Lofi99
LOFI HIGH
Ahahhahhahahahahahaha
I know she pissed you off don't worry people are mentally ill .
Im laughing so hard Jesus who asks some shit like that wallahi people are sick.
Would Ethiopia fall due to the current situation?
- Thread starter Qofwalan
- Start date
Ahahhahhahahahahahaha
I know she pissed you off don't worry people are mentally ill .
Im laughing so hard Jesus who asks some shit like that wallahi people are sick.
CanoGeel
"Show respect to all people, but grovel to none"
U right. There was a systematic land and resource grab by highlanders
"Conflict has escalated between Anyuak, resettled highlanders, and Nuer, at the Sudanese border since the end of 2003; nearly 200 people were killed and 10,000 were displaced at the end of January 2004 in that area. One of the main causes of the conflict is the fact that for more than two decades the population has been steadily increasing and overcrowding has become a serious issue in the Gambella region. Since the 1980s, many highlanders have been resettled in this fertile western part of the country. Moreover, the influx of Nuer refugees from eastern Sudan has contributed to population overcrowding in the area. However, the conflict is not only between the Anyuak and resettled highlanders/Nuer;
the Anyuak have been accusing the Ethiopian government of helping the resettled highlanders, who control both political and economic resources in the area (Hagmann and Mulugeta 2008). Besides this, the Ethiopian government has been attempting to explore oil in the region. The Anyuak feel that they are being gradually displaced from their traditional lands. Moreover, in December 2003, when the highlander turned on the Anyuak, about 300 people were killed."
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Nilotic
VIP
Do you have any recent data on the demographics of Gambella? The Nuer and Anyuak seem to be pretty prominent in the political landscape in Gambella and there hasn't been instances of violence since the early 2000s.
Nilotic
VIP
I looked more into the matter and it seems as though I made a grave error in judgement regarding the history of Government supported ethnic contingent violence in Gambella; I was wrong and I retract my earlier statements that characterised it as merely a conflict between the Gajaak Nuer and the Anyuak.
I think the only mentally ill people are non Somalis on a Somali forum, weird.
An easy google find, also in many history books and published scientific reports.
They were discussing it in a clubhouse room earlier, that’s why I asked when I saw a random south Sudanese in a Somali forum.
Nilotic
VIP
If it's so "easy" to find evidence for your claim, then you won't have any issues with providing mounds of grit-edged evidence for it, would you?
Look, you obviously feel some type of way about other Africans and I can't change that.
It is not everyday that one writes 2 or 3 paragraphs and then gets an Essay as a reply, congrats for being the number one when i comes to writing nonsense :D
First of all, why do speak about slave raids as if North Sudanese were the only ones who used to enslave southern sudanese in the 19th century? Sudan, as a counry, did not even exist in the 19th century. Sudan or the region on which modern Sudan sits on today was politically controlled by the ottoman empire and Egypt. North Sudanese had little to no power after the Ottoman invasion of 1821 and the defeat of Sennar. Yes you had those big Sudanese slave masters like Zubeir Pasha who were heavily involved in the slave trade Southern Sudanese, people from Darfur and slaves from Chad etc... but Sudanese people on average were nothing but farmers at that time.
And lol at fiercly joining the Turks and Egyptians hurting Southern Sudan, did you know that the Turks had to ''Invade'' Sudan militarily to conrol us? We as Northern Sudanese hated the Turks and their Egyptian puppets to death. Why did the Mahdist revolution start in the 1880s? It was to kick out those invaders who used to collect the taxes forcefully from the Northern Sudanese farmers and only cared about themselves. Sudanese people lived much better off under British rule than those corrupt Turkish warlords. The whole Mahdist war to the point of Killing Gordon Pasha in 1885 was to become independent and remove those foreign powers from Sudan. Regardless of what type of counry we became after, independence was the aim. The Mahdist were also planning on following those forces inside Egypt, but by then it became a British protectorate. So please stop this nonsense of ''collaboration'' with the Turks against Southern Sudan.
