After much prayer

[VixR]

I get you bro, but it has been proven that it is not safe for girls to give birth in their early teens if they are physically underdeveloped. Just because they can conceive does not mean that they are ready. In the developed world, some girls are starting to get their periods before the age of ten. Does that mean they are ready to have children?

It's interesting that even despite knowing all this, you're content to accept it as the ultimate truth and keep the door shut, despite your inherent (and in this case obviously correct) reservations. Child marriage isn't some theoretical in the Muslim world as we're discussing it here. It's reality. Heck, it's prophetic example.

 

[xisaabiye]

I get you bro, but it has been proven that it is not safe for girls to give birth in their early teens if they are physically underdeveloped. Just because they can conceive does not mean that they are ready. In the developed world, some girls are starting to get their periods before the age of ten. Does that mean they are ready to have children?

Forget physically fit, women in the west aren't mentally fit to have children until their mid to late 20's imo My 11 y/o cousins back home are far more mature & wise then the average 17-18 y/o in the west, although they lack basic education. I'm not saying people should marry young, I'm just stating that it's a modern thing that this is viewed as morally wrong, same with other contentions people have with religion. I'm amazed that we take morals from modern times as a standard for belief/disbelief whilst we arguably live in the most morally bankrupt society in written history

 

[xisaabiye]

It's interesting that even despite knowing all this, you're content to accept it as the ultimate truth and keep the door shut, despite your inherent (and in this case obviously correct) reservations. Child marriage isn't some theoretical in the Muslim world as we're discussing it here. It's reality. Heck, it's prophetic example.

Why do you limit it to muslims? & why do you limit your point of reference to today? Marrying a pubescent person was deemed legal everywhere at every-time, regardless of religion. It's good to take in history in its totality. I refuse to believe as humans that we are more morally sound today then we were in the past. We disallow the marriage of two pubescent mature individuals, but allow simulation of rape() & all sorts of vileness to be open to the public. Polygamy is evil and illegal, while promiscuity is merely frowned upon. The west mastered the embellishing of immorality and admonishment of nobility

 

[VixR]

You couldn't do it because you scratched too deep in your search for the truth. Like I said before, I do not let my mind wander into that abyss. I just take it as it is or else I will be opening a pandora's box. I have chosen to keep that door permanently shut but I can understand where you are coming from.

When it comes to some Islamic facts such as slavery or child marriage, I adopt a balancing act. Cannot bring myself to deny that they have a religious foundation as the evidence is overwhelming.

By new identity, I was referring to the fact that something has to fill the avoid that leaving Islam creates. Being a Muslim becomes part of one's identity as the Somali cultural identity is intertwined with Islam. But I guess it depends on how culturally 'Somali' one was to begin with.

I can understand your stance as well, based on all the things you've said, particularly the losses you listed might come out of it. But there's no such thing as scratching too deep. It's either right or wrong, and if it's right it will stand up to scrutiny. That is my mentality.

At least you're honest. Believe me, it's refreshing.

The void is filled, like I said earlier, with whatever you find meaning in. As people have increasingly become more and more knowledgeable and critical of blind belief, they've been inventing new meanings for their lives.That's why existentialism is so rampant.

 

[VixR]

Why do you limit it to muslims? & why do you limit your point of reference to today? Marrying a pubescent person was deemed legal everywhere at every-time, regardless of religion. It's good to take in history in its totality. I refuse to believe as humans that we are more morally sound today then we were in the past. We disallow the marriage of two pubescent mature individuals, but allow simulation of rape() & all sorts of vileness to be open to the public. Polygamy is evil and illegal, while promiscuity is merely frowned upon. The west mastered the embellishing of immorality and admonishment of nobility

Operative word: Was.

I'm not being selective with history. History is neutral ground, but in the case of a religious figurehead taking a 9 year old bride and his example being considered sunnah is concerned, suddenly the phenomenon is no longer specific to the confines of historical context, is it? Its instead mimicked in current times. The same goes for sexual slavery, which lives on in Quranic verses. You can't effectively use the history card here, but I'm sure you knew that even before you started typing.

The morals of today and the morals of the past aren't even in the same league as each other. Not even close. Anything we have today in terms of abuse, violence and societal decay pales in comparison to the vivid tapestry of the human past, which is documented btw, if you care to read about our 'nobility' in full display.

And we don't disallow the marriage of two pubescent individuals provided their parents agree to the nuptials as the guardians of the legally underaged.

Interesting that you're concerned with and equivocate the simulation of sex in with rape, but not so concerned with actual divinely-ordained rape of sex slaves.

Polygamy is of no benefit to society, that is why it's illegal. It's literally of detriment if you take an objective look at it in Muslim societies, and no one wants to fund your multi-household project.

 

[El padrone]

maasha Allah! hit my luuq abaayo i will bless u and teach u some islamic shortcuts to jannah and khayr

 

[xisaabiye]

Operative word: Was.

