WHY YOU LEFT THE DEEN

[Garaad diinle]

I don't know if i'm qualified to answer this question one must admit their lack of knowledge but i'l share what i know. First of there isn't anything about this in quran and sunnah as far as i know. The rules of war in islam is as follows.

"You will find a people who claim to have totally given themselves to God. Leave them to what they claim to have given themselves… Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the spoils, and do not be cowardly"

As you can see there is no such thing as the r word included. What your talking about is most likely is slavery in islam. The prisoner of war if not ransomed or freed by he who caught them are sold as slaves. Islam didn't have prisons so what they did with the captive is sell them to people were they worked under their master or prisoner much like prison labour.

What about the women. As i said i'm not very knowledgeable so you may read further on the topic. I read that the men must ask for permission to engage in intercourse and i read in another place that the women are seen as have been forcefully married to their master so they are considered a pseudo wife with less right for example they don't get maher but her children are free and not slaves where as in other cultures the children would also be seen as slaves.

conclusion.

So slavery is capitalism where prisons are privatized where everyone can get a prisoner for a price and the prisoner would do prison labour unless the prisoner wanna free himself at that point he would have to sign a contract with the master to free himself. Same goes for women with the sole exception that they're seen as pseudo wife with less rights than a free wife but her children if they're the children of the master are free children. Keep in mind slavery wasn't introduced by islam and was practiced by every single culture out there including christianity and judaism. Islam infact curbed down on many forms of slavery such as kidnap slaver, debt slavery or simply selling a free person.

There are rules as to how to treat a slaves in islam the prophet ﷺ said.

They are your brothers whom Allah has put under your authority, so if Allah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” [Bukhari 6050]

Slaves in islam became statesmen sultans and military commanders at some point. Many early esteemed muslim scholars that are respected were slaves themselves.

I forgot to add if a slave gets pregnant her status elevates and the master is not allowed to sell her and as i said her children are free but i also recall that she also becomes free.

 

[killerxsmoke]

I forgot to add if a slave gets pregnant her status elevates and the master is not allowed to sell her and as i said her children are free but i also recall that she also becomes free.

How does a woman even become a slave when they are not fighting in the battlefield

 

[Garaad diinle]

How does a woman even become a slave when they are not fighting in the battlefield

Well in some wars the came along with the army like the battle of hunayn but in most cases i think they're prison of war in siege warfare where a fort or a city is sieged.

 

[Internet Nomad]

I was told recently that during wars your allowed to rape the female prisoners of wars, I need you guys to tell me if that is true or not because that is one of my major doubts

The law allowed a master to have sexual relations with his female slave without a marriage contract, just as it allowed a man to have sexual relations with a free woman only with a marriage contract, but in neither case was the man allowed to rape the woman. A master was no more allowed by the law to rape his slave than a husband his wife. In the context of slavery, the Prophet’s (s) very last words was “al-Salat wa-mulk al-yamin” which means “Beware of neglecting prayer and beware how you treat your slaves.” The Prophet ( sallAllahu `aleihi wa sallam ) treated even a slap in the face of a female slave as an offense of which the required expiation was to free her on the spot.

The dignity of the human person is affirmed in the Qur’an in the verse:

{ وَلَقَدْ كَرَّمْنَا بَنِي آدَمَ }

{ wa la-qad karramna bani Adam.
We have indeed honored human beings. } Surat al-Israa, 17:70

Bro i struggled with this too but all i did more research on it for things to became clearer. Also islamic slavery and trans-alantic/arab slave trade are different. In islamic slavery you cannot capture or raid free men and women. Its only prisoners of war.Which made sense back then as there way no prison system. Also its up-to the muslim ruler to ban slavery or not within his nation.

 

[Internet Nomad]

If the Qur'an really allows men to rape thier slaves, then how come slave-owners are not included in the category that the believing women can not wear hijab in front of? Here are the relevant verses:

And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed. [24:31]
There is no blame upon women concerning their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons or their women or those their right hands possess. And fear Allah . Indeed Allah is ever, over all things, Witness. [33:55]

As you can see, God does not include the slave-girl's owner in the this category, so how is he allowed to have sex with her if he is not even allowed to see her without hijab?

If men really could rape their slave girls then how come God mandates that slaves must seek permission before entering a room during the times of day that the man is most likely to be undressed?

O you who have believed, let those whom your right hands possess and those who have not [yet] reached puberty among you ask permission of you [before entering] at three times: before the dawn prayer and when you put aside your clothing [for rest] at noon and after the night prayer. [These are] three times of privacy for you. There is no blame upon you nor upon them beyond these [periods], for they continually circulate among you - some of you, among others. Thus does Allah make clear to you the verses; and Allah is Knowing and Wise. [24:58]

If men really could have been able to rape their slaves, then how come the slaves are not allowed to see these men naked and must seek permission before entering their private quarters? How do they have sex then?