and lol about your struggle starting before oil was discovered. Your ''Aim'' in the 1950s when the war started and before the discovery of oil was to get fairer representation in government. At that time, It was all about the south becoming more autonomous within the greater Sudan as you call it. Just like the situation in Darfur today. There was no talk about Independence and guess what? that is exactly what you got in the 1972 Addis Ababa agreement, AUTONOMY. However, it was only after the 70s/80s when oil discoveries started getting announced and just at around that time, independence ideas sarted appearing. It is interesting how throughout the war though, Garang always maintained the idea of a NEW Sudan. but after the late 90's and early 00's and Garangs Death and the SPLA independence Mafia took over, the isolation of Sudan internationally, sanctions, Israel and US support for the south increasing, that is when you guess were like hey, lets go indepedent with the oil! without doing any homework lmao
LOL how the hell could you be with the Soviets if you weren't even independent?? XD. Sudan was the largest military aid recipient in Sub Saharan Africa during th days of Nimeiry. Nimeiry had excellent relations with the west. However, his reign was during the peaceful times in Sudan i.e. the 70s/early 80s. I have no information of what happened to US assistance after the fall fo Nimery by the people in 1985. All that is irrelevant anyway so what are you on about? during the majority of the war, Sudan was ruled by the Bashir dictatorship and under sanctions and economic embargos. How coudl you possibly state that the US was supporting Sudan during the war lmao.
and lol at Saddam and Arab conflicts, What was Nimeiry?... A dictator.... who was Bashir? A dictator... The people had no ''say'' in what should or should not happen. Nimery's reign was at time when Arabs actually believed in unity and supporting each other. Egyptians fighting in Yemen, Saudis in Lebanon, Sudanese in Iraq etc... you name it. Nimery was good friend of Egypts Nasser (leader of arab unity cause) and Nasser supported Sudan heavily, he even bombed the island of Abba at the request of Nimeiry because of the Mahdis Answar rebellion. Also bare in mind that Nimery was pro West and pro Arab all the way. He even changed Sudans flag into pan arab colours. Nimery never cared about Africa because he saw no good in them. He believed that the best way to develop was to follow the west and the arab world. That was the thinking of back then.
The average Sudanese today could not care less about the arab cause or what happens in Libya, Yemen, Syria etc... we even supported establishing relations with Israel last year because we put Sudans interests before anythign else. Trump and West promised economic, diplomatic and military support under a civilian leadership which is what happened eventually. That is why Biden, Macron etc... are heavily pushing for the military to move on.
Lets make the point clear, yes the war started before the discovery of oil. However, you calls for Independence only startd ''After'' the discovery of oil and when the North was economically and politically isolated. So yes, you only called for indendence considering the very same reasons I mentioned. You would never have called for Indendence if the south was educated enough to know that this would be the oucome. From year one your SPLA Mafia who lied to you stole $4 billion. Price of oil collapsed, a civil war between one another more violent than even the Sudanese civil war.
What nonsense are you speaking? The Mahdis were too busy fighting wars with Ethiopia, Egypt and Eurpean powers. Surely the Mahdis with their force at the time, who even defeated Ethiopia being outnumbered 3 to 1 and killign their emperor, woudl not be afraid of going into the south. Are you claiming that Southern Sudanese were muslims back then? lmao the Mahdist revolution was an Islamic revolution. It was muslims from East, West and cenral Sudan fighting the foreigners. please elaborate how the south actually contributed to that fight or fought the Brits lmao. you guys were pretty much a nobody throughout those times. Ali Dinar, Al 7ilu, The Khalifa, the Mahdi etc....all those men who led the fight, I never heard or read about anyone named ''Deng'' being around at those times.
Again, the war started in Sudan in 1983 when Nimeiry, as a dictator, tore it apart. Something in which the people never had any say. So it isn't something that you could hold as a grudge against the North Sudanese. If there was democracy, Southern Sudanese would be given the treatment they truly deserved as citizens of Sudan. The barbaric intrduction of Sharia law in a country where 30% of the population was no muslim was nothing short of stupidity.
Now coming back to your civil war estimates, it was called the ''Sudanese'' civil war. Not the South Sudanese civil war of what you have today. 2 million died during that war, are you so small minded to think that it was only South Sudanese who died during that war? are you really assuming that no North Sudanese soul was lost in 25 years? The war reached Blue Nile, Kordofan, and even eastern Sudan. How many Northern Sudanese families lost a loved one during that war? you can't just assume that 100,000 deaths a year were only south sudanese. These deaths were mainly due to starvations considering the actions of both your ''own'' SPLA and Sudans government at that time.
