Should child marriage be banned in Somalia?
- Thread starter TekNiKo
- Start date
Define who is considered a child
A child islamically is someone that is below the age of puberty. However, it is difficult to identify that without invading privacy.
I would put a moratorium on marriages until you finish school.
If a couple wants to get married prior to one or both finishing school, they should apply to a government body that will assess their application.
They will give consent to the government to assess their suitability to be married and whether it is forced or not.
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This isn't just his argument. What he outlined is a well known one in fiqh and islamqa.org mentions the exact same thing. It's called Law known as al-Siyasah al-Shar’iyyah. You conveniently skipped that didn't you?
This isn't his mere view. This is also outlined by Shafi scholars on: https://islamqa.org/shafii/seekersguidance-shafii/169425/marriage-with-a-minor/
Actually read before arguing.
This isn't ijtihad. I can't make ijtihad as i'm a mere laymen. This is actually the views of many scholars and it is a well known concept within fiqh.
This is where your argument falls apart, Mehr is wajib. You cannot limit or overrule the wajib and this is the major issue of this conversation. People don't know the difference between wajib and Mubah. Perfect example as to how ignorant we are of fiqh. This includes me as well.
Yes, the links talks about that as well us the concept of al-Siyasah al-Shar’iyyah. The scholar notes which you refused to acknowledge:
'Governments are allowed to establish a law that sees to the welfare of its citizens. Citizens who fail to uphold this law, may not be held accountable in the court of Allah, but may be punished accordingly by the government. These concepts are well established under the branch of our Sacred Law known as al-Siyasah al-Shar’iyyah.'
According to this scholar on Islamqa.org disallowing child marriages can be established throgh the well known concepts of al-Siyasah al-Shar’iyyah, it isn't new idea and this isn't the mere viee of Qadhi. Qadhi didn't say anything remotely progressive in that regard.
Yes, good point. I like your attitude. May Allah make learn from that wisdom.
Well we don't disagree then. I am saying let us strengthen government/Islamic institutions.
But what societal attribute lead to people marrying pubescent children through force as opposed to the contrary?
*You are not asking this to be temporarly restricted, you are asking this to be permanetly made illegal
*In the video you posted YQ stated Umar ra only banned this for his close sahabas i.e role-models for their newly conquered Christian lands. Their is a clear reason as to why their is a temporary ban whereas you have a fundamental moral objection to this
*Umar Ra was a close sahaba of the Prophet whereas we are just average Muslims joe schlmos, there are clear regulations that must be followed when making itjihaad.
But let's assume all these points are bogus and I'm wrong, what exactly is stopping this justification of banning pubescent marriages from leading to a protestant-like reformation of Islam?
Whether Islam undergoes a Protestant-like reformation depends on much bigger factors than what Somalia does.
We are a small cog in the Islamic world that even if we follow the strictest interpretation of the salaf, Islam can still undergo a reformation.
We are barely 1% of the global Muslim population.
I highly doubt Islam’s future depends on what we as a society decide, especially in a topic as obscure as forced marriages.
Essentially, your argument has no teeth.
What @Periplus is advocating for already happens in Muslim countries in the Gulf.
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This is actually not a one off and it isn't ijtihad but an Islamic concept in fiqh called al-Siyasah al-Shar’iyyah. Btw, making the Mubah disallowed is found all through Islamic history. Example triple talaq at once and ect.
The scholar talks about it in this fatwa in detail which is about the exact topic. I can't be bothered to go back and forth. Since i'm a layman, you can argue with and write a letter to Islamqa.org and Qadhi.
'Governments are allowed to establish a law that sees to the welfare of its citizens. Citizens who fail to uphold this law, may not be held accountable in the court of Allah, but may be punished accordingly by the government. These concepts are well established under the branch of our Sacred Law known as al-Siyasah al-Shar’iyyah.'
Marriage With a Minor. - IslamQA
Answered by Shaykh Abdurragmaan Khan Question: Assalam alaykum, An individual shared the following opinions with me (see below). I had been taught that the minimum conditions for intercourse were (i)
islamqa.org
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Garaad diinle
I was taken back by the exesive praise you wrote about yasir al qadhi that i didn't notice or pay attention to the al-siyasah al-shar'yyah. What can is say humans are fallible after all.
