Why the Somali people are a failed nation.

[Zak12]

Let me show you something that perfectly encapsulates the mental and social primitiveness of Somalis. Below is an individual who recounts his experience being heavily discriminated against in his native lands of Kenya, and being denied an ID card purely because of his identity as a Somali, while the same Kenyan Government gave Indians theirs without hassle.



What if I told you that same individual is anti-central government and pro-clan fiefdom for Somalia? What if I told you that same individual is a loyal supporter of Ahmed Madobe purely out of qabil faan and Ogadenimo? A Somali who is treated like a stateless langaab in his native lands in Kenya uncritically supports one of the most corrupt, treasonous, environmentally destructive people in Somalia purely out of clannishness.



This is the problem with Somalis, this is why they're a failed people with a failed state, they support nepotism and corruption over competence and transparency, they support fragmentation and weakness over unity and strength. As the saying goes, and I'll repeat it, Allah(ﷻ) does not change the condition of a people until they change what's within their hearts. After almost 40 years of civil war, state collapse, famine, invasion, and puppet governments, the zero-sum clan politics still continues.

Kenya is a bad example. The government historically had oppressed Somalis all the way until just recently due to past separatism fears, not because Somalis are clannist. In fact, Kenya is a horrible example because the Somali counties of Kenya are among the least crime ridden and safest in the nation.

The current president Ruto was the one to eliminate the ID vetting system. That along with giving NFD more autonomy is the reason why Somalis are way more prominent in the Kenyan government. Of course certain groups in Kenya dislike those changes such as the Luo as they see it as Somalis challenging traditional power structures.

At the end of the day, outside of Ethiopia and Kenya, Somalis aren't heavily discriminated against anywhere in the world.

 

[Maintainnnin]

So u want an ogaden man from kenya and ethiopia to support a hawiye man hiding inside an ugandan tank

why do you look so upset if he supports his own kin , why do you think an abgaal supports hassan sheikh mahamoud

You’re the perfect example of my original post. Thanks for proving my point.

There is a critical mass of the Somali population that are zero-sum, anti-unity, clan fiefdom cheering, clan politics indulging, your people vs my people framing losers. Just a bunch of rats who fight in a sewer while the rest of humanity walks above them. They're unfortunately plentiful on this sub-forum, and it's why so many Somalis come on here optimistic but eventually become black-pilled, including me unfortunately.

 

[Idilinaa]

Holy cope bruh, do you hear yourself?? The complete collapse of governance, which entails the complete loss of control of the country's airspace and territorial waters is just evolution. The breakaway away of Somaliland, and Puntland while the south drowned in injustice from warlords and famine. None of this is enough of a criteria to label Somalia a failed state, no it's just evolution.

“Cope this, cope that” , that’s all you lot can say. It just shows you’re incels living off doom-posting and internet culture wars. That’s this generation: instead of going out and building something, losers like you sit here or on twitter crying.

Yes, what I said is true. Somalia evolved into a self-driven, locally controlled, innovative private sector and trade driven economy and a decentralized system that allows for regional development and self-governance. How is that failure?

In just 10 years, Somalia has achieved more with less capital, assistance, and resources than many Arab and African states have in their entire existence. We rebuilt our aviation sector, graduated thousands of pilots, reclaimed our airspace, and reestablished our maritime police and navy to combat disturbances at sea.

The south despite experiencing environmental crisis(drought & flood) and AS, it has increased food production through mechanizations, micro irrigation, created crop processing companies in jubba and shabelle and large industrial grain plant that creates various products. It even has very innovative and strong seed companies, that a global seed organizations even praises.

Somalia’s Surprisingly Strong Seed Sector - Seed Systems Group

The country of Somalia, in Africa’s northeastern region known as the Horn of Africa, has faced numerous challenges over the past several decades, including a

seedsystemsgroup.org

So miss me with that nonsense. If you want to wank off to centralized power where a small elite hoards everything in one capital while the state brutalizes its citizens into poverty and calls it “stability,” that’s on you.

The system you support is one of humiliation and disgrace, where Somalia exists as an idea but not as an actual country. America has a federal government; so does Germany. Somalia does not. Let me know the day Mexico invades California to steal America’s territorial waters and stays there to plant a treasonous puppet leader who deforests the state. Let me know the day Canada signs a deal with the breakaway state of New York for port access while Washington can only offer harsh words because of its lack of territorial control. Let me know the day when the Governor of Utah goes on foreign diplomatic visits to meet world leaders and signs unilateral trade and economic cooperation deals without Washington’s involvement.

