The "Shirazi" Settlement of East Africa

[Factz]

I am not defending Arabs tho but they were merchants, they traded with the Tamils, we have trade cities like Jeddah and Aden, because they sold spices to the Mediterranean like Judea and Egypt.

Yea, also got them Caano Geel people who know nothing (nomadic Arabs).

You didn't get my message brother. I said they were bunch of savage barbaric nomads before Islam. After Islam came, they became advanced ofcourse but Somalis were always advanced since the Puntite era.

 

[UpRightDown]

@James Dahl the Ummyad caliphate had control over Berbera, Zaylac and Mogadishu. They made Bayah or pledge of allegiance to Abdul Malik Bin Marwan. The Caliphate gave Autonomy over the states but demanded they're zakah payment.

 

[UpRightDown]

You didn't get my message brother. I said they were bunch of savage barbaric nomads before Islam. After Islam came, they became advanced ofcourse but Somalis were always advanced since the Puntite era.

I know what you said, but we knew the Arabs played an important role with trading with southern India to the Levant.

 

[Factz]

@James Dahl the Ummyad caliphate had control over Berbera, Zaylac and Mogadishu. They made Bayah or pledge of allegiance to Abdul Malik Bin Marwan. The Caliphate gave Autonomy over the states but demanded they're zakah payment.

That's false brother. No such evidence, we only had a close alliance with them since we embraced Islam during Hijra at the time of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) but we had independent city-states until we started developing sultanates in the 9th century. Somalis were never ruled by foreigners ever, not even European protectorate counts since we weren't under their direct rule. If you read Ibn Khaldun books, he said no foreigners ever had a chance to control the strategic Somali coast and he even said that we Somalis were a powerful and a respected group across the Indian ocean.

 

[James Dahl]

@James Dahl the Ummyad caliphate had control over Berbera, Zaylac and Mogadishu. They made Bayah or pledge of allegiance to Abdul Malik Bin Marwan. The Caliphate gave Autonomy over the states but demanded they're zakah payment.

Yes and this happened around the year 700, but Mogadishu was one of the cities that broke free from the Caliphate around the year 920 when Abbasid central authority collapsed. There was a republic for 350 years, then a man was made Sultan of Mogadishu named Abubakr ibn Fakhruddiin. This may or may not have been the same as the beginning of the "Shirazi" period, it's murky. These "Shirazi" rulers, not all from the same dynasty, ruled from about 1270 and the end of the Mogadishu republic, until the rule of Muzaffar, immediately after which the Yacquub dynasty of Abgaal took over Mogadishu in around 1624.

The period between 1270 and 1624 is a very important period but not very well understood, I have tried to reconstruct the list of rulers in this 354 year period, and there are many coins minted by many kings, but the exact chronology and dynasties and years of rule I do not know. Perhaps there is a dusty book in some Qadi's library somewhere in Shingani that contains the list.

 

[UpRightDown]

That's false brother. No such evidence, we only had a close alliance with them since we embraced Islam during Hijra at the time of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) but we had independent city-states until we started developing sultanates in the 9th century. Somalis were never ruled by foreigners ever, not even European protectorate counts since we weren't under their direct rule. If you read Ibn Khaldun books, he said no foreigners ever had a chance to control the strategic Somali coast and he even said that we Somalis were a powerful and a respected group across the Indian ocean.

We were not ruled but we were a subject for the Khalifa

Yes and this happened around the year 700, but Mogadishu was one of the cities that broke free from the Caliphate around the year 920 when Abbasid central authority collapsed. There was a republic for 350 years, then a man was made Sultan of Mogadishu named Abubakr ibn Fakhruddiin. This may or may not have been the same as the beginning of the "Shirazi" period, it's murky. These "Shirazi" rulers, not all from the same dynasty, ruled from about 1270 and the end of the Mogadishu republic, until the rule of Muzaffar, immediately after which the Yacquub dynasty of Abgaal took over Mogadishu in around 1624.

The period between 1270 and 1624 is a very important period but not very well understood, I have tried to reconstruct the list of rulers in this 354 year period, and there are many coins minted by many kings, but the exact chronology and dynasties and years of rule I do not know. Perhaps there is a dusty book in some Qadi's library somewhere in Shingani that contains the list.

thanks man

 

[Factz]

Yes and this happened around the year 700, but Mogadishu was one of the cities that broke free from the Caliphate around the year 920 when Abbasid central authority collapsed. There was a republic for 350 years, then a man was made Sultan of Mogadishu named Abubakr ibn Fakhruddiin. This may or may not have been the same as the beginning of the "Shirazi" period, it's murky. These "Shirazi" rulers, not all from the same dynasty, ruled from about 1270 and the end of the Mogadishu republic, until the rule of Muzaffar, immediately after which the Yacquub dynasty of Abgaal took over Mogadishu in around 1624.

