Xooshdheere
how do i use this
but muh qabil
WARNING TO SOMALIS TRAVELING IN ETHIOPIA
- Thread starter Nomad2054
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AlphaSomali
Were set
apparently all oromo in degaxbuur got kicked out
Lord Flacko
VIP
smh people still up in arms over the language thingy.
When you have a language spread out between vast lands where there is essentially no standardization there is bound to be big regional differences in pronunciation and dialect. You can even look at the British Isles and the English language spoken there. Some of the dialects are incomprehensible. And this is despite English being heavily standardized. The Norwegian language also has at times incomprehensible dialects because they have a spread out population with a small population density.
The Rahanweyn lived for most of the time on the southern frontier of all Somali land, isolated from the pastoralist heavy deserts. Of course they'll have developed a distinct sound, that's to be expected. Y'all must be some inbred hillbillies if you think regional differences don't exist within the ethnic group that occupies the most land in all of Africa (per ethnicity) despite being one of the smaller ones.
The Rahanweyn are Somali and they speak afSoomaali, which is the umbrella for all Somali dialects (and languages)
All AfSoomaali needs is actual standardization aswell as embracing of regional dialects. If I had to sit through elementary school learning the difference between every goddamn Norwegian dialect then the same should be done of Somali kids back home.
Though before Norwegians in the bigger cities used to heavily look down upon any dialect that wasn't the standard Oslo one. All news anchors were forced to speak in it too. Then they changed and now they're all hippies about dialects to the point that speaking some weird dialect will give you a higher chance of becoming a narrator for online educational content f.ex than if you spoke "the boring standard one"
Also @Grant go play golf.
When you have a language spread out between vast lands where there is essentially no standardization there is bound to be big regional differences in pronunciation and dialect. You can even look at the British Isles and the English language spoken there. Some of the dialects are incomprehensible. And this is despite English being heavily standardized. The Norwegian language also has at times incomprehensible dialects because they have a spread out population with a small population density.
The Norwegian language also has two official different scripts.
The Rahanweyn lived for most of the time on the southern frontier of all Somali land, isolated from the pastoralist heavy deserts. Of course they'll have developed a distinct sound, that's to be expected. Y'all must be some inbred hillbillies if you think regional differences don't exist within the ethnic group that occupies the most land in all of Africa (per ethnicity) despite being one of the smaller ones.
The Rahanweyn are Somali and they speak afSoomaali, which is the umbrella for all Somali dialects (and languages)
All AfSoomaali needs is actual standardization aswell as embracing of regional dialects. If I had to sit through elementary school learning the difference between every goddamn Norwegian dialect then the same should be done of Somali kids back home.
Though before Norwegians in the bigger cities used to heavily look down upon any dialect that wasn't the standard Oslo one. All news anchors were forced to speak in it too. Then they changed and now they're all hippies about dialects to the point that speaking some weird dialect will give you a higher chance of becoming a narrator for online educational content f.ex than if you spoke "the boring standard one"
Also @Grant go play golf.
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Steamdevolopment
VIP
What is honest and patriotic Somali doing the devil's land anyway.
Get out and stay out of the raw meater eaters land.
*I'm going to do part-time work as cannuck character*
Get out and stay out of the raw meater eaters land.
*I'm going to do part-time work as cannuck character*
Lord Flacko
VIP
I swear to God you're more stubborn than a fat fucking whale.
Cushitic = (Stupid) Linguistic group
Cushitic is not a fucking haplogroup denomination. Why do you persist on that being the case? Even the "academic proof" you showed proved you wrong and showed that Cushitic is merely a goddamn linguistic group.
I would rather end the use of "Cushitic" all together, but if you're going to use it then atleast do it right.
smh people still up in arms over the language thingy.
When you have a language spread out between vast lands where there is essentially no standardization there is bound to be big regional differences in pronunciation and dialect. You can even look at the British Isles and the English language spoken there. Some of the dialects are incomprehensible. And this is despite English being heavily standardized. The Norwegian language also has at times incomprehensible dialects because they have a spread out population with a small population density.
