The Madhab of the Salaf was to fight the unjust rulers

[hanif#]

The Hanafi scholar Abu Bakr al-Jassas said: “His Madhab [i.e., Abu Hanifa] was well-known for fighting oppressors and imams of injustice. Therefore, Al-Awza’i said: We tolerated Abu Hanifa for everything until he came to us with the sword - meaning fighting the oppressors - but we did not tolerate him for that. And among his words were: The obligation to enjoin good and forbid evil is obligatory by word, and if it is not commanded to do so, then by the sword, according to what was narrated from the Prophet. Ibrahim al-Sayegh - who was one of the jurists of the people of Khurasan and who narrated their news and ascetics - asked him about enjoining good and forbidding evil, and he said: It is obligatory, and he narrated to him with a hadith on the authority of Ikrimah on the authority of Ibn Abbas that The Prophet, صلي الله عليه وسلم said, “The best of the martyrs is Hamzah bin Abdul Muttalib and a man who rose up to an unjust imam and enjoined upon him what is right and forbade him from what is evil, so he was killed.”.

Source: Ahkam Al Quran 1/86-87

https://shamela.ws/book/23579/84

 

[hanif#]

Ibn Jarir al-Tabari narrated in his history from the hadith of Musa bin Uqba, the historian, on the authority of Omar - may God be pleased with him - saying: “The people will keep appointing a man among them as their leader. If he is upright, they will follow him, and if he transgressed, they will kill him.

 

[Celery]

Go ahead and enjoin good and forbid evil by the sword. Let me know how it goes if you make it out.

 

[World]

They fought with swords and shields back then.

Now if you rebel against a ruler, they will drone strike and carpet bomb your entire city in retaliation.

 

[Celery]

They fought with swords and shields back then.

Now if you rebel against a ruler, they will drone strike and carpet bomb your entire city.

This is the right response. You’re against this? I mean the drone strike

 

[World]

This is the right response. You’re against this?

huh?

 

[Celery]

huh?

People trying to destabilize Muslim countries should be killed by drone strike, such as Al Kebab. OP is advocating for the opposite

 

[hanif#]

They fought with swords and shields back then.

Now if you rebel against a ruler, they will drone strike and carpet bomb your entire city in retaliation.

The military advantage was always with the rulers. The Salaf were aware of this and the rulers did indeed commit atrocities when neutralising revolts in the past

 

[hanif#]

People trying to destabilize Muslim countries should be killed by drone strike, such as Al Kebab. OP is advocating for the opposite

No. I'm not advocating for anything. The point of the thread was to refute the imbecile @techsamatar who claims kufar rulers should be obeyed in Muslim lands and attributes such deviance to the Salaf

 

[World]

The military advantage was always with the rulers. The Salaf were aware of this and the rulers did indeed commit atrocities when neutralising revolts in the past

Are you trying to argue that modern nation states in the 21st century and kingdoms in the 10th century have the same military advantage over their citizens?

 

[Celery]

The military advantage was always with the rulers. The Salaf were aware of this and the rulers did indeed commit atrocities when neutralising revolts in the past

The military advantage is always with nation states and not terrorists. Always has been that way and will always be that way. Saudi Arabia, the most important Muslim country, is planning to have a mutual defence treaty with the USA and an economic treaty with Israel. This means future jihadi revolts will now be put down by the 101st airborne division. Get ready

 

[World]

The military advantage is always with nation states and not terrorists. Always has been that way and will always be that way. Saudi Arabia, the most important Muslim country, is planning to have a mutual defence treaty with the USA and an economic treaty with Israel. This means future jihadi revolts will now be put down by the 101st airborne division. Get ready

Are you trolling?

You want Muslim countries to have economic treaties with Israel?

 

[Celery]

No. I'm not advocating for anything. The point of the thread was to refute the imbecile @techsamatar who claims kufar rulers should be obeyed in Muslim lands and attributes such deviance to the Salaf

I understand exactly where you’re going with it. The Somali government entered into a treaty with a bunch of non-Muslims that allows unlimited Christians to work and live in Somalia and change its culture.

Clearly you’d consider this a kufar government and the group resisting them are Al shabaab. So you’re advocating for AS, and other people like them. Boko haram is resisting a kufar western backed government as well.

 

[Celery]

Are you trolling?

You want Muslim countries to have economic treaties with Israel?

It’s already happening. It’s not about what I want and I’m just telling you what’s happening.

 

[hanif#]

Are you trying to argue that modern nation states in the 21st century and kingdoms in the 10th century have the same military advantage over their citizens?

Obviously no, I'm just opposing the way you framed your post which implies that rulers of the past had little or no military advantage over their citizens

 

[Internet Nomad]

Nigga can we just have peace??

The entire MENA and African Sahel region of the Islamic world has been struggling politically.

You want more wars??

You know how privileged you are to be talking like this.

Go live in Syria for a couple years or khawarijj controlled parts of Somalia.

 

[Internet Nomad]

There times for religious wars and there times we should be focusing on building ourselves up.

These guys read a couple hadiths of scholarly opinions and just extrapolate it for every time no matter the situation or context.

 

[Celery]

Nigga can we just have peace??

The entire MENA and African Sahel region of the Islamic world has been struggling politically.

You want more wars??

You know how privileged you are to be talking like this.

Go live in Syria for a couple years or khawarijj controlled parts of Somalia.

He is the khawarij though. You don’t understand. This is their mindset. Lonely twenty something incels looking for a cause to fight for. He idolizes the khawarij.

 

[Celery]

There times for religious wars and there times we should be focusing on building ourselves up.

These guys read a couple hadiths of scholarly opinions and just extrapolate it for every time no matter the situation or context.

What are the times for religious war? Islam is hanging itself with its own rope. There are no foreigners subjugating the Muslim world. It’s all internal destabilization.

 

[Internet Nomad]

He is the khawarij though. You don’t understand. This is their mindset. Lonely twenty something incels looking for a cause to fight for. He idolizes the khawarij.

Exactly his mindset is counter productive of Pushing Islam to the world.

He doesn’t understand being in a constant state of battle will only keep us poor and weak.

If he wants them Muslims to be strong we need at least a century of building our selves up so we can become world powers.

Sometime that calls for us to bite our lip and not act on situations of injustice just so we can later bring justice when the time is ripe.