The period between 1270 and 1624 is a very important period but not very well understood, I have tried to reconstruct the list of rulers in this 354 year period, and there are many coins minted by many kings, but the exact chronology and dynasties and years of rule I do not know. Perhaps there is a dusty book in some Qadi's library somewhere in Shingani that contains the list.

Sir, only North Africa was under Caliphate. You guys are going full metaphysicist right now. If what you said was true then Somalia would've been painted under Caliphate in all Islamic books and it would've been a basic history of our antiquity period but it wasn't. The Somali city-states only traded with the Caliphate and had close ties with them. I've seen the books, stop spreading garbage. I actually thought you was better than this.

@UpRightDown @James Dahl This is Caliphate at their height. They never ever ruled Somali territory in history and it's never been documented.

 

[UpRightDown]

Sir, only North Africa was under Caliphate. You guys are going full metaphysicist right now. If what you said was true then Somalia would've been painted under Caliphate in all Islamic books and it would've been a basic history of our antiquity period but it wasn't. The Somali city-states only traded with the Caliphate and had close ties with them. I've seen the books, stop spreading garbage. I actually thought you was better than this.

@UpRightDown @James Dahl This is Caliphate at their height. They never ever ruled Somali territory in history and it's never been documented.

Let me explain, those were the lands they conquered from the Gaalo. Somaaliweyn was Muslim at the time therefore no need to conquer, since Berbera, Zaylac and Mogadishu muslim states the Khalif is the Ameer Al Mumineen and the Somalis were Mumineen so they made Bayah that Somalis are under his service and he is Khalif over them. They payed they're Zakah to the Caliphate as the Prophet told us to do.


The point your missing is Autonomy in States of the Khalifah. All states in the khalifah had Autonomy.

 

[James Dahl]

That map is wrong, the Caliphate controlled part of Eritrea and Somalia and a little bit of Kenya:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=DP...hu marwan umayyad&pg=PR26#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Factz]

Let me explain, those were the lands they conquered from the Gaalo. Somaaliweyn was Muslim at the time therefore no need to conquer, since Berbera, Zaylac and Mogadishu muslim states the Khalif is the Ameer Al Mumineen and the Somalis were Mumineen so they made Bayah that Somalis are under his service and he is Khalif over them. They payed they're Zakah to the Caliphate as the Prophet told us to do.


The point your missing is Autonomy in States of the Khalifah. All states in the khalifah had Autonomy.

Do you relaly want me to start pulling sources again? If you're saying all Muslims paid Zakah to Caliphate even without being part of Caliphate than we can get somewhere.

I showed you a Caliphate map that had clients and vessel states that were autonomous but Somalis had independent city-states that had nothing to do with Caliphate. They only traded and had close alliance with the Caliphate.

 

[James Dahl]

Mogadishu was actually conquered by the Ummayads, it did not join voluntarily, though there were Muslims there at the time. It was not a Somali city at the time however, but a Himyarite city.

The Reer Faqi of Mogadishu, who were the leading family of Mogadishu in medieval times, are Himyarites.

 

[Factz]

That map is wrong, the Caliphate controlled part of Eritrea and Somalia and a little bit of Kenya:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=DPwOsOcNy5YC&lpg=PR25&dq=700 mogadishu marwan umayyad&pg=PR26#v=onepage&q&f=false

Your link is unavailable. I've studied Caliphate, they never ruled East Africa. Only northern of Africa they ruled was northern Africa. It's never been documented they ruled Somalis, you're bullshitting right now.

The map I shown you for Caliphate was authentic. I've studied Islam and I'll educate you.

• Expansion under Prophet Muhammad, 622–632 which is dark red.

• Expansion during the Rashidun Caliphs, 632–661 which is orange.

• Expansion during the Umayyad Caliphate, 661–750 which is yellow.

Mogadishu was actually conquered by the Ummayads, it did not join voluntarily, though there were Muslims there at the time. It was not a Somali city at the time however, but a Himyarite city.

The Reer Faqi of Mogadishu, who were the leading family of Mogadishu in medieval times, are Himyarites.

Mogadishu has always been a Somali city. It was known as the Sarapion which was the predecessor of Mogadishu which was founded and built by Barbara people who were proto-Somalis. Medieval Mogadishu was capital of Ajuran Empire ruled by the Ajurans and Himyarite had no colonies, let alone ruling the ancient Somali city-states which were independent according to Chinese scripts and I can show them if you want?

I suggest you study the Somali city-states (Barbara region) because clearly you don't know what the hell you talking about right now.

 

[James Dahl]

It the Historical Dictionary of Somalia by Mohamed Haji Mukhtar.

The Chronology section:

700 Caliph Abdul Malik Ibn Marwan of the Ummayads sends an expedition to the East African coast to conquer Mogadishu and secure its kharaj, or annual tribute.