No amount of sugarcoating or denialism can paint over the shameful state of Somalia or the failure of its people. You can continue to advocate for the “decentralized” status quo and be looked down upon, pitied, and viewed as lesser humans, walking the earth as honorless people without dignity, whose homeland is the poster child of failure, poverty, and anarchy, and whose people are seen as the gypsies of the world.

The system I support is one where Somalis across regions actively participate in governing and developing their own communities. A system that ensures a more equal distribution of wealth, power, and resources, and fosters inclusion and integration across clan and regional lines.

You think the U.S. or Germany just walked into functional federalism? No , both went through decades of negotiation, secession, infighting, and even outright wars before arriving at stable systems. The U.S., for example, was once a patchwork of confederations and rival state-building projects, only holding together with heavy financial and military backing , first from France during independence, then Britain later on.

And Somalis are not “disgraced.” On the contrary, they are some of the most defiant, adaptable, innovative, and resilient people alive. Take Ogaden: Somalis there fought relentlessly, and the end result was autonomy, peace, and rapid development. Compare that to Ethiopia , what did TPLF and Amhara gain from decades of brutality against others? Tigray was shattered, millions killed, and Amhara continues to spiral in chaos. Outside of Addis and even within it , Ethiopians live in substandard housing beside a single “showcase” corridor they can’t even afford. That is humiliation.

NFD Somalis, too, fought through military, political, and economic means. The result? They secured influence, ended ID vetting systems, dismantled discriminatory policies, and gained leverage. Why? Because Somalis’ strength forces respect.

Meanwhile, the Kenyans and others you glorify live under actual disgrace , their economies dominated by Indians, Chinese, and multinationals siphoning billions abroad. Those same communities subject to even worse discriminations in their own land.

Yes, and also, it should be viewed as Western policy, particularly the UK their former colonial masters and the US.

Kenya is a proxy state, it is completely run by the Brits and they have always upheld their policies. They have British bases all over still and their troops are lead by the British.

Kenyans themselves wouldnt be able to come up with any policies against Somalis, they have always been directed by the west.

Anywhere Kenya moves you will see a Brit directing them.

It is the western policy of fighting Muslims. They are powerless on their own. Same with Ethiopia, these are states created and held together by the west, who direct all their policies, particularly towards us Somalis.

Somalis, by contrast, funnel their billions into developing Somali regions, control and run their own economies and self govern their regions.

When you fight for self-determination, self-reliance and independence, you’re never humiliated , you elevate yourself. Somalis are not “gypsies” not even close, we have our own land/country; they’re closer to the Chinese or Jews: despite discrimination, slander, and conspiracy, they’ve built global business and diaspora networks to cement power and uplift their communities.

Your slander does nothing but fuel that. The more people like you rant online, the more Somalis double down on supporting each other. That leaves you powerless behind a screen, while Somalis are busy building sustainable communities.

 

[Jaffar]

You’re the perfect example of my original post. Thanks for proving my point.

answer the question why is it so absurd for an ogaden man to support his man madoobe, why do you want or expect him to support a hawiye president inside an ugandan Tank where not that long ago a freedom fighter named qalbi dhagax was handed over to ethiopia and taken from mogadishu , do u want him to support such an entity

 

[Maintainnnin]

“Cope this, cope that” , that’s all you lot can say. It just shows you’re incels living off doom-posting and internet culture wars. That’s this generation: instead of going out and building something, losers like you sit here or on twitter crying.

Yes, what I said is true. Somalia evolved into a self-driven, locally controlled, innovative private sector and trade driven economy and a decentralized system that allows for regional development and self-governance. How is that failure?

In just 10 years, Somalia has achieved more with less capital, assistance, and resources than many Arab and African states have in their entire existence. We rebuilt our aviation sector, graduated thousands of pilots, reclaimed our airspace, and reestablished our maritime police and navy to combat disturbances at sea.

The south despite experiencing environmental crisis(drought & flood) and AS, it has increased food production through mechanizations, micro irrigation, created crop processing companies in jubba and shabelle and large industrial grain plant that creates various products. It even has very innovative and strong seed companies, that a global seed organizations even praises.

