The Madhab of the Salaf was to fight the unjust rulers

[Celery]

Nigga can we just have peace??

The entire MENA and African Sahel region of the Islamic world has been struggling politically.

You want more wars??

You know how privileged you are to be talking like this.

Go live in Syria for a couple years or khawarijj controlled parts of Somalia.

This is the wrong response to these people. They should be viciously opposed wherever you find them. You shouldn’t beg or hope for peace.

 

[Internet Nomad]

What are the times for religious war? Islam is hanging itself with its own rope. There are no foreigners subjugating the Muslim world. It’s all internal destabilization.

Religion wars in terms of protecting oneself from foreign occupiers.

For example Western interest suddenly starts to sour on Saudi Arabia for whatever reason.

A religious war in this context would be Muslim nations forming a coalition of support.

Westerners impose their beliefs in times of war every political belief/ideology wants to expand

 

[Celery]

Exactly his mindset is counter productive of Pushing Islam to the world.

He doesn’t understand being in a constant state of battle will only keep us poor and weak.

If he wants them Muslims to be strong we need at least a century of building our selves up so we can become world powers.

Sometime that calls for us to bite our lip and not act on situations of injustice just so we can later bring justice when the time is ripe.

We’ve been down this miserable path since the mongols effectively killed Islam in 1258. Its been downhill ever since that golden era.

 

[Internet Nomad]

This is the wrong response to these people. They should be viciously opposed wherever you find them. You shouldn’t beg or hope for peace.

Of course in a ideal Muslim state a cia type organisation would look for these type of people and bring them to justice.

 

[Celery]

Religion wars in terms of protecting oneself from foreign occupiers.

For example Western interest suddenly starts to sour on Saudi Arabia for whatever reason.

A religious war in this context would be Muslim nations forming a coalition of support.

Oh ok.

 

[Internet Nomad]

We’ve been down this miserable path since the mongols effectively killed Islam in 1258. Its been downhill ever since that golden era.

They hadn’t killed Islam but it was a big blow.

Which happens as we were complacent and it bit us in the arse.

The ottomans revived Islamic power but since the fall of the ottomans we are in a dark age.

Inshallah we will get our act together.

 

[Celery]

Of course in a ideal Muslim state a cia type organisation would look for these type of people and bring them to justice.

Do you agree that non-Muslim countries, like, say America, are justified when they send their security agencies to hunt down these types of Muslims calling for violence? I think so

 

[Internet Nomad]

Do you agree that non-Muslim countries, like, say America, are justified when they send their security agencies to hunt down these types of Muslims calling for violence? I think so

Absolutely it’s their countries national security that is at risk with these types of individuals.

I even think Muslims should report them to the authorities if they see clear proof of khawrijj activities.

 

[Celery]

They hadn’t killed Islam but it was a big blow.

Which happens as we were complacent and it bit us in the arse.

The ottomans revived Islamic power but since the fall of the ottomans we are in a dark age.

Inshallah we will get our act together.

We haven’t recovered from the sack of Baghdad. The Ottoman Empire wasn’t what people think. It’s been trying to collapse for hundreds of years and was more interested in pillaging land they ruled.

The sad thing is people don’t understand that the golden era of Islam was focused on discovery and advancing the human race. They literally sought knowledge and had dedicated interpreters for any book they found. They invented algebra ffs

None of the screaming towelheads understand this. They think it was all about stoning adulterers. Not in favour of adulterers

 

[Celery]

Absolutely it’s their countries national security that is at risk with these types of individuals.

I even think Muslims should report them to the authorities if they see clear proof of khawrijj activities.

It’s not just their countries’ national security. It’s the Muslims living there’s security. The freedoms contained in the constitution I would say are arguably compliant with Islam.

 

[Internet Nomad]

We haven’t recovered from the sack of Baghdad. The Ottoman Empire wasn’t what people think. It’s been trying to collapse for hundreds of years and was more interested in pillaging land they ruled.

The sad thing is people don’t understand that the golden era of Islam was focused on discovery and advancing the human race. They literally sought knowledge and had dedicated interpreters for any book they found. They invented algebra ffs

None of the screaming towelheads understand this. They think it was all about stoning adulterers. Not in favour of adulterers

Yeah islams intellectually history is so rich and you compare it today and it seems to be two different religions.

Even when they were in battle it was far more noble that the suicide bombers and terror attacks in western countries that is prevalent today.

Muslims are a shadow of our former selves.

I think the best way to fix this is by exposing our history to the young generation so they understand who we were.

Make them understand that Muslim history didn’t begin after the fall of the ottomans.

One thing that makes me sad is that science is now seen as the endeavour of the Atheist.

When that hasn’t been historically correct.

