, many didn't maintain these or care to & will face Allah for using Islam as a means

POW? The female slaves of the Prophet SAWS Sahabah, Tabicin....were not necessarily carrying swords in a battle field when they were captured. Spare me the semantics bro.

 

[World]

Have I argued that Islam encourages the mass enslavement of humans? If not, why bloody quote me?

I did not want to elaborate on the fact that slavery, and the concubinage that goes with it is Xalal in Islam because it was uncalled for in this thread. She probably knows this but might have been Fatwa shopping to ease her conscience.

Unlike many Muslims, I have no issues with the Islamic institution of slavery. It is a religiously ordained practice that has rules and regulations dictating how slaves can be acquired, and what can be done to them. Obviously slavery cannot be reinstated in Muslim countries, Mauritania being the exception, because of the abolition of slavery as a result of direct and indirect pressure from the West. Most Muslims are ignorant of the fact that Western colonial powers abolished slavery in Muslim countries that were under their rule. The Bantus in LS, LJ, MJ would still be in bondage today were it not for the Italians. Saudi Arabia only abolished slavery in the 20th century after being pressurised by Western powers.

I have a 'take it or leave it' approach to the Deen. I do not delude myself by trying to sugarcoat Islamic truths so as to make them more palatable. If it unambiguously says so in the Deen, I shut my mind and accept it without reservation. Can you say the same? From Xoosdhere's thread, I detected that you have insecurities about the Islamic institution of slavery. No need to be ashamed of what is Xalal. If it really bothers you that much, then you really need to do some soul searching.

Like I said, many extremists from Daesh and likeminded have a mentality that slavery MUST be brought back and that enslaving is a great sunnah when the reality is that it's only permissible(mubah).

The Bantus were kidnapped from Tanzania and Mozambique by Omanis and weren't even acquired in a war. The Omanis didn't even want Islam to spread into the interior of the Swahili coast because it would have reduced their main sources of slaves.

 

[anonimo]

Like I said, many extremists from Daesh and likeminded have a mentality that slavery MUST be brought back and that enslaving is a great sunnah when the reality is that it's only permissible(mubah).

Me Don Care Bout Dem.

Why mention them?