Somalia’s Surprisingly Strong Seed Sector - Seed Systems Group

The country of Somalia, in Africa’s northeastern region known as the Horn of Africa, has faced numerous challenges over the past several decades, including a

seedsystemsgroup.org

View attachment 374680
View attachment 374681

So miss me with that nonsense. If you want to wank off to centralized power where a small elite hoards everything in one capital while the state brutalizes its citizens into poverty and calls it “stability,” that’s on you.



The system I support is one where Somalis across regions actively participate in governing and developing their own communities. A system that ensures a more equal distribution of wealth, power, and resources, and fosters inclusion and integration across clan and regional lines.

You think the U.S. or Germany just walked into functional federalism? No , both went through decades of negotiation, secession, infighting, and even outright wars before arriving at stable systems. The U.S., for example, was once a patchwork of confederations and rival state-building projects, only holding together with heavy financial and military backing , first from France during independence, then Britain later on.

And Somalis are not “disgraced.” On the contrary, they are some of the most defiant, adaptable, innovative, and resilient people alive. Take Ogaden: Somalis there fought relentlessly, and the end result was autonomy, peace, and rapid development. Compare that to Ethiopia , what did TPLF and Amhara gain from decades of brutality against others? Tigray was shattered, millions killed, and Amhara continues to spiral in chaos. Outside of Addis and even within it , Ethiopians live in substandard housing beside a single “showcase” corridor they can’t even afford. That is humiliation.

NFD Somalis, too, fought through military, political, and economic means. The result? They secured influence, ended ID vetting systems, dismantled discriminatory policies, and gained leverage. Why? Because Somalis’ strength forces respect.

Meanwhile, the Kenyans and others you glorify live under actual disgrace , their economies dominated by Indians, Chinese, and multinationals siphoning billions abroad. Those same communities subject to even worse discriminations in their own land.








View attachment 374679

Somalis, by contrast, funnel their billions into developing Somali regions, control and run their own economies and self govern their regions.

When you fight for self-determination, self-reliance and independence, you’re never humiliated , you elevate yourself. Somalis are not “gypsies” not even close, we have our own land/country; they’re closer to the Chinese or Jews: despite discrimination, slander, and conspiracy, they’ve built global business and diaspora networks to cement power and uplift their communities.

Your slander does nothing but fuel that. The more people like you rant online, the more Somalis double down on supporting each other. That leaves you powerless behind a screen, while Somalis are busy building sustainable communities.

Peak AI slop yapping. YOU DON’T HAVE FEDERALISM IN SOMALIA you nacas. What you have is a foreign installed, clan nepotism based government with a bunch of artificial clan fiefdoms attached to it. Jubaland was created and occupied by Kenya so they could try and steal our territorial waters. This is the governance system you have, with thousands of foreign troops from hostile neighbors occupying the country and violating our sovereignty. How is this different from colonialism? You’re like a chatbot without critical thinking.

Always going on about your Muh private sector, how come Muqdisho doesn’t have a sewage treatment plant? How come the country completely lacks rail infrastructure? Why is Somalia’s life expectancy ten years lower than Eritrea and Kenya? We’ve got a foreign-installed government, with an incomplete constitution and institutionalized clanism, set up to be weak and ineffective from the start because our enemies didn’t want a strong Somalia, and knew Somalis were low-IQ enough to quibble amongst each other and resort to the most primitive, stone-age tribalism. To you, the only options are the current system or North Korea-style centralism. Nothing about the current system is organic yet you cheerlead it.

 

[novanova]

@Maintainnnin you’re not going back to Somalia to contribute so why do you care? lol none of these doomer posts make any sense. I feel like you guys spend too much time on weird parts of the internet, start feeling inadequate then you come on here and lash out at other somalis

Get off the internet, continue living ur cushy life in the west and leave somalis out of ur identity crisis

 

[Barkhadle1520]

The lack of centralization and clan fiefdom fragmentation is not what made me lose hope; it was the number of clannish, reer-baadiyo, backward hick Somalis who advocate for the current divisive 4.5 government framework. This jaahil, anti-meritocracy, anti-competence, low-IQ, inbred mass of Somali people who glorify their clan fiefdoms is what made me lose hope.

Our problem is that Somalis are a people with astonishingly low human capital, unable to see how their mentality and politics actively cause their current debased and humiliated standing on the world stage. Somehow, countries like Tanzania and Kenya, made up of multiple ethnicities, can build sustainable centralized states, but a people who share ancestry, language, culture, and religion cannot. Like I said, a greater people placed on the same landmass would have made it one of the most powerful and wealthiest regions on earth, but the land was cursed with Somalis.

