Somalis are a smart ethnic group, why is the country not united?

[Hair Guru]

Did they come as refugees though? They are self selected migrants from the middle-upper classes in their countries of origin. For instance, imagine a massive war in India happens against the Dalits (bottom of the caste hierarchy) and they're forced to come to the west, bringing their....interesting ways with them (eg. beating people to death over a cow, throwing poo at each other, worshipping anything and everything ), would they be seen as "successful"? Instead of the self selected tech nerds we see everywhere instead? Have some perspective here

I would like to address this myth.


The myth Somalis are like this because they came as refugees.

Firstly, Somali kenyans in the West also behave like this. They did not come from refugees. You see the dependencies on welfare as well as the issue of some somali boys getting into crime and gangs.

Secondly, also my favourite example to use, is somali Djiboutians. They also have the same issues in the west as somalis from Somalia.

Thirdly, a lot of other people from third world countries in Scandinavia are way less dependent on welfare and assistance as somalis.

Also, perhaps being a refugee may have made things more complex, I calculate I made things difficult by 10% and the final 90% is due to the culture.

Finally, this is not to paint Somali refugees as struggling entirely, A LOT of somalis are doing well , however some are failing due to culture. This will change as Somali culture becomes better.

 

[Hair Guru]

Just live your life walaal and contribute to where you reside. Make a name for yourself , I'm guessing since you reside in the West that you have so much potentials and opportunities for you to blossom and do good for yourself and your community , start from there.
That is just my opinion , you know actually we do love the concept of a "Golden Somalia" to revive that era, to be realistic I envisioned that Ideal for years.
Unfortunately we have to look at the bright side we won't eradicate the intertwined wahabbi mentality embedded in the minds of absentee civilisation , inequality , 4.5 clan segregation system , poverty , lawlessness , unreported crimes and high illiteracy rates so easily.

Let go of Somalia , as much as I hate to admit , despite grasping with the facts , it's a lost hope to ever believe that change would come knocking on our doorstep.
The problem isn't the exterior but rather some entities within our country that thrive on war and terror , how can we easily defeat them when warlords are elected as state leaders , reckless mass murdering criminals recruited as the national army.

It's going downhill as we are speaking.

There's no point of repatriating nor changing the minds of people if they think this the way of life.

Sadly to say many are out of touch with reality and living in their own bubbles of delusions.

Look I am not pessimistic or anything related , I admire your courage , the will and the dedication to uplift our people but as I said earlier some people would rather turn a blind eye to the matter , just look at your perfect thread, your message is falling on deaf ears , and we can see certain individuals attempting to derail .

Keep on the fight , I see a strong willed person.
As for me, The Somalia I once knew forever changed , I cannot look as the same anymore
to witness the horror unfolded in my own hometown and surviving with my life , is something that pains me to this very day , the fighting and instabilities displaced t thousands of Somalis we survived a dangerous journey living in a country where our days could be numbered.

It doesn't bring me any closures to see the situation of Somalis and their homeland deteriorating.
It looks like I may die here than being buried where my ancestors lived for generation and that is common among the Somali youths of South Africa.

Yes I agree. Btw are you a male and are you raised in South Africa and Somalia??

 

[Hardrock]

We need old school Somali Culture back badly not some Wahabi Jihadist Terrorist cult taking over our beautiful culture, traditions and norms. If Wahabis persist in holding us back we gonna remain failed state forever. LETS STAND UP AND SAY NO WAHABBISM.

 

[J-Rasta]

Yes I agree. Btw are you a male and are you raised in South Africa and Somalia??

What makes you think I am not , jk
Yes I am male lol.

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[Basra]

How long do you think it will take until the youth forget about clans and are more focused on poverty reduction, improving their cities (not their clan cities, but the cities they are raised in or live in), free eductation, free healthcare etc.

I'm obviously raised in the west and I can't possibly imagine thinking about a stupid clan when my roads are disgusting, poverty everywhere, illiteracy rates growing, more women wearing niqabs and CHILDREN wearing jilbab, less hijabs, and men getting skinnier and more unhealthy looking.

