So, I had more suitors when I was struggling with depression and broke.

[Angelina]

also just to elaborate... ok maybe someone says

"Omar del Sur.... what you have mentioned isn't by nature and how Allah designed men and women.... it is all a social construct".....

in pretty much every society in the world throughout history- women tend to be.... what's that word.... I think "hypergamous".... it's a new word, at least to me and at least as far as being a mainstream word.... but what I mean is... women tend to go for more "successful" men... if we look at any ancient civilization or modern civilization.... in whatever part of the world... what I talked about will tend to be the case... women will tend to prefer a more "successful" man, men will tend to prefer less "successful" woman..... either this is something innate in men and women or every civilization in history in every period basically are all in on a giant conspiracy.... even I am not that big a conspiracy theorist....

EDIT: in fact, even if you read classical fiqh manuals that talk about marriage compatibility.... even classical fiqh manuals talk about this... what I mean is, even classical fiqh manuals will discourage marriage between a lower-status man with a higher-status woman... what I'm talking about is as universal as the sky being blue... and so naturally if it is not advised for a lower-status man to be with a higher-status woman... then naturally the field widens for a man as he rises in status and the field narrows for the woman as she rises in social status... this is as natural as a woman liking a tall, muscular or wealthy man.... if you get mad about this, this is like getting mad that 1+1=2... there is no point in fighting 1+1=2, we just have to accept it and go from there

If we are being historically accurate, most marriages were usually of equals. Men too were discouraged from marrying women from very poor families and low lineages. I’m sorry but the son of a king for instance isn’t marrying an average woman but that of a princess of the daughter of the noble man. Marriages throughout history were in fact arranged and based on social compatibility.

Fiqh books talks about not marrying a high status woman to a low status man as in the medieval world, women were wholly dependent on men financially, a girl raised in a palace would not be able to live in a tiny house. She’s become accustomed to a certain lifestyle.

I’m not denying the existence of hypergamy, you’re right it’s nature, but it’s worrying when even a woman’s intelligence is offputting or when you want to marry a woman because of her low mental health.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Don’t think it’s wise to say that Allah created men and women like this since we know that the Prophet s.a.w married a woman who was richer than him and also, Khadijah was sought by the men of Quraish due to her riches and and tribal lineage. Also, historically men preferred women from wealthy families and well known lineages. We all know the famous Hadith of the Prophet s.a.w in which he said men marry for 4 reasons. Wealth and lineage is one of them. Does that mean that the Prophet s.a.w doesn’t know the nature of man? Of course not. It shows that culture and time plays a role.

what I said is the truth. exceptions don't disprove general tendencies.

as for the hadith- sure, I would like to marry a millionaire woman.

but that is a different thing.

the general norm is that the man makes more woman than the woman. yes, it could be the case where you as a guy get very fortunate and end up marrying a rich woman and instantly become rich. but I don't think there's ever been a society where the norm is that the woman makes more money than her husband.

 

[Angelina]

what I said is the truth. exceptions don't disprove general tendencies.

as for the hadith- sure, I would like to marry a millionaire woman.

Nope the Prophet said, men marry for 4 reasons which shows he was talking about the general nature of man. It was common in his society for a woman from a wealthy family and high lineage to be sought after. Obviously, due to hypergamy women from those backgrounds will marry their social equal or higher. That I don’t deny.

But we are debating about it being the nature of a man to not like a woman who is successful. Clearly the men of old like the Quraish didn’t think like that and the idea of it being the nature of a man to dislike a woman for having any material advantages goes against the Hadith.

The point about the millionaire wife. Well, that’s the thing you’re not put off by it though, does that mean that you’re abnormal for a man?

but that is a different thing.

the general norm is that the man makes more woman than the woman. yes, it could be the case where you as a guy get very fortunate and end up marrying a rich woman and instantly become rich. but I don't think there's ever been a society where the norm is that the woman makes more money than her husband.

No, it isn’t norm, you’re right, but we are talking about men being put off by a woman having any sort of material advantages like intelligence, wealth and maybe even lineage. The OP didn’t mention anything about being rich. Im sure she’s doing well, comfortable but still average and her mental health has improved, yet some men need her to be in a weak state to still feel like a man which is why i think it’s strange.