The Norwegian language also has two official different scripts.
The Rahanweyn lived for most of the time on the southern frontier of all Somali land, isolated from the pastoralist heavy deserts. Of course they'll have developed a distinct sound, that's to be expected. Y'all must be some inbred hillbillies if you think regional differences don't exist within the ethnic group that occupies the most land in all of Africa (per ethnicity) despite being one of the smaller ones.
The Rahanweyn are Somali and they speak afSoomaali, which is the umbrella for all Somali dialects (and languages)
All AfSoomaali needs is actual standardization aswell as embracing of regional dialects. If I had to sit through elementary school learning the difference between every goddamn Norwegian dialect then the same should be done of Somali kids back home.
Though before Norwegians in the bigger cities used to heavily look down upon any dialect that wasn't the standard Oslo one. All news anchors were forced to speak in it too. Then they changed and now they're all hippies about dialects to the point that speaking some weird dialect will give you a higher chance of becoming a narrator for online educational content f.ex than if you spoke "the boring standard one"
Also @Grant go play golf.
How is it you get to repeat the same gobbledygook, right down to the same words, but I have to go play golf?
The US speaks literally hundreds of languages. Some, like Spanish, have so many speakers in some areas the street signs and driving directions are in dual languages. In some parts of some towns all the signs are actually in Spanish, or Chinese. They have to print the election materials En Español Chinese Japanese Korean Vietnamese and Tagalog. Still, American English is quite standard, to the point that spell-check actually works. In contrast, af Somali has not been standardized even as a lingua franca and is still written just as it is spoken, in regional dialects, some of which are not even mutually intelligible. Yes. All af Somali needs is standardization, but it hasn't happened. And, given the politics, it probably won't.
Maay has an Oromo substrate. Af Helledi is spoken by former hunter/gatherers in the same area. The Reewiin are known to have absorbed many non-Samaale groups. Still, there remains the question: did Maxatiri come from Maay, or the reverse? Since Oromo and Somali were once the same language, and Maxatiri varies from Oromo more than Maay, some linguists think Maxa is the isolate. Given the addition of the "T" lineages in the North, this does seem credible.
In any case, the big differences between Maay and Maxa are phonology and word order. The phonology, I will give you, can change by area; but word order is another matter, much less susceptible to change. The standardization of two mutually unintelligible languages essentially eliminates one of them. I can see where you, as a Samaale supremacist, would want to eliminate Maay; I just can't see it happening.
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Your English language usage is mostly ok, so I am having trouble understanding your reading of it. This is my third attempt to show you that "Cushitic" is an ethnic as well as a linguistic term. Again, note the usage in this article:
http://www.enzimuseum.org/peoples-cultures/cushitic-peoples
"The Cushitic people’s form a small ethnic minority of about 2%, mostly represented by Oromo and Somali speakers.The Southern Cushites were the second earliest inhabitants of Kenya after the indigenous Bushman hunter-gatherer groups..."
"Cushitic" can reference either language or ethnicity, but a "Cushite" is a person, a member of an ethnicity that goes back to Kush. This should be basic English comprehension. "Ethnic minority" does not mean language.
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Lord Flacko
VIP
Samaale supremacist
For a guy that acts like an expert in foreign languages you lack comprehension your own native tounge. I don't want to eliminate af maay or any Somali dialect. I'm for promoting them and educating people in all of them.
All else if your shit is rambling which you need to work on.
You're either a liar, dumb or both.
You have never, ever tried to show Cushitic as being an ethnic denomination. You have tried to show it as being a genetic one, from which you've then concluded that non E1b1b1 Somalis aren't Cushitic.
I've noted the usage in your damn article and it says exactly what I've been saying. Cushitic is a fucking linguistic group. A Cushitic Person is a Cushite and they're both speakers of a Cushitic language.
