Should child marriage be banned in Somalia?

[Qeelbax]

You are 100% right and anyone who says a government cannot ban something permissible knows nothing about Islam.
In fact you can ban something mustahab if it leads to negative consequences.

 

[Qeelbax]

Yes i am thankful that i don't argue day and night to justify marrying girls under 18 like you.

Also like we discussed in the other thread, don't shit on western culture while you live in the west. Hypocrisy is a big no no in Islam you should know that.

War abaha cun, nobody is doing that. You love the west too much.

 

[Qeelbax]

Not just that as well
Umar Ibn khattab (RA) limited cousin marriage in fact he was pushing the men and the women to marry outside their tribe or race.

Khaleeji Arabs:

 

[Qeelbax]

That xalimo was a 2/10, you guys are acc blind, have you ever seen a pretty women in your life? it is like going to a chicken shop and comparing their chicken with a five star michellen resturaunt which serves chicken with a crust and lemo butter sauce underneath the skin perfectly cooked. You guys must refresh your appetites.
If you want to know what I think a pretty xalimo looks like, search up rayan xasan on instagram

Rayan Xasan is pretty af but that girl is also pretty, 2/10 is very insulting. She is minimum a 5/10, which is just average. Personally me and most people would say she's at least a 6.5/10.

 

[Qeelbax]

what was the age of the groom?


Somali culture needs to either align itself with Islamic law (Gods laws) or secular law (Human law). Because as things stand we have poor Africans, who are gaalo teaching us the importance of human rights. And we have the audacity to call ourselves Muslims , what a shame.

It’s not crazy it’s true that why I support such marriages, where the age difference is between minimum 5 years and max 25 years. Anything beyond that, a man is either marrying for vanity or hiring his future nurse.

minimum 5 years? Why don't you like ones that are the same age or 4 years older?

 

[Qeelbax]

A man pushing 40 is actually in is peak prime, that’s if he looks after his health.

oh hell nah, y'all pushing it.

 

[Lebron James]

You love the west too much.

Damn right I do

 

[Hamzza]

@Hamzza is always mentioning martial rape, he's a creep authubillah. Do want to rape your wife? without anyone thinking you're sick animal? Akhassssss.

My wife is stronger than me

 

[jemappelle]

Rayan Xasan is pretty af but that girl is also pretty, 2/10 is very insulting. She is minimum a 5/10, which is just average. Personally me and most people would say she's at least a 6.5/10.

OK but the problem is your a women. I am not trying to offend the girl, but I would personally give her a 2/10, she is not attractive to me, and without makeup even less attractice, idk whats wrong with this forum, you guys need to up your visual ability to notice good facial structure.

 

[jemappelle]

Damn right I do

You love western morals than Islamic ones

 

[bidenkulaha]

It’s a very sick practice indeed. Especially in this day and age.

Once the Somali government’s institutions build we will enforce the ban on it

 

[Hamzza]

Once the Somali government’s institutions build we will enforce the ban on it

Do you work for the government? Since Gurguurte won that election selection you are moving like something else.

 

[Qeelbax]

OK but the problem is your a women. I am not trying to offend the girl, but I would personally give her a 2/10, she is not attractive to me, and without makeup even less attractice, idk whats wrong with this forum, you guys need to up your visual ability to notice good facial structure.

 

[jemappelle]

how r u confused?

 

[Dualke]

What @Periplus is advocating for already happens in Muslim countries in the Gulf.

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This is actually not a one off and it isn't ijtihad but an Islamic concept in fiqh called al-Siyasah al-Shar’iyyah. Btw, making the Mubah disallowed is found all through Islamic history. Example triple talaq at once and ect.

The scholar talks about it in this fatwa in detail which is about the exact topic. I can't be bothered to go back and forth. Since i'm a layman, you can argue with and write a letter to Islamqa.org and Qadhi.

'Governments are allowed to establish a law that sees to the welfare of its citizens. Citizens who fail to uphold this law, may not be held accountable in the court of Allah, but may be punished accordingly by the government. These concepts are well established under the branch of our Sacred Law known as al-Siyasah al-Shar’iyyah.'