 

[Omar del Sur]

If we are being historically accurate, most marriages were usually of equals. Men too were discouraged from marrying women from very poor families and low lineages. I’m sorry but the son of a king for instance isn’t marrying an average woman but that of a princess of the daughter of the noble man. Marriages throughout history were in fact arranged and based on social compatibility.

I don't know what teenage girls dream about but.... I can't imagine young women are dreaming about "wow, I'd really like some guy who is my exact equal in height and income".... I think the norm in every society ever is that the man makes more money. no, I don't most marriages in any society ever were marriages where the two were exact equal in social status. I think in every society ever, in the majority of cases the man made more money and was higher in social status.

and even if we're talking about elites who didn't want to marry some random village girl... they could go for a woman who was somewhat lower in status... but a woman would tend to seek to marry up... it could be a woman marries her exact social equal but the overall tendency is the man being higher in status as a general society-wide tendency

Fiqh books talks about not marrying a high status woman to a low status man as in the medieval world, women were wholly dependent on men financially, a girl raised in a palace would not be able to live in a tiny house. She’s become accustomed to a certain lifestyle.

look why should we lie and pretend things aren't the way they are? if I'm a subsistence farmer, it's probably not the best idea for me to try to get married to a female lawyer. let's be honest. this is regardless of whether we live in 2023 or 1523.

I’m not denying the existence of hypergamy, you’re right it’s nature, but it’s worrying when even a woman’s intelligence is offputting or when you want to marry a woman because of her low mental health.

men tend to go for women who are less "successful" just as women do the opposite. this just is what it is, I'm just reporting the news, I didn't make it.

it's very natural that a man would not go for a woman who is more intelligent than him. I think I would die alone before I married a woman who was the female equivalent of Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah. How am I supposed to be the leader if the woman is way superior to me intellectually? She should marry a guy who is suitable in that department.

As for marrying a woman with mental health issues.... well... I think it would be kind of weird if you specifically went only for women who have those kinds of issues. but a lot of women deal with things like anxiety and that sort of thing. but as weird as it may seem, a guy going for a woman who has those sort of issues is consistent with the inherent male tendency of going for a woman who is less "successful".

also, I want to mention something. One time I talked to a guy about a deal and I gave him a contract to sign on behalf of the company I was with. his wife had to give involved because it turned out he was illiterate. now... if you are illiterate and your wife was for example... super highly educated.... how would that work? how are you going to be the authority if that's the case? I know Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was illiterate but I'm just talking in general.

 

[j&jenterprises]

Once again proving that female empowerment is the bane of, not just marriages & families, but across every aspect of society. The more you empower females the worse a society gets.

But the difficulty is that if a society wants to improve its economy (industrialisation), it must liberalise. To liberalise means to empower women in education to have a greater workforce and human capital.
Either a society chooses a humble somewhat indigent living standards (as seen across most of humanity) or to adjust to modernity and face the serious side-effects (record levels of depression levels, atomisation, marriage is rapidly decreasing - all backed by data).

 

[Omar del Sur]

Nope the Prophet said, men marry for 4 reasons which shows he was talking about the general nature of man. It was common in his society for a woman from a wealthy family and high lineage to be sought after

I am not convinced of your sharh of this hadith. it is the general nature of men to want a woman who makes more money?????? yes, it happens at times but the hadith doesn't say anything it being the general nature of men.

But we are debating about it being the nature of a man to not like a woman who is successful.

no, I didn't say a man actively dislikes a woman who is more "successful". a man tends to go for a woman who is less "successful". if I'm a subsistence farmer I want a woman who is lower on the social ladder. like I said, as the subsistence farmer, I don't want to go for a female lawyer. this has nothing to do with being "insecure"- this is just being honest with myself as to the realities of where I as the subsistence farmer fit into the society. now maybe I marry a rich woman but this is an exceptional, rare sort of thing and not the general norm.

Clearly the men of old like the Quraish didn’t think like that and the idea of it being the nature of a man to dislike a woman for having any material advantages goes against the Hadith.

I didn't say the man actively dislikes the woman for being more "successful". but anyways, even in that society I don't think it was the norm for the woman to make more money than her husband.