Our ancestors werent this bad yk, they built great centralized Kingdoms, influenced the world greatly and went around everywhere trading and learning

Its the nomadic mentality thats fucking us up, some subclans still hold 2 century old grudges over stolen camels, if you start reading books about Somali nomads before Europeans came you'll be fascinated at their savagery and backwardness, even when the Egyptians came to Harar they were shocked of Somali nomads killing each others and boasting about it by putting on feathers

 

[Idilinaa]

Peak AI slop yapping. YOU DON’T HAVE FEDERALISM IN SOMALIA you nacas. What you have is a foreign installed, clan nepotism based government with a bunch of artificial clan fiefdoms attached to it. Jubaland was created and occupied by Kenya so they could try and steal our territorial waters. This is the governance system you have, with thousands of foreign troops from hostile neighbors occupying the country and violating our sovereignty. How is this different from colonialism? You’re like a chatbot without critical thinking.

If what i say is peak AI Slop yapping. You or whatever other burner account you operate from spout peak internet Incel slop and doomer dribble.

Somalia is working towards building an inclusive decentralized political structure, it doesn't matter whether you semantically view it as a legitimate federal system or not. Completely irrelevant. The regional states do what they are intended to do which is to give communities the ability to self govern, directly address local needs and spread development regionally. They will work out frame works and systems that best do that and continue to negotiate space on how to cooperate.

Also again miss me with that Foreign installed dribble . By your logic Korea and Japan are foreign installed government by the United States after their state building was assisted after post-conflict situation and their governments relied on foreign funding/aid, they didn't immediately finance their governments through domestic tax collection. So we should write them off ? Same with Singapore could easily be framed as British installed. They were extremely corrupt in the beginning and they combated/reduced that corruption overtime as well.

This can also be seen with Turkey who for decades received aid to finance their government, which is billions in today's money.

Greek and Turkish Assistance Act of 1947 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The United States provided $400 million in aid to both nations to help them maintain free institution

Currently much of the Ethiopian government and other African governments budgets are just external loans and financing. It actually does not even come from domestic revenue.

What separates Somalia/Ogaden from this? It is that it is rapidly moving away from taking on foreign debt or donors and moving aggressively to expand it's tax base and formalization.

To put this drive for self-reliance in perspective you only need to look at how economists described Ogaden's fiscal performance and the same can be applied to other Somali regions: Puntland and Somaliland for example reached 70/80% fiscal independence, and the FGS reached nearly half in nearly 10 years time.

Economic observers have even compared the Somali Region’s post-2018 trajectory to fast-industrializing nations, noting that it is rewriting the script for post-conflict recovery:

When they said "This is the kind of trajectory you might see in fast-industralizing nations" that actually sums up its trajectory. You only have to look at their starting point to see fast the progress has been.

It will even be larger than that when they roll out these new digital taxation systems and mechanisms regionwide.

Always going on about your Muh private sector, how come Muqdisho doesn’t have a sewage treatment plant? How come the country completely lacks rail infrastructure? Why is Somalia’s life expectancy ten years lower than Eritrea and Kenya? We’ve got a foreign-installed government, with an incomplete constitution and institutionalized clanism, set up to be weak and ineffective from the start because our enemies didn’t want a strong Somalia, and knew Somalis were low-IQ enough to quibble amongst each other and resort to the most primitive, stone-age tribalism. To you, the only options are the current system or North Korea-style centralism. Nothing about the current system is organic yet you cheerlead it.

I go on about the private sector because it actually shows Somalis are intelligent, resourceful, innovative and can get things done . Mogadishu much like most urban households have high pipped water access and septic tank system to handle waste and sewage treatment onsite. It's a cost effective way to address the problem of waste/sewage disposal. It's something even used in Europe and America in many places.

Most areas didn't have basic amenities or services before private companies actually brought it to them in record speed. They didn't wait for large loans and multi-billion dollar external roll outs like the countries you glaze. They got up organized and started providing services and addressing peoples real needs.

Somalia's life expectancy rose by 10 years , it's been rapidly increasing over the years. Since it's 2025 it's most probably in the early 60s now. Eritrea has a life expectancy of 68 whereas Kenya has a life expectancy of 63

It's actually hilarious that you mentioned this thinking that this was some sort of dunk on Somalia because think about what the implications of this is. Somalia was able to increase their life expectancy more rapidly or at the same pace over the years as both Kenya and Eritrea despite witnessing instability/insurgency, environmental disasters like drought , flood and displacements. . It actually shows how high IQ and resourceful Somalis are.