It was a fully blown civil war in which casualties were thanks to actions made by both the government and your own SPLA. Even your own civil war, in which 400,000 died within 5 years and less were due to very similar reasons.
lol at only supporting Garang theoritically. Do you even know the meaning of a ''Dictatorship''? it means that everything in the Media was controlled by a certain group. If you are a child born in 1980, being a teenager in the 90s listening to news that urges you to join the fight against the enemy supported by Israel and the west. 90% were lies, but what does that poor soul know? little did we know that so many people in Southern Sudan did not even own cloths, let alone getting tanks from Israel. Sudan is no Rwanda, Sudan was the largest country in Africa at that time, nearly the size of western Europe. what happens on one side is ''far'' from being felt on the other side. So of course people in Khartoum, Port Sudan and Halfa etc... were FAR from what is happening in the South. Juba, which never fell to the SPLA, was also a very peacefull place. My mums family even used to live there in the 70s/80s.
Sudans army and paramilitary is not divided into tribal lines as you are stating. a soldier or volunteer is a soldier or volunteer regardless of what region he is from. they were a uniform, that is all that matters. The war was never against South Sudanese, it was against the rebels in teh south. Rebels which had Northern Sudanse members like Yasir Arman and Malik Agar.
I feel sorry for he loved ones you lost, and I don't like talking about the war either. However, if we don’t talk about history then we will never learn. In the North we are still going through economic crisis and god help south sudan with the fighting that goes on over there. end of the day, I don't think we will ever agree on what happened. The separation of he south was an Epic disaster. If the 2 Sudans stayed together under the same propositions of seculrism that are offered today, we would all have been better off. Sudan already hosts over a million south sudanese refugees today, regardless of the political and economic instability today and they are welcome in their home country where they feel safe
End of the day, I am Sudanese and you are Sudanese. There is no country on earth that I care more about than South Sudan as regardless of who holds Juba, the South is a part of me. And no, I won't Shut up but you can respectfully do that yourself :D
It was a fully blown civil war in which casualties were thanks to actions made by both the government and your own SPLA. Even your own civil war, in which 400,000 died within 5 years and less were due to very similar reasons.
lol at only supporting Garang theoritically. Do you even know the meaning of a ''Dictatorship''? it means that everything in the Media was controlled by a certain group. If you are a child born in 1980, being a teenager in the 90s listening to news that urges you to join the fight against the enemy supported by Israel and the west. 90% were lies, but what does that poor soul know? little did we know that so many people in Southern Sudan did not even own cloths, let alone getting tanks from Israel. Sudan is no Rwanda, Sudan was the largest country in Africa at that time, nearly the size of western Europe. what happens on one side is ''far'' from being felt on the other side. So of course people in Khartoum, Port Sudan and Halfa etc... were FAR from what is happening in the South. Juba, which never fell to the SPLA, was also a very peacefull place. My mums family even used to live there in the 70s/80s.
Sudans army and paramilitary is not divided into tribal lines as you are stating. a soldier or volunteer is a soldier or volunteer regardless of what region he is from. they were a uniform, that is all that matters. The war was never against South Sudanese, it was against the rebels in teh south. Rebels which had Northern Sudanse members like Yasir Arman and Malik Agar.
I feel sorry for he loved ones you lost, and I don't like talking about the war either. However, if we don’t talk about history then we will never learn. In the North we are still going through economic crisis and god help south sudan with the fighting that goes on over there. end of the day, I don't think we will ever agree on what happened. The separation of he south was an Epic disaster. If the 2 Sudans stayed together under the same propositions of seculrism that are offered today, we would all have been better off. Sudan already hosts over a million south sudanese refugees today, regardless of the political and economic instability today and they are welcome in their home country where they feel safe
End of the day, I am Sudanese and you are Sudanese. There is no country on earth that I care more about than South Sudan as regardless of who holds Juba, the South is a part of me. And no, I won't Shut up but you can respectfully do that yourself :D
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Interesting how a thread about the current Ethiopian war turned into a fierce argument about what happened in the breakup of Sudan.
Nilotic
VIP
@Khalumi
I've just provided a source from an eminent historian detailing that not only did you in fact collaborate with the Turkiyya in order to subjugate the South for your own interests... the following source demonstrates that slave raids intensified under the Mahdists.