The point about the millionaire wife. Well, that’s the thing you’re not put off by it though, does that mean that you’re abnormal for a man?

I kind of am put off by it but I'm willing to overlook that to become rich overnight. but that kind of scenario is an exception and norm.

No, it isn’t norm, you’re right, but we are talking about men being put off by a woman having any sort of material advantages like intelligence, wealth and maybe even lineage. The OP didn’t mention anything about being rich. Im sure she’s doing well, comfortable but still average and her mental health has improved, yet some men need her to be in a weak state to still feel like a man which is why i think it’s strange.

I mean it's just the norm that as the woman moves up the social ladder there's less men for her to choose from. we can fixate on comparatively rare cases such my future marriage and lucrative divorce to a female millionaire insha'Allah or we can just be real about the norms of basically every society ever.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I know this isn't really super-scientific here but even in my semi-joking fantasy of marrying a female millionaire... the woman is basically on her deathbed or I divorce her after like a week... women genuinely find the fantasy of a "mysterious billionaire" to be romantic or something.... in my marrying-a-female-millionaire pretend scenario.... I don't find anything exciting about it in a romantic way.... I literally just want to take her money and then marry an ordinary girl.... but a woman can genuinely find the "mysterious millionaire" attractive... anyways, while I'm doing a rare fiction post... I divorce her or I pull the plug from her medical equipment.... and then I become a billionaire cocaine kingpin.... with a car that is equipped with flamethrowers... and it looks like an ordinary car.... but I press a button and it turns into the batmobile... that's what I've got so far

 

[Angelina]

I don't know what teenage girls dream about but.... I can't imagine young women are dreaming about "wow, I'd really like some guy who is my exact equal in height and income".... I think the norm in every society ever is that the man makes more money. no, I don't most marriages in any society ever were marriages where the two were exact equal in social status. I think in every society ever, in the majority of cases the man made more money and was higher in social status.

Mostly was. This isn’t about a teenage fantasy about actual marriage patterns in history. Wealthy men from well known lineages entered arranged marriages with the daughters of men who were also rather wealthy. That is a fact. You can research it. Marriages were not about love walal.

and even if we're talking about elites who didn't want to marry some random village girl... they could go for a woman who was somewhat lower in status... but a woman would tend to seek to marry up... it could be a woman marries her exact social equal but the overall tendency is the man being higher in status as a general society-wide tendency

We are talking about historical facts here and not about what ‘they could do’ but what they did do. They married women from wealthy families. Marriages were arranged. Fathers would marry their sons and daughters to that of the children of men who were of a similar social standing. Even in Somali culture for instance. We prioritize tribe. Even for men marrying a woman who is seen as a lesser tribe (unfortunately) would be discouraged.

look why should we lie and pretend things aren't the way they are? if I'm a subsistence farmer, it's probably not the best idea for me to try to get married to a female lawyer. let's be honest. this is regardless of whether we live in 2023 or 1523.

I agree which is why I said, that historically people married their social equals. We both agree.

men tend to go for women who are less "successful" just as women do the opposite. this just is what it is, I'm just reporting the news, I didn't make it.

it's very natural that a man would not go for a woman who is more intelligent than him. I think I would die alone before I married a woman who was the female equivalent of Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah. How am I supposed to be the leader if the woman is way superior to me intellectually? She should marry a guy who is suitable in that department.

Why wouldn’t she listen to you if you ask her do things that are Islamically sound and reasonable? How would that impact your marriage? What advise would you give an intelligent woman? To act dumb?

You’re shooting yourself in the foot as peoples intelligence varies anyways. He might be amazing at memorizing and deduction, but you could be smarter than her when it comes to street smarts and common sense ect. Things aren’t black and white and to be frank in life there are things that your wife might be better than you than.

As for marrying a woman with mental health issues.... well... I think it would be kind of weird if you specifically went only for women who have those kinds of issues. but a lot of women deal with things like anxiety and that sort of thing. but as weird as it may seem, a guy going for a woman who has those sort of issues is consistent with the inherent male tendency of going for a woman who is less "successful".