Kenya and Ethiopia have railways that were funded by external debt, while most of their rural communities and other areas don't even have roads or proper housing or even income to utilize it. World observers have slammed them as vanity projects that don't even benefit their citizens and are abandoned railways on a decline:

https://qz.com/africa/1634659/ethiopia-kenya-struggle-with-chinese-debt-over-sgr-railways

You are probably equally as moronic as them, that think building random expensive projects that saddles you with debt is actually real development and progress, when you can address real local needs in a very cheap and accessible ways. It might not be flashy, glamorous but basic common sense should tell you that the priority goes to deliver basic services first.

What stops them from providing pipped water, improved toilet facilities and or build sustainable septic tanks system for households nationwide like Somalis are doing? Why is most of that dominated by international NGOs and not private companies or community/public -private partnerships like in Somalia? Because they are just as low IQ , incapable and utterly moronic as you are. Why don't they fund businesses and create employment opportunities that create income for people to pay for services? They are busy ranting on Social media at people and scapegoating others than actually getting up to build something for themselves. They need billions in IMF roll out to even scratch their back and need to out their country out to foreign powers and foreign investors to keep themselves afloat.

 

[Idilinaa]

Our ancestors werent this bad yk, they built great centralized Kingdoms, influenced the world greatly and went around everywhere trading and learning

Its the nomadic mentality thats fucking us up, some subclans still hold 2 century old grudges over stolen camels, if you start reading books about Somali nomads before Europeans came you'll be fascinated at their savagery and backwardness, even when the Egyptians came to Harar they were shocked of Somali nomads killing each others and boasting about it by putting on feathers

All those historic sultanates including Bar Sa’adin/Awdal empire were decentralized. Each region had its own Emir or regional sultan, and cities were governed by councils made up of various clans, with governors, naibs, qadis, wakils, etc appointed or elected to them.

Have you even read Futuh? It literally describes how regional governors competed with each other, led revolutions, deposed eachother and even deposed sultans to replace them with their brothers or cousins. That competition actually fueled more development, more justice and more efficient governance. When the Portuguese passed through, they were astonished by the prosperity they saw.

Similar efficiency can be seen in the administrations of Harar, Zeyla, and Luuq (as noted by Burton and others), as well as the Majerteen and Hobyo sultanates in the 19th century. What they witnessed wasn’t Somalis endlessly killing each other or clinging to grudges , they saw Somalis trading, collaborating, forming alliances, and resolving disputes through legal means. As for the ‘feather thing,’ that was simply warrior culture, no different from how modern states hand out medals for military bravery.”

In the most towns they saw nomads/pastoralists come in the help maintain the trade and supply goods in exchange system with the urban/merchant class.

It was this decentralized system that allowed Islam to spread far and wide, and for urban settlements to pop up everywhere.

So miss me with the “nomad nonsense.” I get it , some of you see yourselves as distinct minorities or some other ethnicity, and that’s where this resentment and biased stereotyping of Somalis comes from.That's the only conclusion i can come up with to explain why yall are obsessed with this type of framing, its like yall dissociate yourself from other Somalis.

Pastoralism is exactly what created Somali towns and cities. That “mindset” you call a weakness is the same one that gave Somalis large wealth in livestock, which they converted into tradeable goods, surplus food, and mobility where they used them to create transport networks that tied the whole region together.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

All those historic sultanates including Bar Sa’adin/Awdal empire were decentralized. Each region had its own Emir or regional sultan, and cities were governed by councils made up of various clans, with governors, naibs, qadis, wakils, etc appointed or elected to them.

Have you even read Futuh? It literally describes how regional governors competed with each other, led revolutions, deposed eachother and even deposed sultans to replace them with their brothers or cousins. That competition actually fueled more development, more justice and more efficient governance. When the Portuguese passed through, they were astonished by the prosperity they saw.

Similar efficiency can be seen in the administrations of Harar, Zeyla, Luuq(as noted by Burton and others), as well as the Majerteen and Hobyo sultanates.

It was this decentralized system that allowed Islam to spread far and wide, and for urban settlements to pop up everywhere.

