T-M184 Discussion

[Prince Abubu]

@Cuneo @Timo Madow and proud @Alexis

The language stuff seems like conjecture at the moment. I think we will need more deep y DNA tests on other HoA ethnic groups, especially east and south Cushites to be more certain.

The minaean/Lihyanite ancestor seems plausible though. I have been noticing that personal names of Gadabursi and Course folk are very archaic and unique compared to other Somalis. Yesterday, I saw a guy called Hoori Ahmed Hoori and another Samaale Kaahin.

 

[Cuneo]

wow. so this word basically confirms a south semitic origin for my ancestors.

We don’t know for sure.

It’s either derived from Judeo-Christian theology because of conversion, a Semitic base or a mixture of both.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

We don’t know for sure.

It’s either derived from Judeo-Christian theology because of conversion, a Semitic base or a mixture of both.

This plus the haplogroup subclade and the South semetic text in sanaag looks very likely it's admixture.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

@Cuneo @Timo Madow and proud @Alexis

The language stuff seems like conjecture at the moment. I think we will need more deep y DNA tests on other HoA ethnic groups, especially east and south Cushites to be more certain.

The minaean/Lihyanite ancestor seems plausible though. I have been noticing that personal names of Gadabursi and Course folk are very archaic and unique compared to other Somalis. Yesterday, I saw a guy called Hoori Ahmed Hoori and another Samaale Kaahin.

The old Gadabuursi Somaliland President also has a very archaic name.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahir_Riyale_Kahin

 

[Cuneo]

@Cuneo @Timo Madow and proud @Alexis

The language stuff seems like conjecture at the moment. I think we will need more deep y DNA tests on other HoA ethnic groups, especially east and south Cushites to be more certain.

The minaean/Lihyanite ancestor seems plausible though. I have been noticing that personal names of Gadabursi and Course folk are very archaic and unique compared to other Somalis. Yesterday, I saw a guy called Hoori Ahmed Hoori and another Samaale Kaahin.

It could be a coincidence but at the same time it makes sense.

Yes, it’s plausible and in my opinion the best candidate. The Musnad (Old South Arabian) inscriptions found in Somaliland have been associated with Sabeans and Himyarites just because they are the best known kingdoms that used this script but I believe it’s from the Minaeans.

The Minaeans had a habit of writing inscriptions on stelaes, rocks etc noting their presence in foreign territory. Their inscriptions have been found in Al’Ula (Hejaz), Sidon (Lebanon), Upper & Lower Egypt and in Dilos (Greek island in the Aegean) where they also erected an altar for their God (Wadd). The Ancient Greeks thought the Minaeans were descendants of King Minos because of the similarity of the names.

I don’t know about the name thing. Many Somalis from different clan backgrounds have archaic Somali name but I agree that the Issa seem to be over represented. Maybe it’s a social phenomena?

 

[Cuneo]

This plus the haplogroup subclade and the South semetic text in sanaag looks very likely it's admixture.

Indeed, it makes sense.

The Old South Arabian script was not only found in west Sanaag but also in eastern Sahil, northern Togdheer and as far south as Hargeisa district.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Indeed, it makes sense.

The Old South Arabian script was not only found in west Sanaag but also in eastern Sahil, northern Togdheer and as far south as Hargeisa district.

Even Hargeisa district? I might go looking for inscriptions next time i visit SL, my family live inside the district but not the city.

 

[Cuneo]

Even Hargeisa district? I might go looking for inscriptions next time i visit SL, my family live inside the district but not the city.

Two sites according to Sada Mire.

One site was located in south Hargeisa neighborhood (among your clansmen) and that site was demolished because they were making way for new houses. The ministry of archeology (headed by Mire at that time) tried to stop them but it didn’t work. They destroyed stelaes with Old South Arabian writing and what looked like an ancient cemetery.

The other one in Hargeisa district is located on the road between Hargeisa and Arabsiyo.

 

[pablo]

So T carrying Somalis most likely descend from ancient south Arabians?

 

[Arabsiyawi]

@Cuneo @Timo Madow and proud @Alexis

The language stuff seems like conjecture at the moment. I think we will need more deep y DNA tests on other HoA ethnic groups, especially east and south Cushites to be more certain.