Had you actually bothered to do your due diligence... you would have found out quite easily that prominent Southerners, organisations and armed movements were explicitly secessionist in the 60s.
Anyway, here are sources directly contradicting your ignorant flights of fancy:
In what Disney, fairy dust, make believe world are you imagining, that State actors don't actively support non-State actors?
How do you suppose we received Israeli support in the 60s? Are the Houthis you were ordered to fight State actors? Gosh golly, how did Iran provide them with support?
I've just provided a source from an eminent historian detailing that not only did you in fact collaborate with the Turkiyya in order to subjugate the South for your own interests... the following source demonstrates that slave raids intensified under the Mahdists.
Had you actually bothered to do your due diligence... you would have found out quite easily that prominent Southerners, organisations and armed movements were explicitly secessionist in the 60s.
Anyway, here are sources directly contradicting your ignorant flights of fancy:
In what Disney, fairy dust, make believe world are you imagining, that State actors don't actively support non-State actors?
How do you suppose we received Israeli support in the 60s? Are the Houthis you were ordered to fight State actors? Gosh golly, how did Iran provide them with support?
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Nilotic
VIP
A people’s government is more often than not a reflection of their society.
A Nation's elite don’t just drop out of the sky or manifest themselves from another dimension — they are us… even if they are a little more corrupt or a little bit more murderous.
The zealots and dictators you're attempting to put the complete blame on... came from your socio-cultural environment; your households; your schools; and your institutions.
Our leaders are mostly representative of our societies; your attempt to deflect and to absolve yourself of any and all responsibility is laughably childish.
Your successes against the Ethiopians are altogether immaterial; the said successes obviously could not be replicated in a wholly different and very challenging ecological environment.
The Sudd and other swampy areas presented such a challenge that the British didn't pacify the South until the 1930s, so it shouldn't surprise you that we could handle the Madhists.
That is precisely the sort ignorant-derived arrogance that neccesitated Sudan's partition; it's a complete distillation of why things turned out the way they did.
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Nilotic
VIP
Continued:
Are you really going to compare the tens of thousands of soldiers lost on your side to the millions of civilians we lost?
The people of Blue Nile are essentially Southerners in the North in the same way that the Ngok Dinka of Abyei have been part of Kordofan since 1905; Blue Nile's Maban, Uduk, Burun, Gumuz, Komo and Opuo are ethnically Southerner and most of these tribes are also found in Upper Nile State, so framing their casualties as "Northern" is technically correct but a bit disingenuous.
The only people in the 'North' (not directly related to us) are the Nuba.
The Beja did not suffer to any notable degree as the insurgency was mostly dependent on over 5000 Southern troops.
Are you really going to compare the tens of thousands of soldiers lost on your side to the millions of civilians we lost?
The people of Blue Nile are essentially Southerners in the North in the same way that the Ngok Dinka of Abyei have been part of Kordofan since 1905; Blue Nile's Maban, Uduk, Burun, Gumuz, Komo and Opuo are ethnically Southerner and most of these tribes are also found in Upper Nile State, so framing their casualties as "Northern" is technically correct but a bit disingenuous.
The only people in the 'North' (not directly related to us) are the Nuba.
The Beja did not suffer to any notable degree as the insurgency was mostly dependent on over 5000 Southern troops.
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Nilotic
VIP
Did I not specify that U.S. military aid to Sudan was ceased in 1989? Is that not the year Bashir came to power? Are you somehow unaware of this?
No, you are far smarter than this, so don't pretend that the PDF was not mostly dominated by the various Baggara tribes.
You know that the ideal you've outlined is simply not in line with reality in any place in the global South -- especially not in Africa.
You cannot seriously tell me that most of the grunts in the SAF are Ja'alin or other riverain groups in Khartoum-Omdurman, Shendi and other areas around the center.
I appreciate your words of grace and condolence.
I was actually a unionist and was distraught when Garang died because it was obvious what would follow; there was nobody else that could have held the Country together and now the criminals in both Khartoum and Juba are coordinating their efforts.
I wanted us to use our complimentary resources to provide a decent life for all Sudanese; I wanted access to the sea; I wanted the excess waters of the South to provide for our people in Darfur; and for solar and hydropower in both areas to boost the quality of life for all Sudanese.
It's unfortunate that none of that resource sharing and coordination will be possible now.
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