Lol Omar, you’re trolling me. I can’t take that point serious. At this point, let’s add physical health issues as well. At least she is also less succesful with regards to her having better health. That’s a ridiculous point which adds to my point that a lot of is motivated by intimidation and straight up insecurity. Even a woman’s mental health is a threat.

also, I want to mention something. One time I talked to a guy about a deal and I gave him a contract to sign on behalf of the company I was with. his wife had to give involved because it turned out he was illiterate. now... if you are illiterate and your wife was for example... super highly educated.... how would that work? how are you going to be the authority if that's the case? I know Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was illiterate but I'm just talking in general.

That’s an extreme case though. A lot of men are being intimidated by women who aren’t even that more educated than them. The idea of a woman having any advantages is an issue for them and that isn’t sane behavior. There are things that your wife might be better than you than and things you’re better than her than. Every blessing and talent of a woman shouldn’t a threat and that is my point.

 

[Angelina]

I know this isn't really super-scientific here but even in my semi-joking fantasy of marrying a female millionaire... the woman is basically on her deathbed or I divorce her after like a week... women genuinely find the fantasy of a "mysterious billionaire" to be romantic or something.... in my marrying-a-female-millionaire pretend scenario.... I don't find anything exciting about it in a romantic way.... I literally just want to take her money and then marry an ordinary girl.... but a woman can genuinely find the "mysterious millionaire" attractive... anyways, while I'm doing a rare fiction post... I divorce her or I pull the plug from her medical equipment.... and then I become a billionaire cocaine kingpin.... with a car that is equipped with flamethrowers... and it looks like an ordinary car.... but I press a button and it turns into the batmobile... that's what I've got so far

Genuine question. If your wife was to inherit millions, would that change the dynamic of your relationship?

 

[Basra]

Mostly was. This isn’t about a teenage fantasy about actual marriage patterns in history. Wealthy men from well known lineages entered arranged marriages with the daughters of men who were also rather wealthy. That is a fact. You can research it. Marriages were not about love walal.

We are talking about historical facts here and not about what ‘they could do’ but what they did do. They married women from wealthy families. Marriages were arranged. Fathers would marry their sons and daughters to that of the children of men who were of a similar social standing. Even in Somali culture for instance. We prioritize tribe. Even for men marrying a woman who is seen as a lesser tribe (unfortunately) would be discouraged.

I agree which is why I said, that historically people married their social equals. We both agree.

Why wouldn’t she listen to you if you ask her do things that are Islamically sound and reasonable? How would that impact your marriage? What advise would you give an intelligent woman? To act dumb?

You’re shooting yourself in the foot as peoples intelligence varies anyways. He might be amazing at memorizing and deduction, but you could be smarter than her when it comes to street smarts and common sense ect. Things aren’t black and white and to be frank in life there are things that your wife might be better than you than.


Lol Omar, you’re trolling me. I can’t take that point serious. At this point, let’s add physical health issues as well. At least she is also less succesful with regards to her having better health. That’s a ridiculous point which adds to my point that a lot of is motivated by intimidation and straight up insecurity. Even a woman’s mental health is a threat.


That’s an extreme case though. A lot of men are being intimidated by women who aren’t even that more educated than them. The idea of a woman having any advantages is an issue for them and that isn’t sane behavior. There are things that your wife might be better than you than and things you’re better than her than. Every blessing and talent of a woman shouldn’t a threat and that is my point.

angelina i support your historical facts on rich families marrying each other!

 

[Angelina]

I am not convinced of your sharh of this hadith. it is the general nature of men to want a woman who makes more money?????? yes, it happens at times but the hadith doesn't say anything it being the general nature of men.

Women didn’t make more more than men in those days. The woman was usually the daughter of a rich man and had social prestige along with wealth. That was sought after by men. Very different world and context.

no, I didn't say a man actively dislikes a woman who is more "successful". a man tends to go for a woman who is less "successful". if I'm a subsistence farmer I want a woman who is lower on the social ladder. like I said, as the subsistence farmer, I don't want to go for a female lawyer. this has nothing to do with being "insecure"- this is just being honest with myself as to the realities of where I as the subsistence farmer fit into the society. now maybe I marry a rich woman but this is an exceptional, rare sort of thing and not the general norm.