The link didn't say limiting tashric or al-siyasah al-shar'yyah. The title was about marriage which wasn't my concerns and it's why i didn't bother reading it i think it's quite obvious from what i wrote where my priorities lay.
Here where you didn't get what i meant by that. You were bringing up Omar al-khatab رضي الله عنه and i shared an example of his human nature or his fallibility. Meher is wajib but is expensive meher mubah or wajib. In the riwaya omar al-khatab رضي الله عنه thought it was okay to rule in favour of a less expensive meher not forbidding mehr and someone corrected him. There are other examples of sahaba with their own rulings that many of us would not even consider using. For example one sahabi believes that saving money is haram. Saving isn't wajib and it's mubah or halal. There are other examples of sahaba having rulings of thing that are not wajib for one reason or another. Imagian if no one was allowed to save money.
I read the link you posted and it's really informative shame i didn't read it earlier. That being said i've yet to see a valid dalil on restricting the halal or mubah. There were no example from the sunnah. What i go by as a rule of thumb is what shaykh al islam ibn Taymiyah said about 'urf. You don't forbid what allah made halal and the asal is halal if there is no clear ruling from the quran or sunnah.
وأمَّا العادات فهي ما اعتاده النَّاس في دنياهم مما يحتاجون إليه ؛ والأصل فيها عدم الحظر ؛ فلا يحظر منه إلا ما حظره الله سبحانه وتعالى … والعادات الأصل فيها العفو ؛ فلا يحظر منها إلا ما حرَّمه وإلا لدخلنا في قول الله تعالى : {قل أرأيتم ما أنزل الله لكم من رزق فجعلتم منه حراما وحلالا}
Have you studied the deen?
There are certain rules in Islam that were abrogated or introduced later due to the fact that they cause bigger harm.
You can make something permissible not allowed in your country if the permissible thing causes alot of harm, I can ban kfc in my country because its unhealthy even though its permissible to eat.
The high mehr example you used is Umar ibnul khattab making something that was a given right as something haram which he was corrected on, it would not have caused problems in society.
You are allowed to make rulings preventing people form doing something as long as goes under certain conditions
AN example would be the changing in the triple Talaq ruling, have you heard of that?
Garaad diinle
As a muslim i only go by dalil. If you have dalil i will take it if you don't well i simply won't accepted it. Just like our sister here said we are laymen so i'm sure there are these that know better but because i'm a layman i must be careful of what i accept and what i don't.
He is talking about the tripple talaq ruling being changed. Its well known. Ibn Taymiyyah was even arrested for disagreeing that a man can divorce his wife three times on the spot. Read up on it.
It was Omar RA that changed it:
Abu Bakr and the first two years of ‘Umar’s caliphate, a threefold divorce was counted as one. Then ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: People have become hasty in a matter in which they should take their time. I am thinking of holding them to it. So he made it binding upon them.
@Garaad diinle
Have you read the biography of Umar ibnul khattab?
Garaad diinle
Yes i read it but can't say if it was a detailed biography why?
Another example is free mixing, you would find it very very dificult to find a verse in Quran or hadith with says directly free mixing is haram. I would challenge yout o fin one, in fact its been made haram as the scholars have deduced it leads to zina, the definition of free mixing and how it works is also up to the scholars, we collected ahadeeth and Quran and the aathar of the salaf and the sahaaba and we conclude on what free mixing is and why it is haram
In actual fact free mxiing in and within itself is not haram, whatever a ruler decides to be not allowed in terms of free mixing is his own informed opinion
There are many things he didn't allow his people to do which are permissible, because it would lead to a bigger harm
You can at least acknowledge that this ideological framework has the potential to lead to mass reformation
Garaad diinle
Walaal what are you saying. We have the sunnah talking about a mehram. Men and women don't mix in the salat. There are hadith of ghadh al-basar not shaking hands do i need to say more?
Nope, that doesn't say anything about free mixing, one of them is seclusion, one of them is only in the mosque, and one of them is just to do with lowering gaze, nowhere does it say anyting about free mixing
In fact when you go out everyday you have to free mix, if freemixing was haram in and within itself you wouldn't be allowed to go outside,