Unfortunately its not happening. There has to be an education revolution in Somalia. Society has to have literacy of 100% for this to happen. But still even after achieving that, still Somalia is an African country- it will be like what Kenya is now. Corruption and Africans is necessary needed twins.

 

[repo]

How long do you think it will take until the youth forget about clans and are more focused on poverty reduction, improving their cities (not their clan cities, but the cities they are raised in or live in), free eductation, free healthcare etc.

I'm obviously raised in the west and I can't possibly imagine thinking about a stupid clan when my roads are disgusting, poverty everywhere, illiteracy rates growing, more women wearing niqabs and CHILDREN wearing jilbab, less hijabs, and men getting skinnier and more unhealthy looking.

Somalis failed to create a social hierarchy due to disruption of early government. The people at the top should have stomped the heads of the people at the bottom but instead we were led on a path to a quasi egalitarian anarchist society or something to that effect. The people at the bottom dragged down those at the top and we never managed to recover. Take it how you will.

 

[J-Rasta]

Yes I agree. Btw are you a male and are you raised in South Africa and Somalia??

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[reer]

It really must suck being you, you're always so miserable and bitter

Also, they've? What are you then? Sheegato?

stop crying. somalis in general are like animals. and have low intellect. we should be annexed by a foreign muslim country. because we are too xoolo to rule ourselves. calaacal all you want from western country. lmao.

 

[Mantiq_Al-gharb]

No it is not.

Every society changes over the years. Somalis in the 20th-21st century are not the same as Somalis in the 14th century who are not the same as Somalis in the 10th century. Somalis change literally every couple of centuries.

Thirdly, if you look at Somalis in the late 1800s or early 1900s, or the way foreigners (not only cadaan people, other groups as well), describe Somali culture and societies, there was no such thing as little girls wearing jilbab or al shab**** or stoning people like you see in Southern Somalia.

Somali society has changed over the last several centuries, but the underlying concept of clan-based territories characterized by competition and conflict has always remained the same. Please name me one time there has ever been a nationalist movement prior to European invasion.

Secondly, can you give me an example of how this form of secularism is foreign to somali or somali history the way I just described it? I don't think what I said was exactly secular like the west or foreign in Somali history. I'm not advocating for women running around without tops or any other things the West likes for their part of the world. I literally said don't force hijab. Please show me, whether this was during Ajuraan empire or Adal empire or other historical somali periods, where we had the society (which is borderline very similar to Saudi history and customs).

Somalia has traditionally been Muslim; In Islam it is required to wear the hijab. Disregarding this is an implementation of secular policy because it requires an abandonment of sharia for another form of government. So yes, by that definition the lack of headcoverings during the 70/80's is foreign to Somali society.

The only difference between hijab today and pre-colonialism is style - pre-colonialist Somalis wore traditional clothing such as gabsaar and dirac whereas today they imitate Arabs.

Fourthly, yes some forms of secular policies are a form of colonialism, however, if you link every little change or suggestion in Somalia, whether this is new forms of policies we want or other things on colonialism, it sounds very desperate and borderline cadaan obsessive. It's embarrassing to mention the west or blame everything on them when colonialism ended a long time ago.

Colonialism quite literally transformed Somali society and showcased to them an entirely new paradigm albeit socio-political, in regard to religion etc. You're out of your depth on to just how much of an impact European influence had.

 

[Hair Guru]

Somali society has changed over the last several centuries, but the underlying concept of clan-based territories characterized by competition and conflict has always remained the same. Please name me one time there has ever been a nationalist movement prior to European invasion.



Somalia has traditionally been Muslim; In Islam it is required to wear the hijab. Disregarding this is an implementation of secular policy because it requires an abandonment of sharia for another form of government. So yes, by that definition the lack of headcoverings during the 70/80's is foreign to Somali society.

The only difference between hijab today and pre-colonialism is style - pre-colonialist Somalis wore traditional clothing such as gabsaar and dirac whereas today they imitate Arabs.



Colonialism quite literally transformed Somali society and showcased to them an entirely new paradigm albeit socially, politically, religiously etc. You're out of your depth on to just how much of an impact European influence had.