Marriage With a Minor. - IslamQA

Answered by Shaykh Abdurragmaan Khan Question: Assalam alaykum, An individual shared the following opinions with me (see below). I had been taught that the minimum conditions for intercourse were (i)

islamqa.org

Informative but has nothing to do with my point, why do you insist on evading it?

 

[Kane]

In real life the vast majority are married to men who are only 2-7 years. In society only less than 8% are married to man who are more than ten years. So what are you seeing? Most SomAli girls in the West are overwhelmingly married to Abdis who are a similar age to them. Maybe at most 5 years older. So who are you seeing? Fobs? They are the ones with the bigger age gaps and studies show that in Eastern societies with poverty that is when average age gap is higher.

You’re delusional. When the vast majority are married to men who are a similar age group and men themselves are telling you they have a preference for men that are ten years younger, then you really need to leave your home and touch grass



Women overwhelmingly prefer men who are only 2-7 years. You don’t care for studies nor do you care for what women think. That is a form of delusion then. Those studies show that more 93% of women in the UK, America and the tbh most countries are married to men who are less than ten years older.

All the girls I know are married to men less than ten years older. Ask any girl here her preference.



I’m not. It is a fact that men’s sperm
Quality reduces as they age. it’s not about being like women. You’re discounting basic science and are now thinking with your emotions.

Sperm wise no. You’re pushing mere opinion here. A man pushing 40 is not in his peak, only financially. You’re being delusional here. Example, after 37 footballers need to retire as despite being very healthy, strength, being fast ect they simply can’t compete with a 25 yr old.

Biology doesn’t give a shit about social norms or that men accumulate wealth later in life. Your sperm, looks and strength will go downhill.


No sperm wise it isn’t not at all. Read the literature on it. Even if he takes care of his health that is still not the case. 35 is when their sperm quality reduces and men who are 40+ Are more likely to produce kids with autism than younger men.

I have done plenty of research on this matter and there is no conclusive evidence.
To support your claim, but there is anecdotal evidence to support the ever growing TRT industry.

50 years ago men age 65 had more testosterone then men in their mid 20’s today, that’s why sperm quality has gone down.

in the old days men ate a high fat diet and most jobs were physical.

In short a man can always increase his testosterone, which will improve his semen quality unlike females. Again my condolences love.

 

[anonimo]

The last part. We’re talking about a Muslim
Society here. Can you truly say it’s haram for A Muslim society to create a limit of age for the well being of young Muslim girls? Why are you okay with limiting the education of young girls in which there is a clear benefit? Also, before you argue please note that child marriage is merely permissible and that classical scholars were of the opinion that it is better for fathers not to marry their daughters off at a young age. Also, Omar RA also recommend for fathers not to marry daughters to men that are significantly older. Yet, you and the other posters are behaving as though it’s a pillar in Islam. Why?

Leaving the corruption to the side or whatever. The comparison is very much similar. Omar RA disallowed under his reign marriages to Jews and Christians and that is mentioned in the Quran and it is Mubah. Child marriage isn’t even explicitly mentioned in the Quran, yet you’re opposed to it being disallowed. Pragmatism with regards to the divorce laws ect is well known as well.

My point is, let’s think about what benefits young girls instead of looking at it as Western vs non Western.

Doesn't the Iddah Ayah reference child marriage? Does it not refer to the waiting period for a young wife who has not reached the age of menstruation? It does not spell it out in capital letters but it is still relatively Black and White.

If her husband divorces her before consummating marriage with her, then there is no ‘Iddah (i.e. waiting period) and thus she is not included in that verse; rather, she is included in the saying of Allaah The Almighty (which means): {O You who have believed, when you marry believing women and then divorce them before you have touched them, then there is not for you any waiting period to count concerning them. So provide for them and give them a gracious release.}[Quran 33:49]

www.islamweb.net/amp/en/fatwa/88089/

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds; and may His blessings and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad and upon all his Family and Companions.