It was ancient Egyptians, Greek hellenist, Christians and Muslims who pioneered science.

All types of religions pushed science forward.

 

[hanif#]

@Internet Nomad what is wrong with you are you okay in the head?

I'm not falling for this guys tactics who is by the way is clear agent but you should be careful

 

[Internet Nomad]

@Internet Nomad what is wrong with you are you okay in the head?

Are you okay?

You are preaching for Muslims to overthrow their rulers.

How did that work for Libya or Iraq?

How is it working for Syria or Somalia?

If this is what Allah wanted wouldn’t we see this pattern of Muslims overthrowing their rulers end up working?

It fails every time.

If you want to change something work from within the governmental system.

Climb the ladder don’t destroy everything.

 

[World]

Obviously no, I'm just opposing the way you framed your post which implies that rulers of the past had little or no military advantage over their citizens

My point is that due to the technological advancements that have been made over the centuries, wars can no longer be contained between rulers and rebels. Look at the Tigray and what happened to them when they rebelled against Ethiopia. Their entire ethnicity and population were almost wiped out.

Back in the day if you had 5000 men and wanted to fight against a ruler, then the rebellion could have ended in one hand to hand battle. Nobody else was affected. But today, if you rebel against a government then millions of your people can die in collateral damage or famine, and the very fabric of your society can be destroyed. This is far worse than tolerating an unjust ruler.

 

[hanif#]

Are you okay?

You are preaching for Muslims to overthrow their rulers.

How did that work for Libya or Iraq?

How is it working for Syria or Somalia?

If this is what Allah wanted wouldn’t we see this pattern of Muslims overthrowing their rulers end up working?

It fails every time.

If you want to change something work from within the governmental system.

Climb the ladder don’t destroy everything.

No these are the views of some of the Salaf, not mine.

Ghadafi and Bashar are/were murtads so fighting them was an obligation according to the Ijma of the Muslims and in Islam an obligation cannot be abandoned because of hypothetical scenarios which could happen in the future. That's a silly principle.

In Iraq the US which you ironically endorse their intervention and hunting down of Muslim individuals in Muslim lands destroyed their government, like what's wrong with you? how tf can you endorse gaalo targeting and killing Muslims in their land?

Do you agree that non-Muslim countries, like, say America, are justified when they send their security agencies to hunt down these types of Muslims calling for violence? I think so

Absolutely it’s their countries national security that is at risk with these types of individuals.

If this is what Allah wanted wouldn’t we see this pattern of Muslims overthrowing their rulers end up working?

This is like the argument of those murtads who say: Why are Muslims so poor and immigrate to gaal countries if their religion is right.

 

[techsamatar]

Don't Mention me in your Khawariju'l-Qa'diyyah poison you pathetic scoundrel. After witnessing your distasteful comments on the Uthman ibn Affan thread, it's evident where you align yourself. Instead of sitting comfortably on your sofa in the West, paying taxes to non-Muslim rulers and submitting to their laws, go and act upon your beliefs.

My latest thread free's the Salaf from the deception you spread, you Jahil. - https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...gainst-the-ruler-shaykh-ibn-uthaymeen.159204/

 

[techsamatar]

May Allah drown you in your poison and paralyse your fingers for the deviance and seeds of chaos you sow, with your sort notorious for misinterpreting Quranic texts and associating destruction with the salafs.

 

[hanif#]

My point is that due to the technological advancements that have been made over the centuries, wars can no longer be contained between rulers and rebels. Look at the Tigray and what happened to them when they rebelled against Ethiopia. Their entire ethnicity and population were almost wiped out.

Back in the day if you had 5000 men and wanted to fight against a ruler, then the rebellion could have ended in one hand to hand battle. Nobody else was affected. But today, if you rebel against a government then millions of your people can die in collateral damage or famine, and the very fabric of your society can be destroyed. This is far worse than tolerating an unjust ruler.

That's not true. Rulers always specifically targeted the tribe or the people of the leaders of revolts because to them they were potential reinforcements for the rebels.

Back then if you were a rebel and defeated you could lose more than you would today

 

[World]

That's not true. Rulers always specifically targeted the tribe or the people of the leaders of revolts because to them they were potential reinforcements for the rebels.

Back then if you were a rebel and defeated you could lose more than you would today

Target the tribe with what? They have swords, so do you. No technological advantage.

Today they have drones, airplanes, robots, tanks and you can’t even have a handgun because it’s illegal.

Low IQ reply.

 

[hanif#]

Target the tribe with what? They have swords, so do you.

Today they have drones, airplanes and you can’t even have a sword.

They have swords

They have standing army of 100k to 1M troops

You can’t even have a sword lol

15 years ago the Houthis were some small group armed with only kalashnikovs in the mountains, now they have drones and middle range missiles