So miss me with the “nomad nonsense.” I get it , some of you see yourselves as distinct minorities or some other ethnicity, and that’s where this resentment and biased stereotyping of Somalis comes from.

Pastoralism is exactly what created Somali towns and cities. That “mindset” you call a weakness is the same one that gave Somalis large wealth in livestock, which they converted into tradeable goods, surplus food, and mobility where they used them to create transport networks that tied the whole region together.

Damn thats crazy

 

[Idilinaa]

@Maintainnnin you’re not going back to Somalia to contribute so why do you care? lol none of these doomer posts make any sense. I feel like you guys spend too much time on weird parts of the internet, start feeling inadequate then you come on here and lash out at other somalis

Get off the internet, continue living ur cushy life in the west and leave somalis out of ur identity crisis

The slander Somalis get online or in the media is nothing new. I’ve seen other communities face far worse. Look at the Chinese: they still face xenophobia across Southeast Asian countries and in America historically they were openly attacked and turned into caricatures. The Jews went through even worse throughout history.

But none of them spiraled into doomer nonsense, lashing out at their own people or internalizing racist stereotypes or tropes. They pushed back by uplifting one another. They focused on studying their own society/history in relation to others for constructive developments reasons to progress their own societies not to trash others with it. They didn't hold lame grudges that weighed them down.

They let the haters talk while they quietly built their economic, educational and political power. And they managed this despite what fractures existed within their own societies because they kept their eyes on the bigger picture.

I see Somalis in a similar light. This old piece written by an African observer in 2013 epitomizes what i am saying. Something i encourage @Midas @Zak12 @Galool and @zeila2wajir to read if they haven't already, because this person saw the writings on the wall.

Somalia Doesn’t Have To Fight To Conquer: Somalis Are Already Africa’s Small Kings And Queens

We are told that the 20-year madness and bloodletting in Somalia has been fuelled by clan turf wars, criminality, Islamic Jihad, piracy, and even national resistance against foreign powers (the U...

web.archive.org

This guy @Maintainnnin would have you believe Somalis are Low IQ while they dominate educational institutions in East Africa and Kenya.

''So while Kenyan Somali account for 6 percent of the population, they are 40 percent of the evening degree programme at Kenya's leading programme. This means that in the next generation , Kenyan Somali will be by fat the single most educated group in Kenya.''

He goes on to explain: Luckily Somalia has come a long way since 2013 but he saw what was evident that Somalis are some of the most successful people in East Africa.

 

[SpaceyCadet]

Did the bullying start back in school? why are these children crying? If they made you cry then sit down and tell us. some advice my father told me is to outwit them if your smarter, out punch them if your stronger, otherwise hit them hard from the back.

It's because of the wickedness of it's people.

words you reserve for your enemies but ok.

It went from poor to rich while we were in civil war, how hilarious. Even China when it was at it's poorest, most famine stricken state, was still was able to build nuclear weapons

My man has zero clue what they’re talking. “china” like how could they have gotten to this state

Why is Somalia’s life expectancy ten years lower than Eritrea and Kenya

What’s your claim here. No reputable source shows this. Are you just lying for arguements?

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[Zak12]

What’s your claim here. No reputable source shows this. Are you just lying for arguements?

I'm kind of curious tbh. I know we shouldn't always take data about Somalia at face value but a quick google search shows several sources having Somalia ranking pretty low on the life expectancy stats. For example https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

@Idilinaa have you touched on this topic before? What is your take? Thanks.

 

[Maintainnnin]

After all, Allah(ﷻ) does not change the condition of a people until they change what's within their hearts. Now ask yourself, why has Somalia suffered with civil war, famine, fragmentation, invasion, corruption, incompetence for 40 years?? It's because of the wickedness of it's people.

words you reserve for your enemies but ok.

When you browse the politics section of this forum, do you see idealogical and policy debates? You don't. You instead see can based politics, all the rhetoric here is, "For as long as such and such clan rules, I will actively be hostile to the state building process". Nobody looks at the merits of the leaders, just their clan background. Nobody looks at the qualifications of the civil servants, just their clan background. All support is based purely on whether the person is of their clan or not. There are people here who would make dua for a munafiq purely out of qabilism. Too many people here will unconditionally support the most evil, corrupt, nepotistic leader purely out of qabil faan and feeling like their clan are power brokers or some shit. These are the qualities of a wicked people who do not have Islam in their hearts.