That is an extreme difference. We are talking about men who might not be much different from the lawyer, preferring women who much lower down. Also, call it whatever but it’s insecurity especially when things like intelligence comes into the picture. Intelligence is a blessing from Allah and if you’re going to reject someone for having that it’s because you feel you’re not smart enough. That is clear intimidation. A confident man knows he most likely has other traits that are better than his bride to be that he could utilize.

I didn't say the man actively dislikes the woman for being more "successful". but anyways, even in that society I don't think it was the norm for the woman to make more money than her husband.

I agree. I never said that.

I kind of am put off by it but I'm willing to overlook that to become rich overnight. but that kind of scenario is an exception and norm.



I mean it's just the norm that as the woman moves up the social ladder there's less men for her to choose from. we can fixate on comparatively rare cases such my future marriage and lucrative divorce to a female millionaire insha'Allah or we can just be real about the norms of basically every society ever.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Lol Omar, you’re trolling me. I can’t take that point serious. At this point, let’s add physical health issues as well. At least she is also less succesful with regards to her having better health. That’s a ridiculous point which adds to my point that a lot of is motivated by intimidation and straight up insecurity. Even a woman’s mental health is a threat.

I'm not trolling. It makes sense given the nature of men that men would go for women who have those sort of issues even if it seems weird. I personally... I mean... many women have anxiety or whatever and I wouldn't really care if a woman did.... but I do think it's kind of weird if you specifically, intentionally go for women who have those kinds of issues. but from OP's actual experience, it is a real thing and it's not surprising given the nature of men.

That’s an extreme case though. A lot of men are being intimidated by women who aren’t even that more educated than them. The idea of a woman having any advantages is an issue for them and that isn’t sane behavior. There are things that your wife might be better than you than and things you’re better than her than. Every blessing and talent of a woman shouldn’t a threat and that is my point.

I mean... the woman naturally goes for a guy that's taller and makes more money. and the guy is the reverse.

"Every blessing and talent of a woman shouldn’t a threat and that is my point."

maybe this would be nice-sounding slogan on a poster or something. but the reality is if the woman is the female Warren Buffett or the female Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah, she should probably go for her male counterpart. whereas her male counterpart likely could do fine with a woman who is nowhere near his equal. and the female Warren Buffett is going to likely have limited options.

all this is just reality and the way it is.

you can point to exceptions such as my future millionaire wife insha'Allah... but the general tendency is the woman goes for a guy who is more "successful" and the guy does the opposite. there's no getting around this. there are exceptions but the general tendency is the general tendency.

 

[Omar del Sur]

another thing is the whole line of argument I am seeing seems to be shaming men on what it is men like.... people can like whatever it is they like.... it is silly to try to say people are wrong for liking whatever it is they like (assuming it isn't something weird or haraam)... men and women can like whatever it is they like and they can dislike whatever it is they dislike...

and it's kind of pointless to try to say "stop liking or disliking this particular thing".... can you really tell men or women what is they should find attractive or unattractive and then really think that's going to work? people like what they like, it just is what it is and it's kind of crazy to think you can tell them what to find attractive or not attractive... "how dare you not find this particular type attractive?".... is that really going to work? I really doubt it. you can hate the opposite sex all you want and bash them for their preferences but you can't control what it is they're into.

 

[Angelina]

another thing is the whole line of argument I am seeing seems to be shaming men on what it is men like.... people can like whatever it is they like.... it is silly to try to say people are wrong for liking whatever it is they like (assuming it isn't something weird or haraam)... men and women can like whatever it is they like and they can dislike whatever it is they dislike...

and it's kind of pointless to try to say "stop liking or disliking this particular thing".... can you really tell men or women what is they should find attractive or unattractive and then really think that's going to work? people like what they like, it just is what it is and it's kind of crazy to think you can tell them what to find attractive or not attractive... "how dare you not find this particular type attractive?".... is that really going to work? I really doubt it. you can hate the opposite sex all you want and bash them for their preferences but you can't control what it is they're into

You’re right but after a while some of these preferences do become ridiculous. Like a 5’4 woman rejecting a man for being 5’10. Or a woman that makes 100k rejecting a man for making 95k. It’s silly. Same with a man being intimidated by a woman’s intelligence ect.