 

[Garaad diinle]

Slavery exist until this very day. You're probably on a phone with parts mined by child labour and slaves in the congos. If you're riding an electric car you're also benefiting from slavery. If you eating a chocolate you're eating the work of slaves. You're benefiting from slavery one way or another. In regard to women haven't you heard of s"x-trafficking? It's everywhere including the west and there is no crack down on it either. Slavery today is bigger than any other time in history. The 21st century are the biggest slavers in history the trans-atlantic slave trade looks cute in comparison.

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

Slavery exist until this very day. You're probably on a phone with parts mined by child labour and slaves in the congos. If you're riding an electric car you're also benefiting from slavery. If you eating a chocolate you're eating the work of slaves. You're benefiting from slavery one way or another. In regard to women haven't you heard of s"x-trafficking? It's everywhere including the west and there is no crack down on it either. Slavery today is bigger than any other time in history. The 21st century are the biggest slavers in history.

Slavery as an institution is nearly dead and illegal everywhere and its not bigger than before sxb, there are just more modern-day slaves numerically than before because earths population grew exponentially since the 19th century.

 

[Osiris1]

I also heard that the prophet SAW night journey to the heavens was inspired by a zoroastrian story but I tried looking around for it but couldn’t find it so I guess it isn’t true.

I read about that too. I think there was another Zoroastrian belief that has parallels to Islamic beliefs like the as-Siraat bridge and the Chivnat bridge in Zoroastrianism. Though in this case there’s no proof that the Zoroastrian version of the bridge dates older than the Islamic ones because of oral tradition.

 

[Garaad diinle]

Slavery as an institution is nearly dead and illegal everywhere and its not bigger than before sxb, there are just more modern-day slaves numerically than before because earths population grew exponentially since the 19th century.

It really doesn't matter since there is more slaves anyway. What good is it that slavery as an institution is gone if the number of slaves increased rather than decreased? Why don't countries crack down on slavery rather than buying slave product? It's all semantics at the end of the day there are more slaves today than any other time in history and everyone is benefiting from it rather than stopping it. You would see climate activist but where is the anti slavery activist? You wanna talk about women how about that there are historically speaking more women in s"x-trafficking today than there was in any other time in history. Just like there is neo colonialism a rebranding of colonialism there is a neo slavery plateable to the modern tast.

 

[Internet Nomad]

I read about that too. I think there was another Zoroastrian belief that has parallels to Islamic beliefs like the as-Siraat bridge and the Chivnat bridge in Zoroastrianism. Though in this case there’s no proof that the Zoroastrian version of the bridge dates older than the Islamic ones because of oral tradition.

You do recognise that there is a Hadith albeit a bit weak that states there was 124,000 prophets throughout history sent to every nation.Obviously all of these prophets were not named or had any major influence on the world like the named ones were. So whenever i see a similarity between islam and another faith i recognise maybe that faith started from a portion of truth and as time went on the faith got corrupted like christianity.

 

[Ozymandias]

I have nothing against Islam or Muslims, in fact I support them. I'm just not a muslim, due to theological differences. Waan ni taageera laakin idinka o dhan . Life would have been a lot easier for me if I was a muslim tbh, I could have been with a woman from my own ethnicity by now kkk.

 

[Osiris1]

It could also mean the possessor of two nations so that’s why many people believed he was Cyrus or Darius they were also monotheist and Josephus and the Bible talks about dhulqarnain see Daniel 8 and Josephus was known to hellenise Jewish history and the Greeks and romans hated the Persians.

The reason why it can’t be Cyrus or Darius is because they were religiously tolerant of idol worship and allowed many statues of pagan gods to stand in their empire. Dhul Qarnayn is described as a pious man who was a staunch monotheist, but according to the Cyrus Cylinders, Cyrus the great even showed respect to other God’s making him a mushrik and thus, not Dhul Qarnayn.

The story of Alexander in the Christianised telling of the story are pretty much word for word similiar to Dhul-Qarnayn.

• Alexander has been given power to rule this world by God.
• He travels far until he finds the edge of the world surrounded by murky water
• He reached a place between two mountains.
• He finds a people he cannot understand
• These people have no protection from the sun’s heat
• They complain to him about tribes of nomadic people named Gog & Magog harassing them.
• Alexander agree to build a huge wall to keep out these tribes.
• He constructs this wall out of iron and brass.​
• Before the world ends, these tribes will break through the wall and will start causing havoc.​

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

It really doesn't matter since there is more slaves anyway. What good is it that slavery as an institution is gone if the number of slaves increased rather than decreased? Why don't countries crack down on slavery rather than buying slave product? It's all semantics at the end of the day there are more slaves today than any other time in history and everyone is benefiting from it rather than stopping it. You would see climate activist but where is the anti slave activist?

I somewhat disagree as there are and were many anti slavery campaign and they have been successful in forcing all countries to have anti-slavery regulation and making the institution illegal even in the most poorest and unsafe of countries. I mean Somalia and Congo for example have like every where else in the world percentagewise much less slaves than historically. In fact I would argue the whole "modern slavery" stick is somewhat invented problem by the west, they define everything as 'slavery" nowadays like the migrant workers in gulf countries or many workers in africa who do get abused, but aren't really slaves in the historical sense.