I'm not being selective with history. History is neutral ground, but in the case of a religious figurehead taking a 9 year old bride and his example being considered sunnah is concerned, suddenly the phenomenon is no longer specific to the confines a historical context, is it? Its instead mimicked in current times. The same goes for sexual slavery, which lives on in Quranic verses. You can't effectively use the history card here, but I'm sure you knew that even before you started typing.

The morals of today and the morals of the past aren't even in the same league as each other. Not even close. Anything we have today in terms of abuse, violence and societal decay pales in comparison to the vivid of the human past, which are documented btw, if you care to read about our 'nobility' in full display.

And we don't disallow the marriage of two pubescent individuals provided their parents agree to the nuptial as the guardians of the legally underaged.

Interesting that you're concerned with and equivocate the simulation of sex in with rape, but not so concerned with actual divinely-ordained rape of sex slaves.

Polygamy is of no benefit to society, that is why it's illegal. It's literally of detriment if you take an objective look at it in Muslim societies, and no one wants to fund your multi-household project.

The marriage being consummated at the age of puberty is what is recorded, nothing wrong with a pubescent marrying another pubescent regardless of age. I have cousins who are fully mature at the age of 11/12 & are married by 14-15. Like I said, your moral compass is based on what your recipient state told you was moral/immoral. I'm very logical & I take time & place in to context. A 15 y/o in Somalia is much more able to birth & raise a family than a 15 y/o in Canada.

"Sex slaves" as you put it is not within the Islamic premise. P.O.W. are, as long as the conditions of jihaad are met. POWS have their own rulings, me & anonimo discussed that previously, however brief. You probably, like most have a fox news understanding of Islamic jurisprudence hence you using fox news terminology "sex slaves"

"Polygamy is of no benefit to society, that is why it's illegal" So they made it illegal because it has no benefit to society Prove to me verbatim that that's why it was made illegal.

 

[xisaabiye]

Anyways we took this girls thread on a tangent so im done, Obviously the gaalo didn't want to let her go
Once again welcome back Shamis

 

[VixR]

The marriage being consummated at the age of puberty is what is recorded, nothing wrong with a pubescent marrying another pubescent regardless of age. I have cousins who are fully mature at the age of 11/12 & are married by 14-15. Like I said, your moral compass is based on what your recipient state told you was moral/immoral. I'm very logical & I take time & place in to context. A 15 y/o in Somalia is much more able to birth & raise a family than a 15 y/o in Canada.

"Sex slaves" as you put it is not within the Islamic premise. P.O.W. are, as long as the conditions of jihaad are met. POWS have their own rulings, me & anonimo discussed that previously, however brief. You probably, like most have a fox news understanding of Islamic jurisprudence hence you using fox news terminology "sex slaves"

"Polygamy is of no benefit to society, that is why it's illegal" So they made it illegal because it has no benefit to society Prove to me verbatim that that's why it was made illegal.

So bc of hardship and war (casual and constant loss of life) in Somalia, and children being forced to grow up far too quickly unlike Western children, instead seeing that as an obvious DISPARITY, you're content and sick enough to 'brag' that 11/12 year old children are so-called "fully mature' and to brag that your blood relative was ''ready for marriage'' at 14?

 

[xisaabiye]

So bc of hardship and war (casual and constant loss of life) in Somalia, and children being forced to grow up far too quickly unlike Western children, instead seeing that DISPARITY , you're content and sick enough to brag that 11/12 year old children are so-called "fully mature' and to brag that your blood relative was 'ready for marriage' at 14.

My point went over your head lol, her maturity was in relation to her mental state of maturity & that of a westerner her age.

Anyways lets end it here, the girls thread was swamped

 

[VixR]

My point went over your head lol, her maturity was in relation to her mental state of maturity & that of a westerner her age.

Anyways lets end it here, the girls thread was swamped

A 11/12 is not mentally mature, you wasaq.

Everything you've said is bullshit.

You'd think in terms of your own, you'd actually have some kind of sympathy, but its not like I didn't know the chest-beating superiority on here is completely fake.

Western children are being spared of those awful realities bc they've fought for their children and have laws protecting them, meanwhile these kids back home facing hardship and marrying in childhood are perfectly par for course in your book, because they're 'more mature', and it's not like I even expect much from ppl like you, but I certainly didn't expect you to use it in some kind of favorable light

 

[supz]

The marriage being consummated at the age of puberty is what is recorded, nothing wrong with a pubescent marrying another pubescent regardless of age. I have cousins who are fully mature at the age of 11/12 & are married by 14-15. Like I said, your moral compass is based on what your recipient state told you was moral/immoral. I'm very logical & I take time & place in to context. A 15 y/o in Somalia is much more able to birth & raise a family than a 15 y/o in Canada.

"Sex slaves" as you put it is not within the Islamic premise. P.O.W. are, as long as the conditions of jihaad are met. POWS have their own rulings, me & anonimo discussed that previously, however brief. You probably, like most have a fox news understanding of Islamic jurisprudence hence you using fox news terminology "sex slaves"

"Polygamy is of no benefit to society, that is why it's illegal" So they made it illegal because it has no benefit to society Prove to me verbatim that that's why it was made illegal.