 

[AbrahamFreedom]

You're dealing with older men now. Their expectations have changed due to their life experiences and of those close to them. You're going to have to prove to them you'll make their life easier and marrying you is worth it for them. They're stretching out the talking stage to make sure you will be a good wife and mother and will give them peace of mind. These were not considerations when they were younger; just lust/love.

 

[Omar del Sur]

You’re right but after a while some of these preferences do become ridiculous. Like a 5’4 woman rejecting a man for being 5’10. Or a woman that makes 100k rejecting a man for making 95k. It’s silly. Same with a man being intimidated by a woman’s intelligence ect.

I agree that all the examples you gave are silly but not the one about the man being sort of off-put by the woman's intelligence.

I think women are the opposite. If a woman thinks a guy is smart, I think women tend to find that attractive.

Now a very intelligent guy- I think he'll be pretty happy if the woman is intelligent.

just like most women want a taller guy- I think most men would prefer a shorter woman. I think intelligence is the same way. some men are simply.... not particularly gifted in that area. so a man who isn't very intelligent, he comes across a woman who is very intelligent- it's off-putting, naturally, I think.

a woman who isn't very intelligent comes across a man is very intelligent- she finds this impressive! maybe she thinks "wow he's so smart". so I think intelligence works the same way as height. I think a woman being intelligent is praiseworthy. I think naturally men who are lower than her in intelligence will be off-put, maybe rightfully so. I just think she should go for an intelligent man. won't both parties be happier with an intelligent partner? I don't think a highly intelligent man wants an unintelligent woman. I think he'll get bored.

 

[Angelina]

I agree that all the examples you gave are silly but not the one about the man being sort of off-put by the woman's intelligence.

I think women are the opposite. If a woman thinks a guy is smart, I think women tend to find that attractive.

Now a very intelligent guy- I think he'll be pretty happy if the woman is intelligent.

just like most women want a taller guy- I think most men would prefer a shorter woman. I think intelligence is the same way. some men are simply.... not particularly gifted in that area. so a man who isn't very intelligent, he comes across a woman who is very intelligent- it's off-putting, naturally, I think.

It comes from a place of being intimidated. Hence your right. An intelligent man already doesn’t feel threatened as he is smart himself. But to add, Intelligence isn’t the same as height. Biologically men on average are taller and stronger. Intelligence is something that you find in humans regardless of gender and crazily enough, intelligence is inherited especially from the mother, therefore as a man you must be rather silly to not want the best for your children. Intelligent men tend to have intelligent mothers.

a woman who isn't very intelligent comes across a man is very intelligent- she finds this impressive! maybe she thinks "wow he's so smart". so I think intelligence works the same way as height. I think a woman being intelligent is praiseworthy. I think naturally men who are lower than her in intelligence will be off-put, maybe rightfully so.

No, because intelligence isn’t the same as height which is usually gender based. Men on average are taller and stronger.

Also, as a man wanting intelligent sons is natural. That will be difficult if the wife isn’t smart or the type that encourages learning. Also in every culture and society intelligence is praised in BOTH a genders. It isn’t gendered like that of height. Even height, women prefer taller men but the idea of men preferring shorter women is cultural. Ask the Somalis here. Traditionally, tall women are seen as sign of beauty in Somali culture and a shorter man will still try and be with a taller woman. Hence, even that we can’t say is biological.

I just think she should go for an intelligent man. won't both parties be happier with an intelligent partner? I don't think a highly intelligent man wants an unintelligent woman. I think he'll get bored.

Yes, he would be very bored. Contrary to popular belief. The most succesful and richest of men are married to women who at least have degrees and side projects. Even the ones that don’t have degrees ect tend to have a rep of being smart and resourceful. Obviously the wives aren’t as successful as the men but they’re a successful women by every metric and surpasses the average man in many ways.

 

[Omar del Sur]

It comes from a place of being intimidated. Hence your right. An intelligent man already doesn’t feel threatened as he is smart himself. But to add, Intelligence isn’t the same as height. Biologically men on average are taller and stronger. Intelligence is something that you find in humans regardless of gender and crazily enough, intelligence is inherited especially from the mother, therefore as a man you must be rather silly to not want the best for your children. Intelligent men tend to have intelligent mothers.