 

[Barni]

I read about that too. I think there was another Zoroastrian belief that has parallels to Islamic beliefs like the as-Siraat bridge and the Chivnat bridge in Zoroastrianism. Though in this case there’s no proof that the Zoroastrian version of the bridge dates older than the Islamic ones because of oral tradition.

i guess since zoroastrianism is the oldest monotheistic religion, u will find some similarities with other abrahamic religions. But some r too uncannily similar to ignore. But inshallah we both get back on the deen, bcs if this continues after ramadan I might eventually just slip out.

 

[Osiris1]

You do recognise that there is a Hadith albeit a bit weak that states there was 124,000 prophets throughout history sent to every nation.Obviously all of these prophets were not named or had any major influence on the world like the named ones were. So whenever i see a similarity between islam and another faith i recognise maybe that faith started from a portion of truth and as time went on the faith got corrupted like christianity.

I always assumd that since we were also monotheists prior to Islam, maybe we had one of these Prophets sent to us.

But this also causes me doubt because if 124,000 Prophets were sent to this world, only 25 are mentioned by name. Coincidentally, all 25 of them are Middle Eastern with the majority being from the Levant/Palestine. Why did Allah only mention the Middle Eastern ones by name? Even books of revelation like the Zabur, Injeel, Torah, Quran and Suhuf were only sent to Middle Easterners. Why?

 

[Garaad diinle]

I somewhat disagree as there are and were many anti slavery campaign and they have been successful in forcing all countries to have anti-slavery regulation and making the institution illegal even in the most poorest and unsafe of countries. I mean Somalia and Congo for example have like every where else in the world percentagewise much less slaves than historically. In fact I would argue the whole "modern slavery" stick is somewhat invented problem by the west, they define everything as 'slavery" nowadays like the migrant workers in gulf countries or many workers in africa who do get abused, but aren't really slaves in the historical sense.

I'd say you're right to a point indeed the definition of slavery expanded but slavery is live and well. Can i ask for sources if you don't mind? I need to refresh my memory it's been a while since i read about the subject but here is very real examples of slavery known to western countries yet they do nothing about it.

 

[Internet Nomad]

I always assumd that since we were also monotheists prior to Islam, maybe we had one of these Prophets sent to us.

But this also causes me doubt because if 124,000 Prophets were sent to this world, only 25 are mentioned by name. Coincidentally, all 25 of them are Middle Eastern with the majority being from the Levant/Palestine. Why Allah only mention the Middle Eastern ones by name? Even books of revelation like the Zabur, Injeel, Torah, Quran and Suhuf were only sent to Middle Easterners. Why?

 

[Barni]

I always assumd that since we were also monotheists prior to Islam, maybe we had one of these Prophets sent to us.

But this also causes me doubt because if 124,000 Prophets were sent to this world, only 25 are mentioned by name. Coincidentally, all 25 of them are Middle Eastern with the majority being from the Levant/Palestine. Why Allah only mention the Middle Eastern ones by name? Even books of revelation like the Zabur, Injeel, Torah, Quran and Suhuf were only sent to Middle Easterners. Why?

I have read somewhere that waaqism was actually henotheistic. But we can never know for sure since there is no documentation on the religion. But i do know oromo waaq was henotheistic but they made it monotheistic due to the pressure from the habeshas.

 

[reer_ugaas_hussein]

I'd say you're right to a point indeed the definition of slavery expanded but slavery is live and well. Can i ask for sources if you don't mind? I need to refresh my memory it's been a while since i read about the subject but here is very real examples of slavery known to western countries yet they do nothing about it.

I don't deny there is still real slavery (surely in some countries like Congo) but I just think the number of modern day slaves is vastly exagerrated. When newspaprs talk about the number of modern day slaves they use western global indexes like WalkFree foundation https://www.walkfree.org/ who define for example prison labour in places like China and Iran or the forced military service in Eritrea as slavery, they would say there 400'000 slaves in eritrea ( https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/un-eritrea-slavery-human-rights-1.3621631) and even though I don't agree with what Afwerki is doing, I wouldn't put it in the same category as slavery. Much of the exaggerated number of slaves you can see in the my last link can be attributed to bias in western sources I believe who call prisoners in countries they hate like China or Iran "slaves". This why according to them there are 'millions' of slaves in China, Iran, and other countries they don't like because according to them the prisons there constitute "forced labour" whereas the ones in the US don't. https://reliefweb.int/report/world/...highest-rates-modern-slavery-and-most-victims

 

[El Nino]

All ”ex-muslims” here are faking it, they wouldn’t otherwise socialise with somalis who hold Allah close to their hearts. They are having a phase and will InshAllah outgrow it. May Allah increase yours and all of our imaan, Aamiin.