 

[Factz]

It the Historical Dictionary of Somalia by Mohamed Haji Mukhtar.

The Chronology section:

700 Caliph Abdul Malik Ibn Marwan of the Ummayads sends an expedition to the East African coast to conquer Mogadishu and secure its kharaj, or annual tribute.

Sorry, if this was true then we would all know it by now. It's not even documented on basic Mogadishu articles so I need other scholars to back up his claim or else he was an idiot with falsification claims.

I've read other books that Somalis embraced Islam and their city-states were peacefully trading and having good ties with the Caliphate.

I've studied Caliphate expansion, they didn't go beyond southern Egypt, let alone Somalia.

 

[James Dahl]

This isn't your fault, Somali history is not very well documented. Here is a history site where you can read more about this:
http://www.banadiri.org/en/history-of-banadir/

 

[Factz]

This isn't your fault, Somali history is not very well documented. Here is a history site where you can read more about this:
http://www.banadiri.org/en/history-of-banadir/

It's fine sir but I don't take blogs as a serious source. I've learned Caliphate history during my time in madrasa and it's a well-known fact that Caliphate power did not extend to southern Egypt, let alone Somalia.

Somalis back then could've paid tribute but there is no mentions of it. All I read from Somali connection with Caliphate was they had close ties with Caliphate and use to trade often with them.

 

[Sultan]

That would have depended on the period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogadishu

"Tradition and old records assert that southern Somalia, including the Mogadishu area, was inhabited very early by hunter-gatherers of Khoisan descent. Although most of these early inhabitants are believed to have been either overwhelmed, driven away or, in some cases, assimilated by later migrants to the area, physical traces of their occupation survive in certain ethnic minority groups inhabiting modern-day Jubaland and other parts of the south. The latter descendants include relict populations such as the Eile, Aweer, the Wa-Ribi, and especially the Wa-Boni.[8][9] By the time of the arrival of peoples from the Cushitic Rahanweyn (Digil and Mirifle) clan confederacy, who would go on to establish a local aristocracy, other Cushitic groups affiliated with the Oromo (Wardai) and Ajuuraan (Ma'adanle) had already formed settlements of their own in the sub-region.[8][9]"

The Eyle have an archaeological record that goes back 11,000 years. The Aweer, Wa-Ribi and Wa-Boni may go back as far. The Tunni would have been part of the Rahanweyn migrations and come at a later date, but were likely in the area when the Shirazi arrived.

The remnants of the Khoisan can be found in Jubaland.they're now called Booni or simply Boon.These Bushmen and Galla lived in Jubaland and Tanaland before Somali conquered their territories.

The Booni or the Bushmen are also localy known as ree Gamuun (people of the archery) .They don't keep livestock and subjects to Somali people.Their main occupation is hunting and other despised jobs such as blacksmith etc

 

[Sultan]

"The Boni tribe formerly lived in the Gurreh country on the borders of Abyssinia, where their sole occupation was that of hunting. Gradually they spread southward until they reached that part of Jubaland then inhabited by the Gala, who are looally termed the Wurday. With this tribe they made an agreement that they should be allowed to live and hunt in the districts of Afmadn and Deshek Wama, under condition that one tuik of every elephant killed should be handed to the Gala.

When the Somali and the Gala began fighting the Boni were neutral, but when the former proved victorious the Boni retired into the thiclr bush, where for two years they lived on game. Subsequently they made with the Ogaden Somali a similar arrangement to that which they had formerly made with the Gala, and this arrangement is still carried out. They now have settlements in Arnoleh and the hinterland of Port Durn-ford. I n physique they are in no respect like negroes. Oppressed and persecuted by the young Somali, they have become extremely timid and shy of stranger&. If a traveller approaches one of their villages, the whole population takes refuge in the thorn bush, where it is quite impossible to track them. Their weapons are bows with poisoned arrows. This poison they obtain from a scarce tree called Wabaiyu, which is a species of Euphorbia. Of late years this tribe has begun to collect the wild rubber around Arnoleh and to barter it with the Barjun in exchange for cloth. I n hunting they have remarkable skill, and their knowledge of the bush is wonderful. When water fails them in the bush they watch the birds, and when they see the birds sitting on yak trees in any numbers, their expe-rience tells them that water will probably be found in the llollows of some of the trees."

source:
JUBALAND AND ITS INHABITANTS.

By F.ELLIOTT

 

[James Dahl]

The Boni are also known as Waata, though I am pretty sure they speak a Cushitic language and always have

 

[Sultan]

The Boni are also known as Waata, though I am pretty sure they speak a Cushitic language and always have

Do you mean waradei or warra daya?

The Booni should have spoken Cushitic language having lived under the mercy of Galla(Wardei ) and then Somali for centuries.