All of this is exacerbated by the 4.5 governance system. A system that is inequitable, anti-competence, and nepotistic to it's core. Instead of people advocating for it's dissolution, they try to work within it's framework. It was a system intentionally imposed on Somalia for the nation to remain weak, divided, insular, and easy to exploit. I could explain this governance system to a middle schooler and they will immediately see it's injustice.

1.From my original post.

There is a critical mass of the Somali population that are zero-sum, anti-unity, clan fiefdom cheering, clan politics indulging, your people vs my people framing losers. Just a bunch of rats who fight in a sewer while the rest of humanity walks above them. They're unfortunately plentiful on this sub-forum, and it's why so many Somalis come on here optimistic but eventually become black-pilled, including me unfortunately.

2. This is my second reply.

The lack of centralization and clan fiefdom fragmentation is not what made me lose hope; it was the number of clannish, reer-baadiyo, backward hick Somalis who advocate for the current divisive 4.5 government framework. This jaahil, anti-meritocracy, anti-competence, low-IQ, inbred mass of Somali people who glorify their clan fiefdoms is what made me lose hope.

3. This is my 6th reply.

We were deliberately given an intentionally weak government with an incomplete constitution, that was nepotistic, and institutionally ineffective, because our enemies knew that Somalis are so low-IQ they would quibble amongst themselves and stoop to the lowest level of caveman tribalism. Just look through the politics forum, no actual intelligent discussion happens here, just clan fiefdom nationalism, and cult of personality worship. No amount of hopium will change this.

4. This is my 7th reply.

None of these technicalities can justify why Somalia is a paper state TODAY, and why the FGS has no real control over Somaliland, Puntland, or Jubaland. They can't even print money and run a central bank properly, can you tell me what the central bank of Somalia's interest rate is right now? There isn't one. Paper country and paper government that can't even defeat a ragtag terrorist militia, that's institutionally set up on clan nepotism, that needs thousands of foreign troops present from hostile countries, and billions in foreign money to stay afloat. Somalis are really the lowest of the low politically, we got a fucking Ugandans protecting the president, Ethiopians and Kenyans xooging us, any country can fly over our airspace and we can do nothing about it. Even when other countries are in civil war they're not that helpless, look at the Houthis of Yemen. We're truly and one of the most humiliated and honorless people.

5. This is my 11th reply.

Peak AI slop yapping. YOU DON’T HAVE FEDERALISM IN SOMALIA you nacas. What you have is a foreign installed, clan nepotism based government with a bunch of artificial clan fiefdoms attached to it. Jubaland was created and occupied by Kenya so they could try and steal our territorial waters. This is the governance system you have, with thousands of foreign troops from hostile neighbors occupying the country and violating our sovereignty. How is this different from colonialism? You’re like a chatbot without critical thinking.

This is the main point I've been making this whole time, it's the crux of my argument, post after post. Nobody here has directly addressed it, just a bunch of ad-hominems and straw man arguments from the likes of Idilinaa and you. This is my only account that was created in 2019, and my username is the same as my twitter @. I started this thread as a form of shock therapy, the rhetoric was meant to be harsh, yall need to sit down and draw the parallels between the current state of Somalis and their mentality and politics. Almost 40 years of instability, eventually we gotta start looking inward for why this is the case. This is probably going to be my last post in this thread.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

When you browse the politics section of this forum, do you see idealogical and policy debates? You don't. You instead see can based politics, all the rhetoric here is, "For as long as such and such clan rules, I will actively be hostile to the state building process"

Thats basically Somali politics for you, you can guess who someone supports by their clan

 

[Idilinaa]

I'm kind of curious tbh. I know we shouldn't always take data about Somalia at face value but a quick google search shows several sources having Somalia ranking pretty low on the life expectancy stats. For example https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

@Idilinaa have you touched on this topic before? What is your take? Thanks.

Very true. We can't always take what we see online at face value because they rarely bring people context and sometimes it can be either misleading or outdated.

I am guessing its mostly because of the Drought/flood displacements between 2022-2023 that kept the number down because life expectancy rose dramatically to 57.1 in 2019 before it fell to 52 in 2022 and then went back up to 57-9 in 2023-2024

The biggest impact on life expectancy is really conflict or environment crisis it went from 50 to 24-26 in 1991. It reached 51 in 2009 and then fell to 30 in 2011 which was the year of the famine.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

It hides how much health services in Somalia has progressed and expanded during the years improve life quality & health and how tirelessly Somalis worked, especially to lower maternal related death and certain diseases.