Absolutely nowhere in that article you've been linking over and over again does the author refer to Cushitic people to be anything else than speakers of a Cushitic language.
Here is every fucking usage of Cushitic/Cushite in your article.
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I'm seriously starting to think your age has gotten to you because no one can be this ignorant and stubborn at the same time. You've posted this article Allah knows how many times now. First it was to show that Cushite actually means E1b1b1 and now it's a new story but with the same shit.
Funny how you don't rave on about at least half of all Oromos not being Cushitic due to your genetic rule....
Cushitic is a linguistic group. End of story. It is not a genetic denomination or a fucking secret name for E1b1b1.
You test my patience like nobody else. Cushitic is a dumb name appropriated from the Bible and Hebrew literature.
If you want to convince me then use an article that supports what you're trying to convey instead of one that clearly shows Cushitic is a linguistic group, and that does not make a distinction between a "Cushitic person" and a "Cushite"
Samaale supremacist
For a guy that acts like an expert in foreign languages you lack comprehension your own native tounge. I don't want to eliminate af maay or any Somali dialect. I'm for promoting them and educating people in all of them.
All else if your shit is rambling which you need to work on.
You're either a liar, dumb or both.
You have never, ever tried to show Cushitic as being an ethnic denomination. You have tried to show it as being a genetic one, from which you've then concluded that non E1b1b1 Somalis aren't Cushitic.
I've noted the usage in your damn article and it says exactly what I've been saying. Cushitic is a fucking linguistic group. A Cushitic Person is a Cushite and they're both speakers of a Cushitic language.
Absolutely nowhere in that article you've been linking over and over again does the author refer to Cushitic people to be anything else than speakers of a Cushitic language.
Here is every fucking usage of Cushitic/Cushite in your article.
I'm seriously starting to think your age has gotten to you because no one can be this ignorant and stubborn at the same time. You've posted this article Allah knows how many times now. First it was to show that Cushite actually means E1b1b1 and now it's a new story but with the same shit.
Funny how you don't rave on about at least half of all Oromos not being Cushitic due to your genetic rule....
Cushitic is a linguistic group. End of story. It is not a genetic denomination or a fucking secret name for E1b1b1.
You test my patience like nobody else. Cushitic is a dumb name appropriated from the Bible and Hebrew literature.
If you want to convince me then use an article that supports what you're trying to convey instead of one that clearly shows Cushitic is a linguistic group, and that does not make a distinction between a "Cushitic person" and a "Cushite"
"Tounge" is spelled tongue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M215_(Y-DNA)E-M215
E1b1b is M215 on this map.
"Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E-M78 and E-Z827 originated respectively at 20,000 years and 24,000 years. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages.
Lazaridis et al. (2016) tested the first ancient DNA samples from the Mesolithic Natufian culture in Israel, possibly the world's oldest sedentary community, and found that the male individuals belonged either to haplogroups CT or E1b1 (including two E1b1b1b2 samples). These are to date the oldest known E1b1b individuals. The same haplogroups show up in Pre-Pottery Neolithic B Jordan, accompanied by new haplogroups (H2 and T). Besides, E1b1b was not found in Neolithic Iran or Anatolia, and only showed up twice among the hundreds of Neolithic European samples that have been tested. This evidence suggests that at the end of the last glaciation 12,000 years ago, E1b1b men were present in the Levant, but not in other parts of the Near East. There is evidence that the Natufians already cultivated cereals like rye before the Neolithic period. Cereal farming may therefore trace its roots (literally) to the E1b1b tribes of the Mesolithic Levant.
Nowadays, the highest genetic diversity of haplogroup E1b1b is observed in Northeast Africa, especially in Ethiopia and Somalia, which also have the monopoly of older and rarer branches like M281, V6 or V92. This suggests that E1b1b may indeed have appeared in East Africa, then expanded north until the Levant. Nevertheless, many lineages now found among the Ethiopians and Somalians appear to have come from the Fertile Crescent during the Neolithic period. This includes some E1b1b subclades like V22 (12,000 years old) and V32 (10,000 years old), but also undeniably Near Eastern lineages like T1a-CTS2214 and J1-L136."