I know the history of European colonialism and its impact on African states. There has never been a nationalist movement before Eurpean invasion because Somalis were not one people under one flag. We had city states mostly and we were divided into so many different communities, however we mostly interacted with each other.

Secondly, yes Somalia has always been muslim, however it is a fact Somalis were not dressing with hijab always. It's pretty obvious, if you look at somalis when the British first came, Somali women were not covering their arms and MANY were wearing hijab however not as much. You should read books on Somali people by the British before invasion, many were not wearing hijab and they were aware of the womens hair types. The fact the Somali men were not outraged by what would be called promiscuous photos of Somali women back then shows that it was normal in society.

Also have a look at this book I have attached an image below. (Note: no somali historian has disputed the way this British traveller described somali women's dress style.). This would have been in the late 1800s, they book is called On the Origin of the Somali Race. Notice how the married women would wear the scarfs around their head (sort of like the way they do in weddings today with neck showing). They weren't wearing real hijab like Islam says.

Lastly, colonialism did not transform Somali society. Somalis have always been known by our neighbouring communities (i.e. oromos, habesha, Yemenis etc) to be a very aggressive and proud people. We have been fighting each other for a very very long time. To blame everything on a white dude is very pathetic and makes it look like Somalis are very stupid people who can be tricked by a superiors "cadaan dude". Totally false. I am not out of my depth at all. Colonialism does not exist today. If a leader in Somalia accepts bribes by rich countries, it is because they are corrupt. Not because of colonialism. If you want to look at colonialism today, look at African countries that still speak in their colonisers language and think they are still inferior to them which is false. Somalis do not have this problem.

The only problem we may have are militarily and economically powerful countries trying to ruin the political climate of Somalia, as powerful countries generally due to weaker countries. This is not colonialism but how the world has run since forever.

I really also hope you are NOT a male. I am a woman and it would be really sad to see another man say his country is in ruins because of other men "colonising" them. Very demasculating.

 

[Bundasliga]

I would like to address this myth.


The myth Somalis are like this because they came as refugees.

Firstly, Somali kenyans in the West also behave like this. They did not come from refugees. You see the dependencies on welfare as well as the issue of some somali boys getting into crime and gangs.

Secondly, also my favourite example to use, is somali Djiboutians. They also have the same issues in the west as somalis from Somalia.

Thirdly, a lot of other people from third world countries in Scandinavia are way less dependent on welfare and assistance as somalis.

Also, perhaps being a refugee may have made things more complex, I calculate I made things difficult by 10% and the final 90% is due to the culture.

Finally, this is not to paint Somali refugees as struggling entirely, A LOT of somalis are doing well , however some are failing due to culture. This will change as Somali culture becomes better.

Do you have numbers/statistics?
You can't compare Kenyan or Djibouti Somalis to Somalis at all .
Kenyan Somalis are pretty successful & like south Africans Somalis are known to be good business people even Somalis from Uganda or Tanzania are pretty successful compared to the natives .

Now to migrants from my experience the Djibouti Somalis are like the other immigrants ,working class people .
Many Kenyan Somalis from my experience came also as refugees if we look at the refugee camp in Kenya it makes sense its one of the biggest in the world .
I don't have numbers or statistics it's all speculations

 

[Lebron James]

Hella self haters in this thread

 

[Thugnificent]

What makes you think I am not , jk
Yes I am male lol.

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What are your future plans sxb, make it in South Africa, move back home or move to another country?

 

[Rivaldo]

Any proof that somalis are a smart ethnic group?

 

[Juliet]

Hella self haters in this thread

there’s lots of undercover ajnabis here, remember that

 

[Mantiq_Al-gharb]

Lastly, colonialism did not transform Somali society.

Somalia's transformation as a result of colonialism is quite obvious. In the late 20th century It lead to the advancement of a new cultural wave in which things that were primarily only practiced in European countries such as bars and electronic music became extremely popular. It lead to Siad Barre's political regime that implemented secular policies such as a modern day nation state with socialist backing, a removal of any form of Somalia's prior social fabric by debilitating the effects of clannism, (expunging matrimonial significance, renaming clan elders as "peace-seekers", etc.) all the while utilizing a European writing script massively thrust upon the populace.