Getting married at an early age is something that is confirmed by the book of Allah, the Sunnah of his Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam), the consensus of the scholars and the actions of the companions, and the Muslims who came after them.

Moreover, the interest of Shariah proves it. So the claim that this was abrogated is not correct. And the Hadith did not include that meaning; it just states that a virgin woman is not to be married until consulted.

The evidence from the Qur'an is:

1. The saying of Allah: "And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]". (At-Talaq 65:4)

So, Allah set rulings of marriage, divorce and waiting period for the women who have not yet had menses, i.e. the young girls.

The Iddah (waiting period) does not take place except after marriage.

Regarding scholars stating that it is better for fathers not to marry their daughters young, what scholars are you referencing? I'm curious to know because, apart from Shafii, what I have come across suggests they had no issues with child marriage depending on the physique of a child bride.

Marrying a young girl before she reaches the age of adolescence is permitted in sharee’ah; indeed it was narrated that there was scholarly consensus on this point.

(a)Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the ‘Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their ‘Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise”

[al-Talaaq 65:4]

In this verse we see that Allaah has made the ‘iddah in the case of divorce of a girl who does not have periods – because she is young and has not yet reached puberty – three months. This clearly indicates that Allaah has made this a valid marriage.

(b)It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married her when she was six years old, he consummated the marriage with her when she was nine and she stayed with him for nine years.

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4840; Muslim, 1422)

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah when she was six years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim; Muslim says ‘seven years’)

The fact that it is permissible to marry a young girl does not mean that it is permissible to have intercourse with her; rather that should not be done until she is able for it. For that reason the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) delayed the consummation of his marriage to ‘Aa’ishah. Al-Nawawi said: With regard to the wedding-party of a young married girl at the time of consummating the marriage, if the husband and the guardian of the girl agree upon something that will not cause harm to the young girl, then that may be done. If they disagree, then Ahmad and Abu ‘Ubayd say that once a girl reaches the age of nine then the marriage may be consummated even without her consent, but that does not apply in the case of who is younger. Maalik, al-Shaafa’i and Abu Haneefah said: the marriage may be consummated when the girl is able for intercourse, which varies from one girl to another, so no age limit can be set. This is the correct view. There is nothing in the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah to set an age limit, or to forbid that in the case of a girl who is able for it before the age of nine, or to allow it in the case of a girl who is not able for it and has reached the age of nine. Al-Dawoodi said: ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) was reached physical maturity (at the time when her marriage was consummated).

Sharh Muslim, 9/206

It is preferable for a guardian not to marry off his daughter when she is still young unless there is a valid reason for that.

Al-Nawawi said:

It should be noted that al-Shaafa’i and his companions said: It is preferable for fathers and grandfathers not to marry off a virgin until she reaches the age of puberty and they ask her permission, lest she end up in a marriage that she dislikes. What they said does not go against the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah, because what they meant is that they should not marry her off before she reaches puberty if there is no obvious interest to be served that they fear will be missed out on if they delay it, as in the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah. In that case it is preferable to go ahead with the marriage because the father is enjoined to take care of his child’s interests and not to let a good opportunity slip away.

.
But let's assume all these points are bogus and I'm wrong, what exactly is stopping this justification of banning pubescent marriages from leading to a protestant-like reformation of Islam?

Omar RAH was a Sahabah and instituted that temporary ruling at a time of rapid social change due to conquest of non-Muslim territories. This resulted in the increased access to Levantine and North Iraqi women who were held in high regard because of their 'beauty'. The conquering Muslim men were flocking to marry them. As one of the Righteous Caliphs leading the nascent Muslim Umma, current Muslim in name rulers do not have the same religious authority as him regarding the Deen so cannot see it leading to a reform necessarily but it will create a situation where man made Civil Law has ascendancy over divine Quranic rulings. Established scholars do have religious authority though, the ones who speak up are in jail like the Saudi scholars who went against MBS's liberalisation of Saudi society. Btw, by 'established scholars', I ain't referring to the likes of Qadhi.