Bloody hell . The girls are not physically ready to give birth at that age. Its physically taxing on their bodies. A lot of girls die around that age when they get pregnant because their pelvises are not matured. There are more complication with birth. Its been proven.http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs364/en/ . Not to mention the social implications of giving birth at that age. Muslims crack me up sometimes.

 

[anonimo]

It's interesting that even despite knowing all this, you're content to accept it as the ultimate truth and keep the door shut, despite your inherent (and in this case obviously correct) reservations. Child marriage isn't some theoretical in the Muslim world as we're discussing it here. It's reality. Heck, it's prophetic example.

Some of the reasons why the door is shut are too personal for me to disclose in a public forum. Furthermore, neither philosophy or science can replace the spiritual and moral void that apostasy brings. I will be a dead man walking.

I can understand your stance as well, based on all the things you've said, particularly the losses you listed might come out of it. But there's no such thing as scratching too deep. It's either right or wrong, and if it's right it will stand up to scrutiny. That is my mentality.

At least you're honest. Believe me, it's refreshing.

The void is filled, like I said earlier, with whatever you find meaning in. As people have increasingly become more and more knowledgeable and critical of blind belief, they've been inventing new meanings for their lives.That's why existentialism is so rampant.

Blind faith can never stand up to scrutiny. Those of us that are thinkers by nature, and have grown up in an academic environment that encourages critical thinking are bound to find faults and inconsistencies.

 

[VixR]

I'm still bewildered that he said a goddamn 11 y.o is mentally mature.

What the f*ck is wrong with these people..

I wouldn't have said that in my wildest dreams even if I was devout.

 

[supz]

Some of the reasons why the door is shut are too personal for me to disclose in a public forum. Furthermore, neither philosophy or science can replace the spiritual and moral void that apostasy brings. I will be a dead man walking.



Blind faith can never stand up to scrutiny. Those of us that are thinkers by nature, and have grown up in an academic environment that encourages critical thinking are bound to find faults and inconsistencies.

Thats crazy walle. It won't be long before you crack.

 

[xisaabiye]

I'm still bewildered that he said a goddamn 11 y.o is mentally mature.

What the f*ck is wrong with these people..

I wouldn't have said that in my wildest dreams even if I was devout.

You'ra a goof. Like I said it's relative to where you live. My 11/12 y/o cousins take care of my grandma cooking,cleaning, and attend to her medical needs. My 11/12 year old nieces and nephews play video games and couldn't be responsible for their own breakfast. Hence the former being more mature than the latter

Bloody hell . The girls are not physically ready to give birth at that age. Its physically taxing on their bodies. A lot of girls die around that age when they get pregnant because their pelvises are not matured. There are more complication with birth. Its been proven.http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs364/en/ . Not to mention the social implications of giving birth at that age. Muslims crack me up sometimes.

Maybe you lack reading but implied marriage and consummation of marriage not giving birth. You atheists clearly have comprehension problem

 

[anonimo]

Forget physically fit, women in the west aren't mentally fit to have children until their mid to late 20's imo My 11 y/o cousins back home are far more mature & wise then the average 17-18 y/o in the west, although they lack basic education. I'm not saying people should marry young, I'm just stating that it's a modern thing that this is viewed as morally wrong, same with other contentions people have with religion. I'm amazed that we take morals from modern times as a standard for belief/disbelief whilst we arguably live in the most morally bankrupt society in written history

Who talked about morality bro? Or the differences in maturity between Western women/girls and those based back home? Stick to the content of my post cuz and allow the flawed arguments.

 

[VixR]

Some of the reasons why the door is shut are too personal for me to disclose in a public forum. Furthermore, neither philosophy or science can replace the spiritual and moral void that apostasy brings. I will be a dead man walking.



Blind faith can never stand up to scrutiny. Those of us that are thinkers by nature, and have grown up in an academic environment that encourages critical thinking are bound to find faults and inconsistencies.

I gotta say, you sound close to the precipice

Well, you know yourself better than I do, so I won't argue with you on how it would affect you

 

[supz]

You'ra a goof. Like I said it's relative to where you live. My 11/12 y/o cousins take care of my grandma cooking,cleaning, and attend to her medical needs. My 11/12 year old nieces and nephews play video games and couldn't be responsible for their own breakfast. Hence the former being more mature than the latter



Maybe you lack reading but implied marriage and consummation of marriage not giving birth. You atheists clearly have comprehension problem

"A 15 year old in somalia is much more able to birth and raise a family than a 15 year old in canada". This was from your previous reply. And I have a problem with reading comprehension.

 

[anonimo]

Thats crazy walle. It won't be long before you crack.

Alxamdulillah, I don't tempt fate nor am I a yute. Life forces you to find a balance or condemns you to a life of misery.