Somalis have always been known by our neighbouring communities (i.e. oromos, habesha, Yemenis etc) to be a very aggressive and proud people.

Anecdotal

We have been fighting each other for a very very long time. To blame everything on a white dude is very pathetic and makes it look like Somalis are very stupid people who can be tricked by a superiors "cadaan dude". Totally false. I am not out of my depth at all. Colonialism does not exist today. If a leader in Somalia accepts bribes by rich countries, it is because they are corrupt. Not because of colonialism. If you want to look at colonialism today, look at African countries that still speak in their colonisers language and think they are still inferior to them which is false. Somalis do not have this problem.

Literal strawman, I only mentioned colonialism because that's where it seems like Somalia's golden age was to you with their lax religious policies.

I really also hope you are NOT a male. I am a woman and it would be really sad to see another man say his country is in ruins because of other men "colonising" them. Very demasculating.

?????

 

[Shaafici Mujaahid]

I hate the tent hijab style that is imported from Egypt, the full jilbaab looks better and is more convenient.

If Somalia ever becomes peaceful, they need to create a national islamic dress that reflects our unique cultural background instead of walking around looking like a pack of skittles.

Egyptian Hijab is way better than that abaayo . That’s even worse than Suadi Hijab it’s more like Yemen

 

[Hair Guru]

Somalia's transformation as a result of colonialism is quite obvious. In the late 20th century It lead to the advancement of a new cultural wave in which things that were primarily only practiced in European countries such as bars and electronic music became extremely popular. It lead to Siad Barre's political regime that implemented secular policies such as a modern day nation state with socialist backing, a removal of any form of Somalia's prior social fabric by debilitating the effects of clannism, (expunging matrimonial significance, renaming clan elders as "peace-seekers", etc.) all the while utilizing a European writing script massively thrust upon the populace.


Anecdotal

Literal strawman, I only mentioned colonialism because that's where it seems like Somalia's golden age was to you with their lax religious policies.


?????

Somalia don’t have a writing script so what other script would we use?? Arabic?? Somalis can already read Arabic and write it (most can’t understand), maybe that would’ve been a good alternative except it has no useful purpose in this globalised world where Arabic speaking countries are the least powerful and only surviving via oil. I always thought the Habesha scripts should have been used since we are similar people, just like how other cadaans used Latin.

in regards to clubs etc, that’s what happens in a modern world. Have a look at major cities in the west, you have loads of foreign influenced cuisines and cultures (I.e Indian food, kebabs, African American hip hop culture). Having clubs in Somalia is not an example of colonisation but globalisation. Countries such as Japan who have never been colonised have had the same thing (in fact, Japan has behaved like a colonisER in its history). Likewise, European countries who have never been colonised have adopted many things from other people cultures (from food to music).

I have a lot of really good points, just re-consider my points. Even if you look at Somalis as BEFORE we got colonised, a lot of us betrayed each other for resources/weapons/lacag. We have never been united and have never been passive. It’s not colonisation but our culture. Anecdotal things are all Somalis can depend on because we don’t have a language script. Furthermore, they are very strong anecdotal evidence because they do not conflict each other, regardless of who the source was. Most importantly, most anecdotal evidence of Somalis have not been disputed by Somali historians.

Also, we shouldn’t be so obsessed with our previous traditional way of lookomg at clans. So what about how clan leaders were called peacekeepers? Who cares? Give me one country who still has clans in the country. I mean, I don’t mind having a clan-based country however as long as we are doing well with it.

You do realise literally the entire world has had clans, but guess what, when they realised the world was developing more without it, they dropped it. Countries all over Asia and Europe were patriarchal clan based societies at one point. Leaving it behind is not colonisation, especially because clan culture in Somalia is very marginalising and racist. Have a look at Raxaweyn or Tumaal and other less powerful clans experience in Somali society.

 

[Lebron James]

there’s lots of undercover ajnabis here, remember that

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[Hair Guru]

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Omg, please it’s constructive criticism. Ignoring the elephant in the room will not help. I’m a very proud Somali btw.