No, because intelligence isn’t the same as height which is usually gender based. Men on average are taller and stronger.

Also, as a man wanting intelligent sons is natural. That will be difficult if the wife isn’t smart or the type that encourages learning. Also in every culture and society intelligence is praised in BOTH a genders. It isn’t gendered like that of height. Even height, women prefer taller men but the idea of men preferring shorter women is cultural. Ask the Somalis here. Traditionally, tall women are seen as sign of beauty in Somali culture and a shorter man will still try and be with a taller woman. Hence, even that we can’t say is biological.



Yes, he would be very bored. Contrary to popular belief. The most succesful and richest of men are married to women who at least have degrees and side projects. Even the ones that don’t have degrees ect tend to have a rep of being smart and resourceful. Obviously the wives aren’t as successful as the men but they’re a successful women by every metric and surpasses the average man in many ways.

I think the general rule is women would go for a man who is taller and makes more money.
And the reverse for the males, the man would generally go for a woman who is shorter and makes less money.

And I think intelligence would work like height.

also, just as a sidenote... I don't think most of the men here would like a woman who is taller than them... but even there was a culture of people that wasn't in line with these sort of general tendencies, this exception wouldn't disprove the general tendencies....

anyways, intelligence.... if a woman perceives a man as being more intelligent, I think women would tend to find this attractive. and a man would tend to not want a woman who is more intelligent than him.

these I think are the general tendencies and I think these are natural. the man is supposed to be the leader, he is supposed to wear the pants. how does it make sense for him to wear the pants if his wife is smarter than him? if he's an idiot and she's a genius, how can it make sense for him to be in charge? so she should marry someone who makes sense for her in terms of his intellect. that is my view.

edit: just to be clear I think it's fine if the man and woman are both very intelligent or around the same in that area... but if the woman is way more intelligent than the man, I question whether this is a good idea in general... how is she supposed to respect him as a leader if she's way more intelligent than him?

 

[Angelina]

I think the general rule is women would go for a man who is taller and makes more money.
And the reverse for the males, the man would generally go for a woman who is shorter and makes less money.

And I think intelligence would work like height.

also, just as a sidenote... I don't think most of the men here would like a woman who is taller than them... but even there was a culture of people that wasn't in line with these sort of general tendencies, this exception wouldn't disprove the general tendencies....

I wouldn’t call it an exception as I’m Somali and I’m telling you a traditional aspect our culture. The guys here wouldn’t as they’re Westernised. In the West, the idea of man having a taller wife is seen as emasculating.
With Somalis like my father and grandparents generation, they didn’t care as they saw men as being stronger regardless if they’re shorter or taller. Tall women were simply seen as gorgeous and even a short man would want one.

these I think are the general tendencies and I think these are natural. the man is supposed to be the leader, he is supposed to wear the pants. how does it make sense for him to wear the pants if his wife is smarter than him?

I’m not talking about difference in extremes. Also intelligence doesn’t work that way. A man could maybe more street smart and have more common sense, but a woman may be more academically educated.

Also, in marriages, whilst the wife is meant to obey the husband, usually the man should leave the general running and domain to his wife if they have a traditional relationship. This was advice Imam Ahmed gave his son meaning leaving the everyday decisions to the wife and the major important ones to him that impact the safety and finances ect.

Here is what he said:

5. Indeed, the house is under the sovereignty of the woman. While she remains therein, she feels that she is sitting upon her throne, and that she is the chief of the house. Stay clear of destroying this kingdom of hers and do not ever attempt to dethrone her, otherwise you will be trying to snatch her sovereignty. A king gets most angry at he who tries to strip him of his authority, even if he portrays to show something else.

Marriage Advices - Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal | Spiritual Light

spirituallight.co.za

if he's an idiot and she's a genius, how can it make sense for him to be in charge? so she should marry someone who makes sense for her in terms of his intellect. that is my view.

You are looking and talking in extremes. If we look in extremes you are right and such a relationship wouldn’t even work as the wife wouldn’t respect him.

Real life isn’t extremes though.

 

[hippy60]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Easier to control someone who is struggling , alot of men want that not all .

Also once you are doing your thing making good money a lot of men fear that fear a independent women .