E1b1b (E-M215) arrived in Somalia, along with M-35, along the route up the Nile from Kush in the Sudan, to the southeastern Ethiopian highlands or Lake Turkana, and from there east and north into Somalia. Interestingly, Somalis tested in northern Kenya were 100% E1b1b, while Somalis in Djibouti were only 25%. 66.7% of Somalis in northern Kenya were E-V-32, but only 25% of Djibouti Somalis. So there is a clear spectrum from "E" to "T", even with the recent migrations south of northern Somali clans. As the dude says, T1a-CTS2214 is "undeniably Near Eastern." It is not Cushitic.
Per Wikipedia, these are the references for the word "Cushite":
"Cushite may refer to :
- Cushitic languages
- the Beja language
- Agaw languages
- Highland East Cushitic languages
- Lowland East Cushitic languages
- South Cushitic languages
- Kerma Culture (present-day southern Egypt and northern Sudan).
- the historical Kingdom of Kush
- a biblical tribal name, see Cush (Bible)
- a Hebrew term for "African", see Cushi"
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Lord Flacko
VIP
"Tounge" is spelled tongue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M215_(Y-DNA)E-M215
E1b1b is M215 on this map.
"Haplogroup E1b1b (formerly known as E3b) represents the last major direct migration from Africa into Europe. It is believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago and dispersed to North Africa and the Near East during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods. E-M78 and E-Z827 originated respectively at 20,000 years and 24,000 years. E1b1b lineages are closely linked to the diffusion of Afroasiatic languages.
Lazaridis et al. (2016) tested the first ancient DNA samples from the Mesolithic Natufian culture in Israel, possibly the world's oldest sedentary community, and found that the male individuals belonged either to haplogroups CT or E1b1 (including two E1b1b1b2 samples). These are to date the oldest known E1b1b individuals. The same haplogroups show up in Pre-Pottery Neolithic B Jordan, accompanied by new haplogroups (H2 and T). Besides, E1b1b was not found in Neolithic Iran or Anatolia, and only showed up twice among the hundreds of Neolithic European samples that have been tested. This evidence suggests that at the end of the last glaciation 12,000 years ago, E1b1b men were present in the Levant, but not in other parts of the Near East. There is evidence that the Natufians already cultivated cereals like rye before the Neolithic period. Cereal farming may therefore trace its roots (literally) to the E1b1b tribes of the Mesolithic Levant.
Nowadays, the highest genetic diversity of haplogroup E1b1b is observed in Northeast Africa, especially in Ethiopia and Somalia, which also have the monopoly of older and rarer branches like M281, V6 or V92. This suggests that E1b1b may indeed have appeared in East Africa, then expanded north until the Levant. Nevertheless, many lineages now found among the Ethiopians and Somalians appear to have come from the Fertile Crescent during the Neolithic period. This includes some E1b1b subclades like V22 (12,000 years old) and V32 (10,000 years old), but also undeniably Near Eastern lineages like T1a-CTS2214 and J1-L136."
E1b1b (E-M215) arrived in Somalia, along with M-35, along the route up the Nile from Kush in the Sudan, to the southeastern Ethiopian highlands or Lake Turkana, and from there east and north into Somalia. Interestingly, Somalis tested in northern Kenya were 100% E1b1b, while Somalis in Djibouti were only 25%. 66.7% of Somalis in northern Kenya were E-V-32, but only 25% of Djibouti Somalis. So there is a clear spectrum from "E" to "T", even with the recent migrations south of northern Somali clans. As the dude says, T1a-CTS2214 is "undeniably Near Eastern." It is not Cushitic.