Conflict has been on a decline and is rare in many areas and the governments and organizations has stepped up to create preventative measures to prevent future problems related to flooding and drought.

So we should see the biggest consistent increase in life expectancy in the coming years.

 

[Idilinaa]

When you browse the politics section of this forum, do you see idealogical and policy debates? You don't. You instead see can based politics, all the rhetoric here is, "For as long as such and such clan rules, I will actively be hostile to the state building process". Nobody looks at the merits of the leaders, just their clan background. Nobody looks at the qualifications of the civil servants, just their clan background. All support is based purely on whether the person is of their clan or not. There are people here who would make dua for a munafiq purely out of qabilism. Too many people here will unconditionally support the most evil, corrupt, nepotistic leader purely out of qabil faan and feeling like their clan are power brokers or some shit. These are the qualities of a wicked people who do not have Islam in their hearts.

All of this is exacerbated by the 4.5 governance system. A system that is inequitable, anti-competence, and nepotistic to it's core. Instead of people advocating for it's dissolution, they try to work within it's framework. It was a system intentionally imposed on Somalia for the nation to remain weak, divided, insular, and easy to exploit. I could explain this governance system to a middle schooler and they will immediately see it's injustice.

1.From my original post.


2. This is my second reply.


3. This is my 6th reply.


4. This is my 7th reply.


5. This is my 11th reply.


This is the main point I've been making this whole time, it's the crux of my argument, post after post. Nobody here has directly addressed it, just a bunch of ad-hominems and straw man arguments from the likes of Idilinaa and you. This is my only account that was created in 2019, and my username is the same as my twitter @. I started this thread as a form of shock therapy, the rhetoric was meant to be harsh, yall need to sit down and draw the parallels between the current state of Somalis and their mentality and politics. Almost 40 years of instability, eventually we gotta start looking inward for why this is the case. This is probably going to be my last post in this thread.

This forum isn’t really reflective of most Somalis, especially the educated class. Outside of here, Somalis run policy think tanks, write op-eds, and engage in serious discussions on power-sharing, legal frameworks, and administration.

For example, take the study conducted by the Somali think tank Heritage Institute for Policy Studies (HIPS) in 2015. I’ve shared it before because it surveyed Somalis from Garowe to Baidoa. It’s still the most representative study we have on Somali political thought, and its findings contradict the claim that Somalis blindly support 4.5 or clan dominance.

The study found that:

• Somalis overwhelmingly rejected the 4.5 system or the promotion of clan identity at the expense of citizenship
• They saw the current federal setup as flawed.
• What they did support was "decentralization" governance that allows local communities to participate directly in decision-making, manage their own resources, and reduce conflict by fostering cooperation.
• They viewed a highly centralized state as undemocratic and oppressive.

https://heritageinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/HIPS-Briefing-Federal-Somalia-ENG-3.pdf

Even people who were “anti-federal” still supported some level of devolution basically a decentralized unitary system.

The conclusion of that study aligns with my own belief:

Once we achieve genuine social reconciliation , where every group, large or small, shares their pain and feels heard , the toxic clan blame-game and hate narratives dominating online/political discourse will fade. Forgiveness and acknowledgement will allow us to rebuild collective civic unity.

That’s why I keep saying Somalia needs something similar to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission established in the Ogaden region:

trc-in-somali-regional-state

srstrc.org

This would mean reparations, justice, and recognition for victims , not just sweeping the past under the rug. Only then will online/political rhetoric about “Majerteen this,” “Darood that,”, "Reer Banadiri/Xamar that" or “Hawiye/Isaaq/Raxanweyn/etc” finally lose its grip. I never take part in that toxic discourse because I understand it’s rooted in unrepaired trauma.

Over time, as economic needs are consistently met (through public welfare and stability), people will rely less on clan/family networks for survival/support. Clan identity will gradually shift to the background while towns, cities, and regions take center stage in how people define themselves.

For now, the focus should be on supporting the incremental improvements being made. The 2026 election is already set to dismantle the 4.5 system both at the federal and local levels. It won’t be perfect, and there’s plenty of criticism, but it’s the first step through the door. That process will naturally open space for deeper reforms later: greater inclusion, stronger oversight, better institutions, and reduced corruption.

That’s how I see it , we’re already moving in the right direction, even if progress feels slow.