Nonetheless, settling an age restriction for marriage is not the first thing that Muslim rulers have done that goes against Quranic rulings in recent history so I don't get the fuss about it. The abolition of slavery in Muslims countries due to pressure from the West is a prime example of banning what is clearly Halal in the Qur'an. Other secular Muslim rulers have instituted Civil Laws which go against the Deen, Barre changing inheritance Laws so women would have the same rights as men during his Shuuci phase is an example close to home.

 

[jemappelle]

Omar RAH was a Sahabah and instituted that temporary ruling at a time of rapid social change due to conquest of non-Muslim territories. This resulted in the increased access to Levantine and North Iraqi women who were held in high regard because of their 'beauty'. The conquering Muslim men were flocking to marry them. As one of the Righteous Caliphs leading the nascent Muslim Umma, current Muslim in name rulers do not have the same religious authority as him regarding the Deen so cannot see it leading to a reform necessarily but it will create a situation where man made Civil Law has ascendancy over divine Quranic rulings. Established scholars do have religious authority though, the ones who speak up are in jail like the Saudi scholars who went against MBS's liberalisation of Saudi society. Btw, by 'established scholars', I ain't referring to the likes of Qadhi.

Nonetheless, settling an age restriction for marriage is not the first thing that Muslim rulers have done that goes against Quranic rulings in recent history so I don't get the fuss about it. The abolition of slavery in Muslims countries due to pressure from the West is a prime example of banning what is clearly Halal in the Qur'an. Other secular Muslim rulers have instituted Civil Laws which go against the Deen, Barre changing inheritance Laws so women would have the same rights as men during his Shuuci phase is an example close to home.

How is banning slavery unislamic?

 

[Dualke]

Doesn't the Iddah Ayah reference child marriage? Does it not refer to the waiting period for a young wife who has not reached the age of menstruation? It does not spell it out in capital letters but it is still relatively Black and White.




www.islamweb.net/amp/en/fatwa/88089/



Regarding scholars stating that it is better for fathers not to marry their daughters young, what scholars are you referencing? I'm curious to know because, apart from Shafii, what I have come across suggests they had no issues with child marriage depending on the physique of a child bride.




Omar RAH was a Sahabah and instituted that temporary ruling at a time of rapid social change due to conquest of non-Muslim territories. This resulted in the increased access to Levantine and North Iraqi women who were held in high regard because of their 'beauty'. The conquering Muslim men were flocking to marry them. As one of the Righteous Caliphs leading the nascent Muslim Umma, current Muslim in name rulers do not have the same religious authority as him regarding the Deen so cannot see it leading to a reform necessarily but it will create a situation where man made Civil Law has ascendancy over divine Quranic rulings. Established scholars do have religious authority though, the ones who speak up are in jail like the Saudi scholars who went against MBS's liberalisation of Saudi society. Btw, by 'established scholars', I ain't referring to the likes of Qadhi.

Nonetheless, settling an age restriction for marriage is not the first thing that Muslim rulers have done that goes against Quranic rulings in recent history so I don't get the fuss about it. The abolition of slavery in Muslims countries due to pressure from the West is a prime example of banning what is clearly Halal in the Qur'an. Other secular Muslim rulers have instituted Civil Laws which go against the Deen, Barre changing inheritance Laws so women would have the same rights as men during his Shuuci phase is an example close to home.

I don't have any particular "fuss" about child marriage specifically. Im just moreso annoyed how none of these people are even willing to acknowledge that they have reformist beliefs

 

[World]

Eh this argument only justifies the CAN and not the WHY. I'm more interested in what cultural changes took place during the middle east for Muslim men during the 7th century to marry young girls out of presumably just/morally acceptable reasons, whereas as you claimed Muslim men today marrying young girls due to unjust reasons

Not attacking your point or anything just curious

Just to let you know, the entire world prior to the 19th-20th world had no problem with that. It wasn’t the Muslim world.