Per Wikipedia, these are the references for the word "Cushite":
"Cushite may refer to :
Kindly note that the last four uses refer either to persons or to kingdoms and cultures. Kush was a recipient of the Natufian agriculture and eventually provided the language and peoples for the Cushitic migrations that populated the Horn. I am just sad for you if you can't make that connection.
- Cushitic languages
- the Beja language
- Agaw languages
- Highland East Cushitic languages
- Lowland East Cushitic languages
- South Cushitic languages
- Kerma Culture (present-day southern Egypt and northern Sudan).
- the historical Kingdom of Kush
- a biblical tribal name, see Cush (Bible)
- a Hebrew term for "African", see Cushi"
Old nigga @Grant back at it again rambling on and on. As for your last few sentences it's clear you've forgotten what you were even arguing about.
Cushitic is a linguistic group. The Kingdom of Kush is irrelevant in this discussion. Cush, the son of Ham, is the source of the name Cushitic and not an arguement in itself. Cushi is another name derived from Cush, son of Ham. When you were arguing about Cushitic you were not talking about either of those things. Arguing about the kingdom of Kush is like arguing that about Aethiopia and Ethiopia being the same. Here its the latter that got its name from the former, and even though a small connection can be argued they are far and way not the same. Sound familiar?
Cushitic is just the fucking name of an
(ethno)linguistic group. Whatever haplogroup the speakers carry doesn't matter. The speakers define what haplogroup their linguistic group includes, not the other way around.
Answer me this.
Are atleast 50% of the Oromos not Cushitic? Are up to 2/3 of Nords not Germanic ?
What about all the E1b1b1 Mediterranean people? Are 1/3 Italic people fakes? What about 40% of Slavs?
Do you think 50-70% of all Turkic people are actually not Turkic too?
Since you seem to believe that the right one and only haplogroup is the only prerequisite to be a part of an ethnolinguistic group, not actually speaking the language and being a part of the ethnicity, you must agree that the percentages of the people belonging to a certain linguistic group I've listed are actually fakes right? Since you believe the same about non-E1b1b1 Somalis.
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I happen to view what you call rambling as the easiest and shortest way to communicate. Sorry you disagree.
Kush, Meroe, Kerma and Napata ( the Cushitic culture of the Sudan), are at the core of all this. If you can't go there, we have nothing in common to communicate about.
Since we also disagree as to what constitutes a linguistic group ( Maay, Af Helledi, af Ashraaf, etc.) , this is no longer a discussion but a shouting match, and I am done.
"Arguement" is spelled argument.
Lord Flacko
VIP
You're purposefully conflicting the Kush Kingdom with the modern day term Cushitic as if it proves Cushitic is E1b1b1 only. Thats laughable and a clear attempt for you to try and muddy the waters of the discussion.
This is the actual definidefinition written by some loony who makes up his own rules and definitions as he goes. So stop this bullshit.
"Since we disagree this is not longer a discussion"? You got the weirdest cop outs ever. Whenever I press you on your claims you either switch the topic or try to end the discussion. I've asked you this question in one form or another over several threads and you've conviently dodged it.
Again, if haplogroup T Somalis are not a part of the ethnolinguistic group of Cushitic due to T not being "native", are atleast 50% of the Oromos not Cushitic? Are up to 2/3 of Nords not Germanic ?
What about all the E1b1b1 Mediterranean people? Are 1/3 Italic people fakes? What about 40% of Slavs?
Do you think 50-70% of all Turkic people are actually not Turkic too?
Turkic, Italic, Germanic and Slavic are all (ethno)linguistic terms on the same line as Cushitic and they're all linked through common old Kingdoms and cultures just like with what you're rambling on about. And the haplogroups I'm talking about are as or more foreign to these populations as T is to Somalis.
Tell me why only Somalis with one haplogroup are allowed to be a part of the ethnolinguistic group that Somalis fall under while all other ethnicites can bypass this rule. How is that?
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