The minaean/Lihyanite ancestor seems plausible though. I have been noticing that personal names of Gadabursi and Course folk are very archaic and unique compared to other Somalis. Yesterday, I saw a guy called Hoori Ahmed Hoori and another Samaale Kaahin.

idkkkkk I really really don’t think South Arabian peoples had even the lightest impact on us. Literally the only thing we could have inherited from them is HG T and we’re not even sure about it.
The non-existent diversity of the Somali clade says it all. There were only few T individuals who were partenally closely related

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Two sites according to Sada Mire.

One site was located in south Hargeisa neighborhood (among your clansmen) and that site was demolished because they were making way for new houses. The ministry of archeology (headed by Mire at that time) tried to stop them but it didn’t work. They destroyed stelaes with Old South Arabian writing and what looked like an ancient cemetery.

The other one in Hargeisa district is located on the road between Hargeisa and Arabsiyo.

Wow, my family were probably responsible for destroying the cemetery/artwork if this house construction started in the early-mid 2010's. I'll attempt to look for other inscriptions in South Hargeisa, there's probably a lot more.

 

[Prince Abubu]

idkkkkk I really really don’t think South Arabian peoples had even the lightest impact on us. Literally the only thing we could have inherited from them is HG T and we’re not even sure about it.
The non-existent diversity of the Somali clade says it all. There were only few T individuals who were partenally closely related

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[Arabsiyawi]

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That is very unlikely, I just feel like y'all are reaching a bit now.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

That is very unlikely, I just feel like y'all are reaching a bit now.

The South Arabian inscriptions in Somaliland practically confirmed it. Next we have to test other Cushites t0 100% verify the South Arabian origin hypothesis. It looks pretty damning right now.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

The South Arabian inscriptions in Somaliland practically confirmed it. Next we have to test other Cushites t0 100% verify the South Arabian origin hypothesis. It looks pretty damning right now.

Don't get me wrong. I do believe our T is Middle Eastern. And I know there are true South Arabian inscriptions all over North Western Somalia, where T reaches very very high percentages.
But I also don't think we can connect the dots with all these little things you presented as evidences. (names, words etc)

 

[Prince Abubu]

That is very unlikely, I just feel like y'all are reaching a bit now.

You got me wrong, I'm saying if all it takes for the South Arabian hypothesis to be disproved is a non-Somali TY44591 carrier, then it's a weak hypothesis. I'm asking you if you feel the same way.

Personally, I think the subclade is Arabian coast/Red Sea or Mediterranean in origin. I'm unconvinced of the South Arabian connection, just yet.

 

[Prince Abubu]

Two sites according to Sada Mire.

One site was located in south Hargeisa neighborhood (among your clansmen) and that site was demolished because they were making way for new houses. The ministry of archeology (headed by Mire at that time) tried to stop them but it didn’t work. They destroyed stelaes with Old South Arabian writing and what looked like an ancient cemetery.

The other one in Hargeisa district is located on the road between Hargeisa and Arabsiyo.

That's literally considered a war crime by the UN. Which administration was this, Silaanyo's?

 

[Ayubi]

That's literally considered a war crime by the UN. Which administration was this, Silaanyo's?

You seem to know a lot about genetics. Can you tell me the difference between E!B!B and T-Something?

 

[Prince Abubu]

You seem to know a lot about genetics. Can you tell me the difference between E!B!B and T-Something?

Better ask @Apollo and @EDsomali as they're more knowledgeable than me. But the gist of it is that E1b1b and T-M184 are what is called y-chromosome DNA haplogroups, passed down from father to son, all the way to earliest male human ancestor. There are many different y-dna haplogroups and it's only passed from father to son - females don't have it. Because of this, it's a really useful tool in determining ancient ancestry.

Here; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup

 

[Cuneo]

That's literally considered a war crime by the UN. Which administration was this, Silaanyo's?

It was during the last years of the former administration. The owners of the land didn’t want compensation so there was nothing the ministry and Sada Mire could do about it.

People all over the Somali peninsula loot and destroy archeological sites.